What's in the flavours?

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godzilla93

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I've been vaping for a few weeks now (loving it!) and did quite a bit of reading and watching youtube videos (thanks Outlaw!). My question is this: there seem to be quite a lot of debate among vapers about the compared benefits of PG vs. VG juices. What about the chemicals used for flavoring? I haven't found any description of these from any of the juice vendors I checked. Shouldn't we be a little more informed about what comes into this part of the juice (from what I understand, flavoring counts for 20%)? Obviously, I wouldn't want to ask the juice providers to give their secret recipes, but still, a little more info could be nice.

What do you (i.e. ECF community) think? Has anyone done some research on this?

P.S.: I aware of, and mostly agree with, the basic pro-ecig answers to this: 1) whatever is in the juice, it's better than the sh$t they put in the analogs; 2) Ecigs being a fairly recent technology, there is no way to be 100% sure about the impact of any substance. Basically, I am just looking for a little more insight into the composition of these flavors.
 

Hitmetwice

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This is the reason many folks vape unflavoured e-liq.
Myself, I figure they are made for human consumption to begin with, plus some of the problem additives have already been identified as such and not used in pre-made juices.
In my DIY I try to use flavouring at the lowest level I can for the results I want.
Generally 5-10%.
One of the reasons I DIY is that I know how much goes into a mix.
Store bought liquid....not so much.
Besides DIY is fun.
:vapor::vapor:
 

LouP

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There are many vendors out there who care very much about what does and does not go into their juice and list ingredients on their site.
Virgin Vapor is organic and delicious and where I get all my juice. When I first started I used juice with a lot of chemicals and had pretty bad reactions. Since I switched I have had zero problems!

Congrats on your few weeks and enjoy your search for your favourite juices!:)
 

recidivus

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I think the OP is asking what is in the flavourings used to make the juice, specifically.

A quick glance at Virgin Vapor lists their ingredients on blueberry as: nicotine, USP (pharmaceutical grade) vegetable glycerin, USDA certified organic flavorings, pure distilled water and NOTHING ELSE.

No specifics on what is in the organic flavouring, ditto on any others I've looked at there. What is making that organic blueberry taste like blueberry? We know it's organic, that's all.
 

Hitmetwice

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@Hitmetwice: Quick question about unflavored e-liq: does it have no taste at all, or does PG/VG have a taste of their own? Also, do you still get a good TH? (but maybe that belongs to another thread...)

Taste is an individual thing, but I don't really like unflavoured all that much.
I tried to like it but find just a little flavouring goes a long way in making it enjoyable
as opposed to, well. blah.JMO.
 

HMCSTO

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Even when you DIY, you are basically using the same flavouring agents as all the vendors, who may use suppliers who employ different processes or chemicals.

"flavouring" is not an ingredient; That flavour is actually made of something, and it would be worth our time to talk to the manufacturers and find out what goes into the flavourings we use.
 

godzilla93

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Even when you DIY, you are basically using the same flavouring agents as all the vendors, who may use suppliers who employ different processes or chemicals.

"flavouring" is not an ingredient; That flavour is actually made of something, and it would be worth our time to talk to the manufacturers and find out what goes into the flavourings we use.

I agree. Is there an "e-cig user association," or something similar, through which we could talk to the manufacturers? If not, that's something that could be worth considering...
 

Hitmetwice

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Even when you DIY, you are basically using the same flavouring agents as all the vendors, who may use suppliers who employ different processes or chemicals.

"flavouring" is not an ingredient; That flavour is actually made of something, and it would be worth our time to talk to the manufacturers and find out what goes into the flavourings we use.

True, I agree, but at the end of the day it'd just be nice to know if it's safe to inhale, or not.
All the chemical names would do me absolutely no good at all.
There would need to be lots of testing done and who wants to be on the hook to pay for it all.
Not even our gov. I'd guess.

:vapor::vapor:
 

godzilla93

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I agree. Is there an "e-cig user association," or something similar, through which we could talk to the manufacturers? If not, that's something that could be worth considering...

Actually I found an association that seem to aim at representing us (users): CASAA (see http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/casaa/95016-what-who-casaa.html). Maybe there are other out there, but given what we're facing (big tobacco, anti-everything-pleasurable bigots, etc.), it's probably not a bad idea to organize...
 

wonderland

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I've been vaping for a few weeks now (loving it!) and did quite a bit of reading and watching youtube videos (thanks Outlaw!). My question is this: there seem to be quite a lot of debate among vapers about the compared benefits of PG vs. VG juices. What about the chemicals used for flavoring? I haven't found any description of these from any of the juice vendors I checked. Shouldn't we be a little more informed about what comes into this part of the juice (from what I understand, flavoring counts for 20%)? Obviously, I wouldn't want to ask the juice providers to give their secret recipes, but still, a little more info could be nice.

What do you (i.e. ECF community) think? Has anyone done some research on this?

i have wondered the same thing. i'm guessing it's the same type of flavoring they use in shisha (hookah tobacco)... not that i know what they flavor that with either! i wonder if you can vape something like maple extract mixed into a PG/VG base? practically everything we eat and drink (that are not "whole foods") will say somewhere in the ingredients "natural flavorings," so looking into how those are created may give us some idea of what "flavorings" are and how they're made?
 

SuziesMom

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Flavor and fragrance chemistry is tricky stuff. Very very tricky and there's quite a few different techniques you can use to come up with a flavor. It's sort of along the lines of mixing a good cocktail. Think of a Long Island Iced Tea- a buncha stuff and magically it turns into something that tastes like iced tea. That's sort of the magic with flavors/fragrance. The Perfumer's Apprentice site has some good info as well if you really want to get into the nitty gritty.

This is taken from Nature's Flavors.com they make natural and organic flavors for quite a few industries.
"The processes for making organic flavors are much the same as for making natural flavors. The ingredients are organic rather than just natural. You start by using only certified organic ingredients when available and when not you may use naturals provided they fit with in the definition of natural and only comprise less than 5% of the total amount when calling it 95% organic. When calling it 100% organic you must use only certified organic ingredients and nothing else.

Nature's Flavours carries both 95% and 100% certified organic flavors. It is our goal to produce only 100% organic flavor concentrates and extracts as the ingredients become available. In many instances we produce our own organic ingredients to satisfy our strict quality control requirements. Because the industry is still very young the technology's to make these ingredients are still evolving. The only solvents that we use in the development of organic and natural flavors are filtered RO water and organic alcohol. If we can’t extract the ingredients thru these methods then we don't do it.

Steam distillation is another method we employee. Fortunately this is in most cases the only methods needed to manufacture these unique flavor concentrates and extracts. A simple and common process for making vanilla extract is to take organic vanilla beans and grind them to a pulp then allow them to soak and extract in an organic alcohol/water mixture for a period of time sometimes for up to several months. Normally for a standard organic vanilla extract you would extract for a period of not less than fourteen days. That's how long Nature's Flavours allows its organic vanilla extract to age and extract. This method is common for our citrus and other fruit flavor extracts as well. There are usually some filtering and clarifying techniques that follow the extraction process before being bottled or packaged.

There are no chemical residues because there are no chemical solvents used. Many of the organic flavoring ingredients are derived this way first before being incorporated in to water based or oil based organic flavor concentrate. To make the organic flavor concentrates water soluble you must emulsify the oils that were derived and separated from the extraction process or steam distilling and that usually involves using an organic gum or starch and under high pressure and shearing. This process forces the oils and gums to be broken into very small particles and cling to one another with out reforming into there basic building blocks again. The entire process is safe and effective for producing the finest organic flavor oils, flavor concentrates, and flavor extracts. Nature's Flavours has pioneered many of these methods for producing these organic products. We are proud of our flavorings, spices, coffees, and all our organic products. We hope they bring you much enjoyment and satisfaction.

I hope this answers any questions or concerns you might have regarding our organic flavor products."

I work with flavors and fragrances for my job. Most manufacturers keep a lot of the info secret (the FDA says flavors only have to be listed on the ingredients list as "flavor" or "fragrance"), but will answer some questions if you ask. In the EU you do have to list the specific components for certain things and it reads about as easily as Chinese. Linalool, cinnamol, citronel, eugenol, gerinol, coumarin- things like that. There's no real studies for safety, so it's an issue I haven't really paid much attention to.
 

otrpu

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I DIY'ed my eLiquid from the start. Really, all I ever used was Cinnamon flavor. Decided to drop the Cinnamon cause I thought maybe it wasn't a great idea to be inhaling all that Cinnamon. When I left out the Cinnamon in a batch, I also, ACCIDENTLY left out the nicotine. A day later when I discovered this fact. . .decided WHO NEEDS IT! Been 0Nic, 0FA, (Flavor Added), ever since. Better than 11 months now. My eLiquid costs me virtually nothing. It's out 3 decimals, .006 p/mL. Using no more than 30% PG, usually 25%PG/75%VG. Maybe a quarter a day on days off. My philosophy now is don't put any more in it than you absolutely have too. JMHO

Cheers,
otrpu
 
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