We may have won something but, I don't like it!

[thegrindre]

I'm really against the FDA regulating the E-Cig as a tobacco thing!
We're not smoking tobacco!!! We're not smoking anything!!! There is no fire!!! There is no ash!!!
There is a heating element that vaporizes liquid!!!

I am totally against this action by the FDA!!!
And, I'm mad as he** about it!!!

OK, I'm off my soapbox, now.

Enjoy your vaping... I am...

Rick

 

[cliff5550]

Amen brother! You're preachin' to the choir.

 

[CapableVapable]

Well, it was going to be this or as a drug delivery system, so you pick your poison. I'm not terribly excited about the implications of this to come, but I knew it wouldn't simply continue to exist in a netherworld. Just ask online poker what happens when you don't embrace and push for regulation, even if it isn't entirely what you want. A lot of players were against the government regulating and completely legalizing it last year when it was up for debate, because they knew it would mean certain restrictions and new taxes, etc. And it failed. And now, four months later, the hammer came down and the top sites are gone for U.S. players. I would certainly rather see e-cigs go through the FDA than be criminalized.

 

[thegrindre]

OK, let's talk hypothetically.
So they shut down all the internet sales. That doesn't mean we can't still do business thru snail mail does it?
If we get on all the supplier mailing lists, I'm sure the suppliers will keep us as customers, won't they???

Rick

 

[Beez]

It is a matter of which is worst. There is no way in this country or any other the powers that be were going to let something with this much popularity and promise go without significant notice. There are a lot of bad angles to this choice, but there are simply fewer bad angles than there would be if they regulated it as a drug delivery device.

 

[AttyPops]

I agree that it isn't smoking. Nor is it tobacco. I look at it as HOW they are allowed to regulate it, not as WHAT it is. So, it falls under tobacco regulations, but it isn't tobacco.

 

[hairball]

OK, let's talk hypothetically.
So they shut down all the internet sales. That doesn't mean we can't still do business thru snail mail does it?
If we get on all the supplier mailing lists, I'm sure the suppliers will keep us as customers, won't they???

Rick

I honestly don't think that the internet sites will get shut down. The vendors will have to start applying taxes on what we buy. Too much revenue for our "wonderful" government to lose.

 

[hairball]

I agree that it isn't smoking. Nor is it tobacco. I look at it as HOW they are allowed to regulate it, not as WHAT it is. So, it falls under tobacco regulations, but it isn't tobacco.

The nic that we inhale is derived from tobacco. Synthetic made nic is too expensive for vendors to buy.

 

[jlarsen]

I agree that it isn't smoking. Nor is it tobacco. I look at it as HOW they are allowed to regulate it, not as WHAT it is. So, it falls under tobacco regulations, but it isn't tobacco.

Technically, the nicotine does come from tobacco.

It will be interesting to see exactly what and how they regulate it, if they regulate nic juices only or non-nic juices as well, and whether or not they regulate the equipment.

 

[jlarsen]

I honestly don't think that the internet sites will get shut down. The vendors will have to start applying taxes on what we buy. Too much revenue for our "wonderful" government to lose.

On one hand, there are some legal internet tobacco sales, but many are illegal. Because of the variation in state regulations and taxes, there are legal hurdles with selling cigarettes across state lines. For less harmful tobacco products like snus and cigars, it isn't as difficult. Of course vaping is as safe as gum and patches, and should therefore be the least regulated and taxed tobacco product... but considering state governments and the FDA were trying to get ecigs banned completely, I don't have a lot of faith that they won't just treat them the same as cigarettes, make interstate sales illegal, and tax them to the point that the price triples.

I hope I'm wrong, but...

 

[KJ22]

Technically, the nicotine does come from tobacco.

It will be interesting to see exactly what and how they regulate it, if they regulate nic juices only or non-nic juices as well, and whether or not they regulate the equipment.

You hit the nail on the head for me. I don't use nic juices, I DIY with ingredients that are mostly available from a local cake decorating supply store. What are they going to do? Tax me for inhaling cake decorations? LOL

 

[hairball]

On one hand, there are some legal internet tobacco sales, but many are illegal. Because of the variation in state regulations and taxes, there are legal hurdles with selling cigarettes across state lines. For less harmful tobacco products like snus and cigars, it isn't as difficult. Of course vaping is as safe as gum and patches, and should therefore be the least regulated and taxed tobacco product... but considering state governments and the FDA were trying to get ecigs banned completely, I don't have a lot of faith that they won't just treat them the same as cigarettes, make interstate sales illegal, and tax them to the point that the price triples.

I hope I'm wrong, but...

According to one of the ECF'ers on here...I think she is a lawyer but may not be but is very knowledgeable about the subject...they will be classified the same as cigars, chew...not the same as cigarettes. Like you, I hope that is the case. The CASAA is keeping on their skirt tails so that they don't try to throw us a curve ball.

 

[twgbonehead]

I was also concerned about this (but agree that the alternative would have been worse).

The issue is that taxes on tobacco are all over the place. Just about a year ago they added a tax on RYO tobacco, so that a 1-lb bag went from $16 to $45. (I think the new tax was $26/lb). But, while they changed the tax on most types of tobacco, they left pipe tobacco at $1.15 or so per lb. So all the RYO tobacco vendors came out with "pipe cut" tobacco, and that's what everybody switched to. (Shhhh! Don't tell your congressman!)

When a 30-ml bottle of juice gets a $100 tax pasted on it, we may all have wished it was a drug-delivery system instead....

But, as someone above said, most of the ingredients are locally available for food purposes. Going to surf around to find out whether there's an easy and safe way to extract the nic from pipe tobacco.

 

[azdave]

Well, as soon as we find out they are taxing nic juice, it might be time to quick-order a big drum of it and become a DIY'er.

 

[The Duke]

The main Idea behind tobacco tax was to offset the health care costs of smoking, I can't see why e-cigs and juice would even need to be taxed

 

[ahughe3]

i had been hearing that the fda was going to ban e cigs. this is much better. i hate that it'll be 20$ for 10mL, but... it's still cheaper than analogs...


... unless....

okay if big tobacco thought e cigs were cutting into their profits... and IF the fda was in big tobacco's pocket... do you think they might try to tax e cigs out of existence.... i mean, assuming there was no scientific basis for them to ban them... in a hypothetical non-accusatory way?

 

[cookiebun]

24 pages of discussion on this topic here folks:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/legislation-news/182522-fda-regulate-e-cig-tobacco.html
Many of the people who actually led the fight for us are there.

 

[ahughe3]

Well, as soon as we find out they are taxing nic juice, it might be time to quick-order a big drum of it and become a DIY'er.

my ol' man had the exact same idea...

 

[twgbonehead]

The main Idea behind tobacco tax was to offset the health care costs of smoking, I can't see why e-cigs and juice would even need to be taxed

Sorry, but I don't believe that for a minute (yes, I know that's what they SAID). The main idea behind the tobacco tax was that it hit primarily a group without the power to fight this tax, and was politically popular. Funny how many non-smokers seriously want to punish the cigarette-slaves!

 

[ahughe3]

okay so if it's tobacco and menthol flavors only, does that include flavored tobaccos like applewood tobacco and such? because latte-bacco could be decent if it's more focused on the latte and less on the bacco...