What is the visible product composed of?

[NCC]

I've heard it called water vapor. Well, first of all water vapor is invisible, so I'll accept that as steam? But, the PV vaporizes a base of either PG or VG, with lesser amounts of flavor and nicotine. Presumably, most of the visible cloud is from the base ... right? Well, they aren't water and the temperatures we're dealing with here aren't high enough to produce a chemical breakdown of the bases as far as I know.

Does anyone know, what is the visible "vapor" composed of, really? I'd just like to be better informed when I'm asked ... as I have been a number of times already. Unless informed otherwise, I'd have to assume it is atomized PG/VG, and not water vapor.

 

[Leal]

I would say your assumption is logical. When asked about it I usually say it's VG vapor. And if needed what VG is.

 

[tarheeldan]

"Unless informed otherwise, I'd have to assume it is atomized PG/VG, and not water vapor"

That's my understanding. Fog machines use propylene glycol.

 

[5cardstud]

There you go, say what Tarheeldan says. Just tell them it's the same thing that comes out of a kids fog machine.

 

[tarheeldan]

There's also support for propylene glycol having germicidal properties. So vapers are kind of human air fresheners (as someone else coined it) and airborne purell.

 

[Leal]

Hehe, Airborn Purell. Awesome.

 

[NCC]

Thanks y'all, for verifying what I thought. I appreciate it.

 

[highping]

There's also support for propylene glycol having germicidal properties. So vapers are kind of human air fresheners (as someone else coined it) and airborne purell.

I think I can vouch for the germicidal properties a little (not scientifically of course). I usually get a common cold about three times in any given year. Since I have started vaping, there have been two rounds of colds in my home. Everyone else (wife and two kids) all came down with it both times. It passed me by both times.
I have also been around people at work with colds on many occasions in that period. I have had zero illnesses since I started vaping last August.
Like I said, this is hardly scientific proof or anything, just something I find interesting.
I have also read of studies done in a childrens hospital where they pump PG into the air of one wing and not in the other and there is a noticable difference in infection levels between the two. (there's a thread on it here somewhere, but I have no idea where now).

 

[john doe]

i hope more people read this. the number of times i've gone to blogs or info gathering sites from links here and see people say"it's just water vapor, stop being ignorant" it really undermines everything. when even the vapors can't get the facts straight, how can we expect others to believe us?
and, yes it's one of the forms of glycerin plus flavors plus a tiny, tiny bit of nicotine.

 

[Katattack]

Ohhh maybe a way to make some $$ a bunch of vapers rent themselves out as living fog machines! I kid of course but yeah it would have some water vapor (as all exhales do) but what you see is the PG or VG vapor.

 

[I Stelfer I]

I've heard it called water vapor. Well, first of all water vapor is invisible, so I'll accept that as steam?.

Evaporated water is not visible unless its in high enough concentrates or heated properly (I.E. Steam)

Also it very well could be water vapor. Clouds are made of water vapor but that vapor is attached to something like a dust particle or something similar. So since all E-Liquid has at least some water in it, the Vapor could largely be due to heated water molecules clinging onto particles of another ingredient in the E-Liquid.

Same could hold true for the PG or VG.

Just a theory I have done no official testing on this matter.

 

[I Stelfer I]

"Fog machines use propylene glycol.

Dipropylene Glycol is a more common fog machine fuel.

I am actually experimenting with using this liquid as an E-Liquid base simply because of its ability to create more vapor per mL.

 

[I Stelfer I]

I think I can vouch for the germicidal properties a little (not scientifically of course). I usually get a common cold about three times in any given year. Since I have started vaping, there have been two rounds of colds in my home. Everyone else (wife and two kids) all came down with it both times. It passed me by both times.
I have also been around people at work with colds on many occasions in that period. I have had zero illnesses since I started vaping last August.
Like I said, this is hardly scientific proof or anything, just something I find interesting.
I have also read of studies done in a childrens hospital where they pump PG into the air of one wing and not in the other and there is a noticable difference in infection levels between the two. (there's a thread on it here somewhere, but I have no idea where now).

If you started Vaping after you were a smoker, these results are most likely due to cigarette smokes nasty habbit of stunting the growth of the cilia in your throat that help filter out the things that make you sick. Smokers on average get sick more often than non smokers.

 

[NCC]

Evaporated water is not visible unless its in high enough concentrates or heated properly (I.E. Steam)

Also it very well could be water vapor. Clouds are made of water vapor but that vapor is attached to something like a dust particle or something similar.

Water vapor is a colorless, odorless gas, it is not visible. You can see steam, clouds, fog, your breath on a cold day ... but, you're seeing liquid water condensed on dust particles. Very small droplets, granted, but liquid nonetheless. That's not water vapor.

 

[DirtyHarry]

Twenty minutes of research and my ancient chemistry knowledge helped generate this possible answer:

PG is C3H8O2, a member of the propane family. When heated by the "atomizer" coil, it expands into a vapor, retaining it's structure more or less - until it hits water (i.e. - your lungs). Then it breaks down.

What you exhale after your vaping consists of water droplets and CO2 mainly, with a bunch of trace compounds (mostly hydrocarbons) that are barely detectable, which the water droplets cluster around. This is why it vanishes in the moist environment of the lower atmosphere so quickly and totally; your e-cig puff exhale is figuratively a clutch of trees getting lost in the gigantic forest of the atmosphere around you - but your usual (non-vaping) respiration exhales are just a bunch of pine needles, so in this instance you notice it visually for a few seconds.

So, while it's sort of disingenuous to say "water vapor", it's not that far from the truth. Perhaps it's better to say what you inhale (or push out of your mouth after puffing with dramatic smoke rings and all... which vanishes only a few seconds longer than a fully inhaled puff, because instead of breaking down in your lungs it's breaking down in the natural humidity of the air around you) is PG vapor; what you exhale after vaping is more properly described as a "fog" of water droplets clustered around other trace elements. In long time smokers like myself, probably a lot of those trace elements are clusters of tar.

In either case, it's pretty much proven harmless in and of itself. We put it in food, skin care products, and such diverse things as KY jelly.

No, don't start packing your carts with KY. Please. That's just TMI.

Clear as mud?

 

[SmilingSlasher]

I can contribute this small amount of very dumb info.....but true info.....

Men ( or women too, I suppose) with a mustache can blow the vapor out and through their mustache. Water droplets will be visable (and felt) on the hairs. I noticed this when I first started vaping in September.

 

[NCC]

DirtyHarry: Fairly clear, and I thank you for adding your knowledge. So, I gather from your description that PG is hydroscopic. That would help to explain the dehydration many vapers experience.

I was trying to solidify the distinction between water vapor and the liquid water droplets which steam, fog, clouds, etc are composed of ... and the fact that water vapor is a gas which is no more visible than nitrogen or oxygen. Therefore it is far from the truth to say you 'see' water vapor.

But, if I understand you correctly, you are going with the pseudo smoke as being composed primarily of PG droplets condensed on dust particles, rather than water droplets. Correct?


Or, a PG-H2O solution condensed on dust particles.

 

[tarheeldan]

"Dipropylene Glycol is a more common fog machine fu"

Actually, it looks like it's typically a mix of propylene glycol, triethylene glycol, and (depending on the machine) distilled water. I like your input about PG/VG particles for water vapor to cling to, I'd heard that somewhere else but it wasn't stated quite so well.

DirtyHarry, PG being hydroscopic and NCC's link to dehydration makes sense. The NZ study detected 0.7mg/"puff" of PG in e-cig mist, but I haven't looked in a while so I'm not sure how they simulated "smoking".

 

[doctorjae75]

first of all, i apologize in advance for the lack of capitalization, i'm just way to lazy to reach over to that shift button...

i'm sure that many more advanced and shall i say scientific studies have been done regarding this issue, but i think i'll run a few test for my own ........es and laughs. i just received my first 'pv' 4 days ago, and i am already hooked on this new lifestyle, especially since i haven't smoked an analog since i took my first vape.

i have been in the medical field for the last 15 years working in the laboratory, with the last 5 in the microbiology department. I have an extensive arsenal at my disposal to run some test on the possible "germicidal" properties of 'pg', although i have no 'vg' to analyze. in the next few weeks or so, i intend to do a few experiments with some very common organisms and their reaction to 'pg' both in liquid and vapor form...i'm not quite sure what the procedures will be, since i have just thought to do this because of the current topic. any suggestions would be nice and hopefully i can keep y'all (southern slang for "you all", "you/you's guys" ...) posted. it may not interest anyone at all, but my curiosity is piqued.

until then...doctorjae

 

[tarheeldan]

doctorjae, I'm interested to see what your results are! Here's some stuff I dug up on the issue:
1942 child ward study
TIME article
EPA work