Wire Gauge

[Postalangel]

Hey everybody!!! I know it's a day late but but all of the vets out there-from the bottom of my heart, i thank you so much for the many sacrifices u made to go out there & fight to protect our freedom, liberties & our pursuit of happiness... My Dad was a vet who thought me to ALWAYS thank vets that I meet so rest assured, I appreciate u every day of the year. Youre in my prayers always. May God Bless You All
On a different note, I'm still a beginner but I think I'm doing pretty well with building my RDAs, I just need a little more practice. However I do have 1 hopefully short question. I'm using a Hellboy & a Troll RDA that I run on either my ar 15 clone or my 100w eleaf istick. I'm wrapping 24 gauge Kanthal A1 on a 3.0 mm jig...I'll admit, I'm a cloud chaser & according to my vape calculator, I need 4 wraps to bring the ohms down to .2 but no matter what I do, I can't seem to get the ohms any lower & I would like them to be as low as possible. Should I try using a different gauge of Kanthal? Or should I try a different wire altogether? I'm not ready for Clapton coils yet although they do intrigue me. (I run dual coils on both of my rda's). Anybody have any suggestions on how to get my ohms as low as possible? Besides the diameter of the wire, whats the difference between the sizes? Also, I hear people using 2 pieces of Kanthal to wrap 1 coil...what is the benefit of this?

 

[CRizzo7]

Hey everybody!!! I know it's a day late but but all of the vets out there-from the bottom of my heart, i thank you so much for the many sacrifices u made to go out there & fight to protect our freedom, liberties & our pursuit of happiness... My Dad was a vet who thought me to ALWAYS thank vets that I meet so rest assured, I appreciate u every day of the year. Youre in my prayers always. May God Bless You All
On a different note, I'm still a beginner but I think I'm doing pretty well with building my RDAs, I just need a little more practice. However I do have 1 hopefully short question. I'm using a Hellboy & a Troll RDA that I run on either my ar 15 clone or my 100w eleaf istick. I'm wrapping 24 gauge Kanthal A1 on a 3.0 mm jig...I'll admit, I'm a cloud chaser & according to my vape calculator, I need 4 wraps to bring the ohms down to .2 but no matter what I do, I can't seem to get the ohms any lower & I would like them to be as low as possible. Should I try using a different gauge of Kanthal? Or should I try a different wire altogether? I'm not ready for Clapton coils yet although they do intrigue me. (I run dual coils on both of my rda's). Anybody have any suggestions on how to get my ohms as low as possible? Besides the diameter of the wire, whats the difference between the sizes? Also, I hear people using 2 pieces of Kanthal to wrap 1 coil...what is the benefit of this?

If I get into my "cloud chasing mode," which is pretty rare because I just enjoy a nice smooth vape, have you tried a quad setup? I couldn't keep coils the size I preferred while lowering ohms to what I was seeking. The quad builds do seem to drop the ohms drastically. Just be careful with the build and make sure to slap it on an ohm meter. Good luck and stay safe.

 

[dbrandt01]

Why build low to begin with though? Why build under 0.2 ohms? Do you know battery safety and ohms law? Especially if you're running this on the AR15 clone. People tend to think you need low ohms for clouds, when in reality I was getting as much clouds at 0.5 ohms and 50w and someone with 0.2 ohms on a mech mod was getting. You would have to go less wraps which isn't safe. Surface area is everything with vaping and building.

You'd have to twist it or go lower gauge wire. Just keep in mind, battery safety again. Plus on a mech mod with lower gauge wire, heating up the coil will be harder and take more time.

 

[Needo]

I agree with dbrandt01 about surface area being everything. I think you might like the results of a quad build if you have room on your deck.

 

[Postalangel]

Why build low to begin with though? Why build under 0.2 ohms? Do you know battery safety and ohms law? Especially if you're running this on the AR15 clone. People tend to think you need low ohms for clouds, when in reality I was getting as much clouds at 0.5 ohms and 50w and someone with 0.2 ohms on a mech mod was getting. You would have to go less wraps which isn't safe. Surface area is everything with vaping and building.

You'd have to twist it or go lower gauge wire. Just keep in mind, battery safety again. Plus on a mech mod with lower gauge wire, heating up the coil will be harder and take more time.

As I said in the beginning I'm still and I'm in the process of learning how to build coils. I have built them successfully I just wanted to try to fine tune it to my taste. I do not know ohms law off the top of my head but I never touch my mod, RDA nor do I even touch a piece of Kanthal wire before I run the specs through my "Vaper Calculator" app 1st. When I entered my specs into that app and the desired ohms it said that I would be running my battery at 6 Volts & 180 Watts. I would be ok running that with my lg he4 battery but perhaps he was wrong. Again I'm just a beginner trying to figure it all out I've been trying to build on RDAs that have four post because on my fishbone RDA, for example, there is only 3 posts on it and my fat fingers have a hard time getting two wires through the same hole plus I wasn't too crazy about the air holes being at the bottom near the juice well... so you say a quad coil will lower my ohm resistance? Stupid question... Do I need a certain type of RDA to make quad coils or can I do it with an idea that has two- post and well one positive post with 2 holes for the wires? And what do you mean by twisting the wires? When they used to separate wires to make one coil?

 

[Postalangel]

Sorry voice 2 text messes me up... what I was trying to say is that I ran my specs through my app and put in my desired resistance of .2 ohms it said to do 4 wraps & that I would be running my battery on 6 Volts+ 180 Watts. I asked a worker at a vape shop if that was OK & he said it was. Was he wrong? And besides whatever my target resistance is, I do exactly what they tell me to do but once I get the coils on to the ohm reader, the actual ohm reading is higher than my target. Also when you say twisting the wire is that when you take two wires and wrap those two wires together to make one coil?

 

[IMFire3605]

I'll jump in with a battery safety caution myself when on your AR. Even with a Sony VTC3 or LG HB6 (both 30amp CDR batteries), lowest you want to go on a mech is 0.25ohms with a 30amp battery, that is skirting safety incase of an "UH OH" unexpected short or pocket fire being the AR is a recessed switch with no lock. Even if you could build down and push the limits of 0.14 to 0.15ohms (that's full 30amps at full 4.2v charge) there is no safety room, get a short that battery will go thermal on you at that level.

The iStick100watt, 100watts is all you got, might get a bit higher on the AR, but still that would require a lower gauge wire and a 30amp battery like the Sony VTC3 and VTC4 or the LG HB6, if you are using the same brand battery like a Samsung 25R or other battery which is 20ampCDR about 0.35 to 0.4ohms is the lowest I would build on the AR, the iStick you can go about where you want up to its max wattage/voltage output and lowest ohm capacity and go all day long. Cloud chasing you get to a point of skirting with safety while getting diminishing returns on output, cost of batteries, cost of replacing RDA insulators, price of e-liquid consumed.

I'd start looking at perfecting your wicking technique, airflow in and airflow of your drip tip before looking at going lower, to much wicking can block proper airflow, where you coil placement is can affect the vortex inside and decrease the cloud production, these three areas can improve cloud output more than lower ohms and higher watts. You could also look at twisted wire or parallel configs are well to add more surface area while adding more wraps, a parallel 26awg 8/7 config can a lot of times outperform a single wire 26awg 4/3 wrap a lot of times.

 

[Canadian_Vaper]

Edit* My bad should have read better

Sounds like both coils are reading as one coil for some reason, maybe a insulator is bad?

4 wraps @ 3mm should give you 4 ohms for a single coils, doubling it should cut that in half so it may be a hardware problem.

Generally I don't go under .3 just for safety reasons...

 

[Bunnykiller]

if you are using a mech mod... dont go below .2, there are no batteries out there that can handle a less than .2 ohm build safely for extended use... and get an ohm meter pronto.... those calculators are basically a guideline, you need to check the actual ohms once its built, the atty itself can change the ohms a bit once the coil is installed...
my clouder builds in my Velocity and CLT run .3 - .5 ohms....

be safe and keep the batteries happy... if you PO the batteries, they can behave in ways you dont want to see...

 

[Bunnykiller]

if you have access to youtube, check out parallel coils, twisted single how to videos

 

[Postalangel]

if you are using a mech mod... dont go below .2, there are no batteries out there that can handle a less than .2 ohm build safely for extended use... and get an ohm meter pronto.... those calculators are basically a guideline, you need to check the actual ohms once its built, the atty itself can change the ohms a bit once the coil is installed...
my clouder builds in my Velocity and CLT run .3 - .5 ohms....

be safe and keep the batteries happy... if you PO the batteries, they can behave in ways you dont want to see...

Hey Bunny...thanks 4 the info. I do have an ohm reader, like I said in my first post I would not touch a coil or even so much as a piece of cotton unless I had an ohm meter. I only use the "Vapors Toolbox" app so I know how many wraps I need to get it to the ohms that I want then I attach my dripper to my mod, pulse it, I make sure that the coils are heating up from the inside out, and I check to make sure that both coils are firing up at the same time if there is one that's firing up first then I use my ceramic tweezers to play around with it until they both heat up at the same time & then I put the cotton thru... everything seems to work fine but then I notice that after a couple of hours, the cotton in one coil will be completely dry while the cotton in the other coil is still saturated so I know I'm doing something wrong I was just looking for some input. When i bought the LG HE4 batteries, according 2 the specs, its 35 continuous amps & I couldn't find anything higher. Should I go with a different mod that uses a battery larger than an 18650? Also I wanted to ask you all--- what gauge of kanthal wire do you think is best for me to use? I've only been working with 24 gauge up until now. But given the fact that I like my ohms to be very low and I like a lot of vapor should I be working with a different gauge of wire? I'd love all of your opinions on that. Sorry about all the stupid questions

 

[Coolhandluke]

try tightening your post screws after your fire your mod. crank them down as much as you can without breaking anything or stripping them. i had the same problem with my cotton and i found that when i turned my screw heads with pliers it gives the coils a better connection especially the middle post with two wires going trough it. it alos makes the coils burn even. from my personal exp. if the atty is a really cheap clone then you probably will never get the coils to burn even.

 

[suprtrkr]

First a caveat: .2 is far lower than I would go. At that resistance you're drawing 21 amperes on a full charge battery, and that's more than I like to ask from a single 18650. Your iStick is a dual cell regulated mod, so it's going to be a lot safer, but it's only rated down to .15 ohms so you can't go a lot lower anyway. You don't mention what batteries you're using, but I would (seriously) suggest Sony VTC4s. You can get them authentic at RTDVapor, Illumn and Orbtronic.

All that said, shorter wire (fewer wraps) or larger diameter (larger gauge) wire will lower resistance. The Steam Engine Coil Calculator tells me a 3/4 wrap dual set in 24 gauge will ohm out around .1 ohms. Of course, the Ohms Law Calculator also tells me, at 4.2 volts, that coil will draw 42 amperes, which is enough to blow up any commonly available battery in your AR, and will produce 176 watts at the coil. Steam Engine also tells me that coil at that voltage will make 1943 mW/mm^2 at the wire surface, which will probably also scorch your juice.

I repeat I do not think this is a good idea. If you absolutely have to go that low-- .1 ohms is only .03 ohms more resistive than the dead short test for batteries-- you really need a dual parallel box mod with VTC4s or, better still, LG HB2s or LG HB6s. Good luck and stay safe out there.

 

[Postalangel]

First a caveat: .2 is far lower than I would go. At that resistance you're drawing 21 amperes on a full charge battery, and that's more than I like to ask from a single 18650. Your iStick is a dual cell regulated mod, so it's going to be a lot safer, but it's only rated down to .15 ohms so you can't go a lot lower anyway. You don't mention what batteries you're using, but I would (seriously) suggest Sony VTC4s. You can get them authentic at RTDVapor, Illumn and Orbtronic.

All that said, shorter wire (fewer wraps) or larger diameter (larger gauge) wire will lower resistance. The Steam Engine Coil Calculator tells me a 3/4 wrap dual set in 24 gauge will ohm out around .1 ohms. Of course, the Ohms Law Calculator also tells me, at 4.2 volts, that coil will draw 42 amperes, which is enough to blow up any commonly available battery in your AR, and will produce 176 watts at the coil. Steam Engine also tells me that coil at that voltage will make 1943 mW/mm^2 at the wire surface, which will probably also scorch your juice.

I repeat I do not think this is a good idea. If you absolutely have to go that low-- .1 ohms is only .03 ohms more resistive than the dead short test for batteries-- you really need a dual parallel box mod with VTC4s or, better still, LG HB2s or LG HB6s. Good luck and stay safe out there.

Thanks, I'll take your advice...in my box mod, I use 2 LG he4 35 continuous amps. In my ar 15, (depending on which fully charged battery i have on me at the time) I use a Sony vtc4, LG he4 or a subohmcell which I'm told is a rewrapped Sony vtc4. On my ar 15 with a Troll RDA, I did a 5/6 wrap, 24 Gauge Kanthal A1 on a 3.0 mm jig stick & I'm getting a reading of .3 ohms. On my box mod with my Hellboy RDA, I did a 4/5 wrap, 24 Gauge, 3.0 jig, & my readings fluctuate between .2-.3. I know there are mods that don't use 18650 batteries---are those mods more powerful than the mods that just run on a single 18650?

 

[Postalangel]

I thought the LG he4 runs 35 continuous amps

 

[Postalangel]

Do u think I should stick with 24 Gauge or is 26,28 better?

 

[suprtrkr]

Thanks, I'll take your advice...in my box mod, I use 2 LG he4 35 continuous amps. In my ar 15, (depending on which fully charged battery i have on me at the time) I use a Sony vtc4, LG he4 or a subohmcell which I'm told is a rewrapped Sony vtc4. On my ar 15 with a Troll RDA, I did a 5/6 wrap, 24 Gauge Kanthal A1 on a 3.0 mm jig stick & I'm getting a reading of .3 ohms. On my box mod with my Hellboy RDA, I did a 4/5 wrap, 24 Gauge, 3.0 jig, & my readings fluctuate between .2-.3. I know there are mods that don't use 18650 batteries---are those mods more powerful than the mods that just run on a single 18650?

Good deal. You sound like you know what you're talking about and those are good batteries. A couple of points: I don't like re-wrap batteries. Your Subohm cell may be a rewrapped VTC4, or it may not be. The problem is, you can't really tell. It's possible to see it isn't a VTC4-- the size, shape, number and position of the vent holes around the positive pole, the shape of the can at the heel, etc.-- but even it it all matches all it means is it looks like one and says nothing about the chemistry of the battery itself. I don't say don't use it. I do say be careful. Next, according to Mooch's cell test chart-- @Mooch is one of our resident battery guru and actually does bench tests on batteries-- your HE4s are 20 amp CDR batteries. That's not a bad thing, of course, but it also isn't 35 amps, no matter what the label says. Next, one handy way to gain a rough and ready idea of the power rating of a battery that can be tested with nothing more than a good battery charger, is look at the mAh rating. Generally, mAh varies indirectly with CDR; that is, the more power the battery will handle, the less capacity it has. If somebody tells you they've got a 50 amp, 4000 mAh battery, and you can buy these magic wands for 15 bucks each, they're lying or mistaken. The LG HB6, for example, is an honest 30 amp CDR battery but it only holds 1500 mAh. My favorite Sony VTC4s are 20 amp CDR rated, but according to the bench tests can be safely run to 30 amps without dangerous overheating, albeit this shortens their lifespan. They hold 2100 mAh. Another common, and really good, battery, is the Samsung 25R. It's a 20 amp also, and it's limited there. It holds 2500 mAh. So that's just something to think about. Mooch informs me there are special chemistry batteries that can exceed 30 amps CDR, or hold ungodly capacity, but these are special purpose, not commonly available, and cost hundreds of dollars each. Finally, there certainly are mods using other batteries than 18650s. I own several myself. The ability of those mods to throw power, however, is dependent on their electronics if regulated, and always on the batteries. It's the batteries that control the power output. AFAIK, there are no 18xxx batteries more powerful than the 650s. I have an 18350 tube for my MMV Nanos, for example, which I use in the car, but I won't coil a tank below about .7 on that rig because the battery can't handle it. When I use the 18650 tube, and can put a VTC4 in it, I am comfortable in the .4-.5 range with no problems. There are LiPo-- lithium polymer-- batteries that are rated higher than 18650. They use them in RC race cars and helicopters and such. I saw one once that was a 4S LiPo rated at 5000 mAh and 75C. That battery throws 16.8 volts at 375 amps! I really wanted to build a mod around that one, lol. (It was also 2 inches square and 7 inches long, it would not have been small.) But I don't know any mods to tell you that use such high rated parts. Building one is, of course, an option. Generally, most commercially available parts will use either 18- or 22- series batteries if they are interchangeable. LiPos are usually fixed batteries and must be charged in the mod. If you can get a dual 18650 parallel mod, you can gain greater amperage. Parallel mods use two (or more) batteries, connecting the positive poles and the negative poles together. This keeps voltage the same as one battery, but doubles (or triples, however many batteries there are) the available amperage. The other way is a series mod, where the batteries are arranged nose to tail with one battery's positive connected the other's negative pole. This doubles the voltage, but keeps the same amperage as one battery. If you really want to get below .2 ohms, a parallel mod is the way to go. A two battery mod would let you run VTC4s (if you don't mind ruining them) or HB6s at 60 amps; a three battery mod would give 90 amps, and that'd get you down to .1 ohms fairly safely. Good luck, and stay safe

 

[Mooch]

I thought the LG he4 runs 35 continuous amps

As @suprtrkr mentioned, the HE4 is a 20A battery. And the Subohmcell was definitely not a VTC4 when
I tested it.

The mod's power ratings aren't always tied directly to the battery type that's used. You can have low power LiPo mods (iStick 20W) or high power ones (Lavabox or other DNA200 mods). And you can have lower power 18650 mods (ipv d2 or iStick 60W) or higher power ones (Reuleaux DNA200). And all sorts of combinations for the unregulated box mods.

 

[Postalangel]

Wow, I don't understand why they are so misleading...somebody I work with who is a competitive vaper was raving about subohmcells & when I saw the 35A stamp on the battery, I thought that finally somebody is making batteries just for vaping... until I found out that they're just rewrapped Sonys. But I was happy fat it was really A Sony and not one of those batteries that have the word "fire" in it!!! Lol... But I have to say I'm shocked to hear that my LG batteries are not 35's. I had such high hopes for the LG's especially after putting them in my istick 100w--- those were the only batteries that have allowed me to smoke my istick at 100 watts... the only problem I had with the LGs & the subohmcell is that when I put them in my battery charger, which usually takes about 12 hours to charge a battery or a set of batteries, never seems 2 charge them up to 100% and I don't know if I'm simply not giving them enough time, or maybe the charger itself isn't strong enough? I don't know. Maybe I'll try 2 charge 1 battery at a time but I don't like 2 split batteries up after I've married them. I think i should just stick with the Sony vtc4--- they sound like they are the only reasonably priced battery out there that can handle 30A. Ive seen some other brands kind of creeping onto the scene like "Vamped" that all claim that they are 30A but, if I understand you correctly, I should be looking for a battery with low mAh? Thank u for the advice on parallel & series mods, I'll definitely start shopping around for one of those but are they regulated or other unregulated? Hey dumb question, my I stick runs on 2 18650 batteries. So how come that is not considered a parallel or a series mod?

 

[Mooch]

If you stick with Samsung, Sony, and LG batteries you can't go wrong. See my Safety Grades table (link in my signature) for the actual ratings for over fifty batteries I've tested. And how hard you can run them.

Sounds like it would be a good thing to invest in a new charger. One that can charge at 1A or so, even with multiple batteries.

IIRC, the iStick 100W is a parallel mod. LG 20A 3000mAh HG2's are a great choice for it.