Why only epuffer?

[sonnyinbc]

Talked to Lisa recently and she said they had complied with all Health Canada requirements so can still sell. She said they had submitted all required data.

Just wondering what`s up with all the other Canadian suppliers?/ They just "chicken ****". Or haven`t got their act together?? This is nut`s, what the hell is going on here??

I am not unhappy, just wondering why there is not more choice?? What is this= supplied all required data, and others have not??

Hey, lest we forget, I still love Lisa, yep, she is the best of the best when it comes to ecigs and getting the supplies thru. Just wondering what is wrong with the rest of the suppliers, just hoping these people haven`t given way to intimadation??

 

[Nuck]

I would love to know if this is factual. I'd call HC to verify but I'd hate to call and alert them to a supplier (even EPuffer) if she was exaggerating.

 

[WiηgC¤mmαηdεя]

I would love to know if this is factual. I'd call HC to verify but I'd hate to call and alert them to a supplier (even EPuffer) if she was exaggerating.

Hey Nuck,

Here is the response I received from Health Canada to a email I sent them. Response was dated Jun 15 2009 and was a tiff image, copied to word pad to post.
______________________________________________________________________________
Dear Mr. *****

Thank you for your correspondence of March 31,2009 concerning electronic cigarettes.
I regret the delay in responding.

Electronic cigarettes contain nicotine, which is a highly addictive and toxic substance.
Health products containing nicotine fall within the scope of the Food and Drugs Act.
Nicotine products currently on the market, such as nicotine gum, patches, inhalers and lozenges, have obtained market authorization from Health Canada. Like these products, electronic cigarettes must obtain market authorization before they can be imported or sold in Canada. A company wishing to market an electronic cigarette as a smoking cessation product in Canada would have to submit evidence to the Department clearly demonstating that the product is safe, effective, and of high quality under its recromended conditions of use, To date, Health Canada has not licensed for sale any electronic cigarette for use as a smoke cessation product.

For more information on Health Canada's tobacco control activities, and on tobacco in general, you may wish to visit our website at Tobacco - Main page .

Thank you for writing.
Sincerely,

Leona Aglukkaq

_____________________________________________________________________________
I wonder if I refer to it as a nicotine free novelty vaporizer if that would allow me to get the kits in for friends.

 

[lordmage]

i think the important item to pull out is "A company wishing to market an electronic cigarette as a smoking cessation product" so if a company was to not market as a NRT then they would have no issue?

 

[Prinz]

"A company wishing to market an electronic cigarette as a smoking cessation product in Canada"

They seem to be rather stuck on that bit.
I'm new here, but from what I've read so far that is not what the majority of the people are using it for.
I know that for me I like the nicotine and the hand to mouth action ( it gives me something to do when I'm working or otherwise looking at the computer screen and my brain tells me I should be multitasking). I just don't like the stinking ashtrays and all the additional junk you get from a regular cigarette.
So I don't plan on using it to stop taking nicotine.

It seems from all the statements from HC that if you would simply never mention using it as a smoking cessation device but rather as a cigarette without combustion that the Food and Drugs Act would not apply.

Also, I was browsing through the Food and Drugs Act, and it says this:

Prohibited advertising

3. (1) No person shall advertise any food, drug, cosmetic or device to the general public as a treatment, preventative or cure for any of the diseases, disorders or abnormal physical states referred to in Schedule A.

Prohibited label or advertisement where sale made

(2) No person shall sell any food, drug, cosmetic or device

(a) that is represented by label, or

(b) that the person advertises to the general public

as a treatment, preventative or cure for any of the diseases, disorders or abnormal physical states referred to in Schedule A.

SCHEDULE A

(Section 3)
*SNIP*

Addiction (except nicotine addiction)

*SNIP*


So on its own I don't see how that act prohibits the sale of nicotine and nicotine dispensers, even if you were to market it as smoking cessation devices.
Furthermore, even if the act does apply, it does not indicate anywhere that the manufacturers have to prove anything about safety, onus is on the other side. Innocent until proven guilty I'd say.

Prohibited sales of drugs

8. No person shall sell any drug that

(a) was manufactured, prepared, preserved, packaged or stored under unsanitary conditions; or

(b) is adulterated.

 

[Prinz]

Can't seem to edit my own post.

I wanted to add that perhaps they're basing their authority over it on jurisprudence, I wouldn't know where to find the relevant court cases though

In addition they might just be miffed that people are enjoying nicotine without cigarettes and they weren't consulted about it, and now they're going on the " well this has always been our policy so therefore it must be in the law".

 

[SuperStack]

"A company wishing to market an electronic cigarette as a smoking cessation product in Canada"

but from what I've read so far that is not what the majority of the people are using it for.

Notice they state "smoking cessation" and not "nicotine cessation".

So indeed, that is what most people use it for (a replacement for smoking tobacco)

Vaping is not smoking - it merely mimics it

However marketing them as smoking cessation products is still a no-no obviously. As is the inclusion of any/all health claims.

 

[lordmage]

yes but market as a simple alternative without health claims makes it fall into another area and not a NRT or SRT.

 

[Nuck]

So are EPuffer full of it or are did they find a way around it? Sonny..the next time you talk to Lisa can you find out some details. If there is a way for other Canadian suppliers to come out of the closet then we all win.

 

[Goosehead]

Finally! I've been searching the forum to see if it's safe to order from some of these sites. So should I feel safe (as a Canadian) ordering from epuffer? The site says they're based in NY, London, and Paris. Is there a specific Canadian distributor for them? Obviously I'm very very new to all this.

 

[sheilalynn]

Finally! I've been searching the forum to see if it's safe to order from some of these sites. So should I feel safe (as a Canadian) ordering from epuffer? The site says they're based in NY, London, and Paris. Is there a specific Canadian distributor for them? Obviously I'm very very new to all this.

They are in Canada...not sure why it says NY/London/Paris. thought it was weird myself!

My very first order was to epuffer.com, but that was before I found this forum. Still can't complain though since the Elite Classic (aka 801) I ordered from them is still going strong after a month and a half, and they did include enough extras to make it worth it. Shipping was just slower than anyone else in here since I'm in the states.

The only suggestion I have with ordering from epuffer is to email and ask if what you want is in stock. Otherwise you might not know for a while and wonder what's taking it so long. Even though it said what I wanted to order was in stock, I didn't know until after I paid and emailed them the next day that what I ordered wasn't in stock. I was just told that I could order a different color and would still get all the extras that were included in the special I had ordered. When I got the package, they had included an extra bottle of the juice, which I thought was pretty nice of them. I got the atomizer, 2 batteries, 20 prefilled carts, the charger, and 2 30ml bottles of juice for $89.

There are much better deals in here with others, but if you are in Canada, I'd say they're definitely worth a shot if the postage is less than it is to buy from someone in the states, but only if you're getting a full kit. Their replacement parts are ridiculously expensive...$30 for one atomizer or $60 for a pack of 3 atomizers and $40 for a battery, yikes!

 

[Goosehead]

Thanks SheilaLynn!

 

[Nuck]

There are much cheaper Canadian suppliers. Check the sticky in these Canadian forums. There are 3 really good suppliers that are reasonable and that cover all the popular models.

 

[Goosehead]

I've seen them, but there seems to be so many concerns about who's selling and who's not right now. The impression I get from this thread is that only epuffer is selling. Am I misunderstanding something? (PS: I've sent a message to vapesmart to see if they're selling also)

 

[Nuck]

I've seen them, but there seems to be so many concerns about who's selling and who's not right now. The impression I get from this thread is that only epuffer is selling. Am I misunderstanding something? (PS: I've sent a message to vapesmart to see if they're selling also)

Which model are you looking for?

Edit: There are quite a few Canadian sellers. I can think of 5 off the top of my head.

 

[PrairieJim]

It seems they've carefully specified the amount of nicotine in carts, for example they list Nicotine level in carts as: Low-.6 mg medium- 1.1 and high-1.6 mg which certainly falls well within Health Canada's guidelines.

Also e liquid is rated differently: Strong 2.4 mg high 1.6 medium 1.1 and low .6. This appears to be based on the 4-5 drops to refill the carts.

So maybe they got around the Health Canada problem simply by rewording the product specs to something Health Canada understands.

 

[Nuck]

It seems they've carefully specified the amount of nicotine in carts, for example they list Nicotine level in carts as: Low-.6 mg medium- 1.1 and high-1.6 mg which certainly falls well within Health Canada's guidelines.

Also e liquid is rated differently: Strong 2.4 mg high 1.6 medium 1.1 and low .6. This appears to be based on the 4-5 drops to refill the carts.

So maybe they got around the Health Canada problem simply by rewording the product specs to something Health Canada understands.

I don't think they have gotten around HC. I'm pretty sure they just continue to sell like the other Canadian vendors. Apparently HC is unaware that EPuffer has been given the green light as well.

 

[Bones]

"A company wishing to market an electronic cigarette as a smoking cessation product in Canada"

They seem to be rather stuck on that bit.

They are "stuck on that bit" Because The companies started to market it as such without going through approval process - There was no attempt to ban or stop these products anywhere until distributors started to CLAIM that the were cessation products = Shot themselves in the foot with that really - And still - They are simply saying that now that the claim has been made they have to go through that process and back those claims up with facts - All will be good - A little more pricey perhaps - But e-cigs are out of the box - No putting them back now -

 

[PrairieJim]

I don't think they have gotten around HC. I'm pretty sure they just continue to sell like the other Canadian vendors. Apparently HC is unaware that EPuffer has been given the green light as well.

You are probably right. I didn't see a "CSA approved" logo on any of their advertised products, or any claims of being approved by Health Canada anywhere on the web site.

If it was they'd be advertising it loud and proud. It wouldn't be much of a problem to have the vaporizers and chargers themselves inspected and CSA certified. I would think it's only a formality to have the carts themselves certified by health Canada as a nicotine delivery system as well. Nobody has bothered as of yet it appears.

One reason why nobody has is because it wouldn't be worth the bother and expense unless guarantied by manufacturers to have distributorship rights.
So it's really up to manufacturers themselves to go through those hoops.

 

[shadowseb]

Hi, its my first post in the forum. I discover it after I buy my e-cigarette. If before, i discovred it, i think buy on other site than epuffer, because its overprice, but, the service and shipping are both excellent and fast (order wednesday, received monday). Anyway, my question is: I buy the Epuffer Elite Classic, but this model dont have any PCC available, and when I look a DES-801 models, it seems to be the same. So my question have a double side: Epuffer Elite Classic it's a DSE-801? And if yes, there's any PCC compatible and/or available?

I can modify a little bit other PCC with instruction

Thank you!

Shadowseb