What the hell happened

[plant]

So I haven't been paying attention to the industry for a year, maybe two. I've been using the same device for that time, a genuine ZNA and kayfun:


It still works great and I've been very happy with it, but recently I've been looking to get with the times.

I figure I would be able to browse the web and take my pick of any American/European made mod milled out of a solid block of aluminum or stainless and top it with a high quality, high performance tank also of Western origin.

But is it just me, or has China completely (re)taken over the industry? Back in like 2010-2011 that's all we had, but 2013-2014 seemed like a renaissance of Western superiority in the industry. Svoemesto, Mark Bugs, HoH, Hana, atmomixani, provape, etc etc.

Now it looks like the mod to have is a $50 triple battery monstrosity made out of stamped sheet steel topped with whatever $30 chinese designed/manufactured RTA performs the best on any given week.

Is there some hidden enclave of "nice" stuff that I'm missing? I checked the usual suspect (vaperev) and they really don't have anything.

The Kayfun v4 doesn't appear to be much of an improvement (if any) over what I have, and the semovar hasn't changed at all.

Vapor Flask is now made in China and Zen/HoH seems dead in the water.

Somebody help me out because I'm about to buy a Vape Forward Stout and a Griffin tank.

 

[jarreddizzle]

What is your argument? Are you upset with China's marketing? The US/Euro marketing?

 

[crxess]

Yep, you missed the introduction of the Industrial age in Vaping.
No longer does one have to get on a waiting list or get lucky in a lottery to find a device that can do the job.
Yes, there was some excellent pioneers and a few seek to have abused the market with overly high pricing and low production, but no more.

You can still shop Specialty, but the rest of the vaping world can also enjoy products that meet the need.

My most expensive Mod - SX mini M Class original $199, my cost $159
My most expensive Tank(in use) $9.67 and a great performer for over a year.
My cheapest mod(works well) $8.47(mechanical) $16 Regulated(with TC)

 

[plant]

What is your argument? Are you upset with China's marketing? The US/Euro marketing?

I think disappointed would be the better word. I watched Rip Trippers "best of 2015" and it's all Chinese stuff.

I'm just looking for something that was milled out of a solid block of metal, has some thought given to the design, and has an American made board. A ZNA for the modern day I suppose.

I really like the aesthetic of the Stout but it is Chinese made out of sheet metal with a Chinese chip. And the battery door/gap bothers me, I would rather have something like the "real" vapor flask. SOLID no nonsense:


I looked at the Hana V200 but "elegance" doesn't appear to be part of their design philosophy.

Then as far as tanks, kayfun and squape clearly lost their crown. The most innovative stuff is all from Chinese companies I've never heard of. Not upset, good for them, just disappointed.

 

[plant]

Yep, you missed the introduction of the Industrial age in Vaping.
No longer does one have to get on a waiting list or get lucky in a lottery to find a device that can do the job.
Yes, there was some excellent pioneers and a few seek to have abused the market with overly high pricing and low production, but no more.

You can still shop Specialty, but the rest of the vaping world can also enjoy products that meet the need.

My most expensive Mod - SX mini M Class original $199, my cost $159
My most expensive Tank(in use) $9.67 and a great performer for over a year.
My cheapest mod(works well) $8.47(mechanical) $16 Regulated(with TC)

Thanks. If this is the new normal I'm going to have to deal with it. Before I pull the trigger on a Stout and a Griffin is there anything else I should take a look at?

 

[jarreddizzle]

If you're feeling disappointed... then I would highly suggest getting into more high-end gear. There, is where I am 100% sure you will find what you're looking for.

 

[plant]

If you're feeling disappointed... then I would highly suggest getting into more high-end gear. There, is where I am 100% sure you will find what you're looking for.

Where is all this high end stuff?

I'm not looking for some super exclusive $600 mod like those DNA 30s back in the day with wooden trim and all that.

I'm just looking for high quality production mods in the 250-350 range. I really like the Stout I just wish it was made in the US with the same materials and standards as the original vapor flask.

Also I'm not looking to sacrifice performance. If the best performing RTAs are Chinese then it is what it is.

 

[jarreddizzle]

Where is all this high end stuff?
I'm not looking for some super exclusive $600 mod like those DNA 30s back in the day with wooden trim and all that.
I'm just looking for high quality production mods in the 250-350 range. I really like the Stout I just wish it was made in the US with the same materials and standards as the original vapor flask.
Also I'm not looking to sacrifice performance. If the best performing RTAs are Chinese then it is what it is.

Well then I would suggest looking at picking up the VFSX (there are still some floating around online retailers) or perhaps picking up something like the HOBOX... there are other high end gear devices that are below the $400 price point.
As far as best performing RTAs, what are you looking for in an RTA? As of now, my pick is for the Hurricane by E-Pheonix, then again I'm not looking for "clouds-bro-clouds".

 

[Big Me]

"Proper" (High End) Vapor Flask www.vapinart.com/cart/mobile/Vapor-Flask-SX-Black-P2154.aspx

 

[JC Okie]

So I haven't been paying attention to the industry for a year, maybe two. I've been using the same device for that time, a genuine ZNA and kayfun:


It still works great and I've been very happy with it, but recently I've been looking to get with the times.

I figure I would be able to browse the web and take my pick of any American/European made mod milled out of a solid block of aluminum or stainless and top it with a high quality, high performance tank also of Western origin.

But is it just me, or has China completely (re)taken over the industry? Back in like 2010-2011 that's all we had, but 2013-2014 seemed like a renaissance of Western superiority in the industry. Svoemesto, Mark Bugs, HoH, Hana, atmomixani, provape, etc etc.

Now it looks like the mod to have is a $50 triple battery monstrosity made out of stamped sheet steel topped with whatever $30 chinese designed/manufactured RTA performs the best on any given week.

Is there some hidden enclave of "nice" stuff that I'm missing? I checked the usual suspect (vaperev) and they really don't have anything.

The Kayfun v4 doesn't appear to be much of an improvement (if any) over what I have, and the semovar hasn't changed at all.

Vapor Flask is now made in China and Zen/HoH seems dead in the water.

Somebody help me out because I'm about to buy a Vape Forward Stout and a Griffin tank.

Have you considered a REO? They're bottom feeders box mods made out of a solid piece of metal, virtually indestructible, made in Maine. They're mechanical, and everything on them can be fixed or replaced by myself. I've used only REOs for the past five years, and you couldn't make me give them up. Just a suggestion. www.reosmods.com If you have any questions, you can get answers by going to the REOs mods foruum here on ECF.

Jan

 

[crxess]

Tube Mods - dicodes-mods.com

 

[plant]

Thank you everyone for the suggestions.

I was using the original vapor flask as an example of my preferred battery style. I do not like doors, flaps, magnets, etc. However I always thought the flask was a bit too large so I never picked one up. I think the stout is perfect I just wish it was built exactly like the original.

I do not like the wood/fused wood look or whatever it's called. I like big chunks of metal.

As far as what I want in an rta, something that offers better vapor and flavor than my 2+ year old kayfun, something with a modern/larger build deck, juice control, top fill, adjustable airflow... Basically the griffin seems to check all these boxes. But I am open to suggestions.

I have used a Reo and it's definitely not my thing.

Those dicode mods look really nice thank you for the suggestion.

 

[Rizzyking]

Things have changed and for most of us they have changed for the better high end gear rarely offers a significant experience over the cheaper stuff now and given how cheap it is why not try it you might be surprised.

 

[Bad Ninja]

I think disappointed would be the better word. I watched Rip Trippers "best of 2015" and it's all Chinese stuff.

I'm just looking for something that was milled out of a solid block of metal, has some thought given to the design, and has an American made board. A ZNA for the modern day I suppose.

I really like the aesthetic of the Stout but it is Chinese made out of sheet metal with a Chinese chip. And the battery door/gap bothers me, I would rather have something like the "real" vapor flask. SOLID no nonsense:


I looked at the Hana V200 but "elegance" doesn't appear to be part of their design philosophy.

Then as far as tanks, kayfun and squape clearly lost their crown. The most innovative stuff is all from Chinese companies I've never heard of. Not upset, good for them, just disappointed.

The iPhone is made in China. Don't knock their ability to manufacture a quality product.

If you've been around, then you know how the industry was, extremely overpriced products, long waits, pre-orders and Facebook only "companies".
This is not how a proper business is operated.
Due to lack of competition, the high end companies took advantage of vapers.
There was a gap in the industry filled by quality products at reasonable prices.
The market sorted itself out.

 

[Train2]

For solid and U.S. someone above mentioned the Reo - and that it is - but mechanical.
There IS a ProVape box, not solid metal, but pretty solid - the Radius. And with a KFL style topper, the 40 watt limit may be OK for you - worth looking at, anyway...

 

[Toronnah]

The iPhone is made in China. Don't knock their ability to manufacture a quality product.

Modern Chinese I phones vs US made Motorola from back in the day.

No question in my mind that Chinese quality isn't there. Look at the Chinese auto industry. That can't touch the Americans, Germans, Japanese and Koreans. Not even close.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Modern Chinese I phones vs US made Motorola from back in the day.

Oh no it wasn't.
I've had a cell phone since they were in bags and owned Motorola stock.
Their best was the star tac and it sucked.
Motorola ditched the phone game because they couldn't manufacture the parts cheap enough to compete back then, and Qualcomm set the industry standard for internals.

Don't bash the Chinese. Be thankful you don't have to go through the crap we used to just to get a decent mod.

 

[haleysdadda]

So I haven't been paying attention to the industry for a year, maybe two. I've been using the same device for that time, a genuine ZNA and kayfun:


It still works great and I've been very happy with it, but recently I've been looking to get with the times.

I figure I would be able to browse the web and take my pick of any American/European made mod milled out of a solid block of aluminum or stainless and top it with a high quality, high performance tank also of Western origin.

But is it just me, or has China completely (re)taken over the industry? Back in like 2010-2011 that's all we had, but 2013-2014 seemed like a renaissance of Western superiority in the industry. Svoemesto, Mark Bugs, HoH, Hana, atmomixani, provape, etc etc.

Now it looks like the mod to have is a $50 triple battery monstrosity made out of stamped sheet steel topped with whatever $30 chinese designed/manufactured RTA performs the best on any given week.

Is there some hidden enclave of "nice" stuff that I'm missing? I checked the usual suspect (vaperev) and they really don't have anything.

The Kayfun v4 doesn't appear to be much of an improvement (if any) over what I have, and the semovar hasn't changed at all.

Vapor Flask is now made in China and Zen/HoH seems dead in the water.

Somebody help me out because I'm about to buy a Vape Forward Stout and a Griffin tank.

Ok so I've only been vaping for about a year now so this might be a newb answer to your question! I'm a Machinist & from what I know there is no way for me to compete with China as far as cost goes! As someone who works for an off road performance mfg. we have noticed a significant quality increase in the few parts we purchase from China! As for an American made mod you might want to look at Hana Mods V200 https://www.hanamodz.com/index.php? main_page=product_info&cPath=92&products_id=442&zenid=6592f8f6b729dbb1bf98fa49b606e573
American made 6061 Aluminum mod with an American made DNA 200 chip for less than $200!
Also look into that American designed 3 batt. monstrosity because it also can be had with the American made DNA200 chip! If you can find one in stock!
Wismec Reuleaux DNA 200 200W Box Mod by Jay Bo Designs
As far as tanks go IMHO the Mutation MT is one of the best ones out there!
Project Sub-Ohm Edition Mutation X MT RTA by Indulgence
Just some thoughts from a newb who has only experienced the stuff from China!

 

[roxynoodle]

Look at a Dicodes box or tube mod, the Radius from Provape, or Hana or Vaporshark.

If high end Chinese is ok with you, the sx mini m or ml class. In fact, its rather ZNA like.

As for toppers, there are a ton of European ones. The Hurricane from E Phoenix is quite nice. You might also like an Erlkonigin or Phenomenon from Gus Mods.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Ok so I've only been vaping for about a year now so this might be a newb answer to your question! I'm a Machinist & from what I know there is no way for me to compete with China as far as cost goes! As someone who works for an off road performance mfg. we have noticed a significant quality increase in the few parts we purchase from China! As for an American made mod you might want to look at Hana Mods V200 https://www.hanamodz.com/index.php? main_page=product_info&cPath=92&products_id=442&zenid=6592f8f6b729dbb1bf98fa49b606e573
American made 6061 Aluminum mod with an American made DNA 200 chip for less than $200!
Also look into that American designed 3 batt. monstrosity because it also can be had with the American made DNA200 chip! If you can find one in stock!
Wismec Reuleaux DNA 200 200W Box Mod by Jay Bo Designs
As far as tanks go IMHO the Mutation MT is one of the best ones out there!
Project Sub-Ohm Edition Mutation X MT RTA by Indulgence
Just some thoughts from a newb who has only experienced the stuff from China!

Nice!
I used to manufacture automotive racing suspension parts.
The only way we survived was doing custom work. Thank god the Chinese don't race like the west.


Hanna felt the bite and seriously dropped their prices across the board a while back, however the initial high prices turned a lot of buyers off.


Many American manufacturers ( vape industry) seemed to want to push the profit as high as possible leaving a huge gap for reasonably priced gear.
The offered amateurish customer service, displayed poor business ethics, and many operated without a business lisc.
They asked for cash up front before products were made, and used Facebook instead of opening a legit business.

These companies are why clones exist and China rules this industry.
They set themselves up for failure.

Hype only goes so far.