Why ask about resistance/power? Why not ask amperage instead?

[Atrus]

I always hear people asking "yo how many ohms are you running" or "how much wattage are you pushing". One of these values by itself won't give anyone even a semi-accurate understanding of the other person's vape. Correct? (unless asking about the other values as well) So why don't people just ask about how much amperage someone's set up draws instead? Is that not why we are tinkering around with the resistance of the coils and voltage/wattage output to achieve in the first place? To draw more amperage in the end (if thats what you like) so that our coils are hotter and vaporize the juice more? I mean besides our own likeness to how something vapes that we build, amperage and making sure our batteries can handle it is the big focus. Which brings me to wonder why VV/VW mods allow you to manipulate the voltage or wattage. Why not have a mod that directly lets you regulate the amperage flow instead of volts or watts, and does the math so if you were to select say 10 amps to be drawn out of your battery, the chip would know that you have say 1.0 ohms of resistance and would fire with 10v or 100w. Correct me if im wrong anywhere but as long as the amount/density of wick, and devices/attys used in the setup remain constant, wouldn't pulling 10 amps from a .5 ohm coil at 50 watts give you a relatively similar vape compared to a 1 ohm 100 watt setup. Obviously not exactly due to differences in surface area of wick covered by the coils and so forth but am i on the right track here at all? Sorry for the 2 part novel.

 

[rurwin]

VA is an interesting topic. There are a few mods that support it. The Taifun Eye springs to mind.

There are advantages to all four modes:

Variable voltage gives you a consistent experience however many coils you use. A single coil acts about the same as a dual coil so long as wicking and airflow are comparable.
Variable wattage gives a consistent vape regardless of resistance, assuming the coils are more or less identical otherwise.
Variable current gives you a consistent vape regardless of resistance, assuming the coils use the same wire.
Variable temperature gives you a consistent taste but the vapour production varies.

It is power that heats the liquid, so VW supplies a consistent heat. But if your coil uses more wire, or is wrapped differently, that heat will be delivered differently to the liquid.

So long as you use the same wire, VA gives you the same power delivery per inch of wire. So a 4 turn coil will behave the same as a six turn coil... theoretically. But a different gauge of wire will require a different current and the wicking and airflow may not scale the same way.

Variable temperature is not out in the wild yet. From early reports, the temperature determines the taste, whereas the power determines the amount of vapour. So you can get a consistent taste while building the coil and wick to achieve the vapour production at the required temperature.

 

[crxess]

Seriously? It's like 5:30 in the morning. Coffee First then thought.................. oh and consider line spacing/paragraphs.

 

[nic_fix]

the dna40 is of interest. I think they went that route to break into the dry "herb" market. where that really matters apparently. I like a consistent production regardless of flavor. that is why you mainly see vw now. if you really want to get scientific you can discuss power factor and duty cycle. let's wait until 8am though okay?

 

[Atrus]

crxess thanks for the heads up! rurwin thanks very much for the info. greatly appreciated. so if i am a vaper that is more concerned with vapor

production, but would prefer drawing no more than 20 amps, from no more than a 1 ohm build if not less, then is it safe to say that i may enjoy

variable wattage mods and unregulated mech mods more than other options? I love my mod/quad vertical .4 ohm coils as my home setup at the

moment but from the research i have done it seems like i may want a 50 watt box mod to pair up with a dual coil rba or something for on-the-go.

 

[Confuzzled1969]

Because ohms law, it is more than just formulas.

Current and Voltage are directly proportional = more volts yield more amps.

By boosting voltage, it is boosting the current as well.

Current and resistance are inversely proportional = less resistance = more amps, which is why people sub ohm.

Current is dependant upon the voltage and resistance, and it is not possible to control current nearly as easy as it is voltage.

Power, is the real measure of work done and is the product of current and voltage.

And for the record, the guy in PBusardo's video introducing the DNA 40 board got something wrong, I don't care how he understands it, more power equals more heat, every time all the time.

Even in his description of the device, the device limits the temperature by throttleing back the power to maintian the temp.

He's either not an engineer, or he lacks the communications skills to accurately describe engineering principals.

 

[Ryedan]

Correct me if im wrong anywhere but as long as the amount/density of wick, and devices/attys used in the setup remain constant, wouldn't pulling 10 amps from a .5 ohm coil at 50 watts give you a relatively similar vape compared to a 1 ohm 100 watt setup. Obviously not exactly due to differences in surface area of wick covered by the coils and so forth but am i on the right track here at all? Sorry for the 2 part novel.

Watts is power, or the amount of work done over time. In vaping the work the coil is doing is creating heat. Other things being more or less equal, watts define the amount of heat the coil makes per second and that defines the amount of juice we vaporize per second.

I am of course leaving out the other vaping variables like wire gauge, air flow, wicking efficiency, etc., .... I think you understand these by what you wrote above.

What this means to me is that if someone tells me the one of volts, amps, or resistance they are vaping at I know very little about their setup. If they tell me their watts, I know significantly more. Certainly not nearly everything, but if I'm only going to get one number, watts is the one I want. In your example above, your 100 watt setup will make much more vapor than the 50 watt setup.

 

[Ryedan]

crxess thanks for the heads up! rurwin thanks very much for the info. greatly appreciated. so if i am a vaper that is more concerned with vapor

production, but would prefer drawing no more than 20 amps, from no more than a 1 ohm build if not less, then is it safe to say that i may enjoy

variable wattage mods and unregulated mech mods more than other options? I love my mod/quad vertical .4 ohm coils as my home setup at the

moment but from the research i have done it seems like i may want a 50 watt box mod to pair up with a dual coil rba or something for on-the-go.

If you want a really good understanding of how all this stuff works, I think this would really help you: My thoughts about sub-ohm and latest VV/VW devices.

 

[imsoenthused]

Correct me if im wrong anywhere but as long as the amount/density of wick, and devices/attys used in the setup remain constant, wouldn't pulling 10 amps from a .5 ohm coil at 50 watts give you a relatively similar vape compared to a 1 ohm 100 watt setup.

This is actually exactly where you are wrong. Watts are a product of resistance. 100 watts will always be more end product, in this case vapor, than 50 watts. Assuming your build is set up to take advantage of all that power, the hundred watts should be giving you twice as much performance. Amperage numbers are really only useful for determining build limitations due to battery performance.

 

[HgA1C]

This is actually exactly where you are wrong. Watts are a product of resistance. 100 watts will always be more end product, in this case vapor, than 50 watts. Assuming your build is set up to take advantage of all that power, the hundred watts should be giving you twice as much performance. Amperage numbers are really only useful for determining build limitations due to battery performance.

To add to this in a basic way. Watts is a measure of energy per second. All materials require energy to heat up. Providing a higher wattage to the coil will allow for more energy to be transferred to the fluid in the wick, as the coil will stabilize from heat transfer. As long as the wick keeps up with the liquid demands of the energy being supplied to the coils. The coils will remain in roughly the same temperature range, and will vaporize more liquid per second. Therefore, watts in a very simplistic roundabout way, measures the vapor output potential of your build (not ohms). Not really trying to get into thermodynamics, and material properties as physics is not my specialty. Not to mention if string theory is correct we really don't exist.

 

[rurwin]

And for the record, the guy in PBusardo's video introducing the DNA 40 board got something wrong, I don't care how he understands it, more power equals more heat, every time all the time.

Even in his description of the device, the device limits the temperature by throttleing back the power to maintian the temp.

He's either not an engineer, or he lacks the communications skills to accurately describe engineering principals.

He's a salesman. He understands it pretty well and communicates it pretty well. If they had had Jon talking, the tech would have been 100% accurate, but 99% of the audience would have been confused.

Maybe I can correct Brandon's mis-statement. When you have a build that is working well with a given temperature, you can rebuild it to allow more power to be used. You will get the same taste but more vapour.

In fact it will probably be a nice tool to use when learning how coil and wick designs work. You will be able to see at a glance how much power you can put through a coil to achieve a given temperature. It isn't simply reducing the resistance of the coil. Far more important is increasing the wick efficiency and the coil surface area.


The other thing he said, is that once you get to the boiling point of the liquid, vapour production does not increase much. In the DNA40 it is pretty clear that both the temperature and the power are limits. So when the DNA40 fires it starts at the set power and scales it back as the temperature limit is reached. Or you could say that it heats the coil to the set temperature while respecting the power limit. If you want to work with temperature, just set the power higher than you're going to use. If you want power control, set temperature high (or disable it.)

All of these factors are all interlinked. With a given coil, wick, liquid, airflow and atomizer, there is going to be exactly one setting that produces an optimum vape, You can specify that setting as a voltage, power, current or temperature; it makes no difference. It is other factors that make one mode preferable over another. Mostly that is to do with changing the coil etc and using something like the same setting. With temperature control you get an automatic boost to heat the coil to operating temperature quicker but it isn't unique in that; some mods do that with VW too.

 

[tj99959]

WOW ....... just wow!

Watts in no way = "performance". That's like saying a 1200cc Harley will out run a 250cc Husqvarna.

 

[Smann245]

Watts alone doesn't tell you anything about vapor production.
32g 4wraps 5/64"id 1/4"leg 1.5ohm
22g 32wraps 5/64"id 1/4"leg 1.5ohm
These builds won't perform the same at the same watt setting. I know it's a ridiculous example, just trying to illustrate a point to be considered.

 

[HgA1C]

WOW ....... just wow!

Watts in no way = "performance". That's like saying a 1200cc Harley will out run a 250cc Husqvarna.

Cubic displacement has very little to do with torque and horse power. In vaping, Watts=vaping potential or power. The coils, wick, and airflow are the transmission, differential, and tires.

 

[Dampmaskin]

Unless my google-fu has let me down, a 1200 cc Harley engine typically outputs 45 kW. A 250 cc Husqvarna engine is typically ... wait for it ... 45 kW.

In any case, there is no general way to convert between cc and power (watts). But converting betwen power and heat is trivial, because in a heating element, power is heat.

 

[NealBJr]

I always hear people asking "yo how many ohms are you running" or "how much wattage are you pushing". One of these values by itself won't give anyone even a semi-accurate understanding of the other person's vape. Correct? (unless asking about the other values as well) So why don't people just ask about how much amperage someone's set up draws instead? Is that not why we are tinkering around with the resistance of the coils and voltage/wattage output to achieve in the first place? To draw more amperage in the end (if thats what you like) so that our coils are hotter and vaporize the juice more? I mean besides our own likeness to how something vapes that we build, amperage and making sure our batteries can handle it is the big focus. Which brings me to wonder why VV/VW mods allow you to manipulate the voltage or wattage. Why not have a mod that directly lets you regulate the amperage flow instead of volts or watts, and does the math so if you were to select say 10 amps to be drawn out of your battery, the chip would know that you have say 1.0 ohms of resistance and would fire with 10v or 100w. Correct me if im wrong anywhere but as long as the amount/density of wick, and devices/attys used in the setup remain constant, wouldn't pulling 10 amps from a .5 ohm coil at 50 watts give you a relatively similar vape compared to a 1 ohm 100 watt setup. Obviously not exactly due to differences in surface area of wick covered by the coils and so forth but am i on the right track here at all? Sorry for the 2 part novel.

Ohms law..... If you have a mechanical mod... the voltage is already set... 4.2 on a fresh charge.... 3.5ish discharged... If you ask the ohms... say, like in your example, if you put that on a mech mod, it's pulling 4.2 amps, 17.2 watts.

That still doesn't answer the question, but it's a good base.. there's a lot more involved in it, but that states the basics. Wire gauge, voltage drop, wraps, etc.. they all play important roles... but the "what ohms are you running" is a base question coming from a mechanical mod's point of view.

If it's VV/VW.. the no question should matter... 10 amps on 22 gauge kanthal is different than 10 amps on 32 gauge kanthal on the same ohms.

Just a conversation starter I guess.

 

[WharfRat1976]

Because ohms law, it is more than just formulas.

Current and Voltage are directly proportional = more volts yield more amps.

By boosting voltage, it is boosting the current as well.

Current and resistance are inversely proportional = less resistance = more amps, which is why people sub ohm.

Current is dependant upon the voltage and resistance, and it is not possible to control current nearly as easy as it is voltage.

Power, is the real measure of work done and is the product of current and voltage.

And for the record, the guy in PBusardo's video introducing the DNA 40 board got something wrong, I don't care how he understands it, more power equals more heat, every time all the time.

Even in his description of the device, the device limits the temperature by throttleing back the power to maintian the temp.

He's either not an engineer, or he lacks the communications skills to accurately describe engineering principals.

Worst front man to hawk a product in the history of time. It was killing Busardo...just killing him.

 

[WharfRat1976]

It's the amps that kill ya though...[emoji12]

 

[Atrus]

So say I have 2 different builds, on the same atty. And the only difference is that one is built with 24 gauge and one with 28. Ohms, volt, watt, and amps the same on both. That 4 gauge difference will produce more vapor because more of the wick is covered. Correct? I mean it makes sense but i figured the amount of vapor wouldn't be noticeable. I havent built below 26g really and i started on 28 so i guess i should be experimenting more.

 

[Dampmaskin]

So say I have 2 different builds, on the same atty. And the only difference is that one is built with 24 gauge and one with 28. Ohms, volt, watt, and amps the same on both. That 4 gauge difference will produce more vapor because more of the wick is covered. Correct? I mean it makes sense but i figured the amount of vapor wouldn't be noticeable. I havent built below 26g really and i started on 28 so i guess i should be experimenting more.

Not necessarily. A bigger coil (the 24 gauge one) requires more power in order to reach a certain temperature, because the surface area is bigger, so it loses heat faster. If the 28 gauge coil reaches the boiling point of the liquid, and the 24 gauge coil doesn't, the 24 gauge coil will hardly produce any vapor.