Worries about China and Quality Control...

[The Fool]

Okay, after months of vaping, I have finally decided to deal with one of the things that has bothered me. I know that many of the juices I have used thus far have come from China and bottom line, I don't trust China to keep a good eye on quality control. Just think about bad drywall in Florida and lead paint on toys. I was on a mission to find some totally American made juice. So, I sent out several letters to suppliers here asking if their ingredients came from China. For the most part, I got short *yes* answers, but this morning I got a very thoughtful letter from one. In his letter he explained to me that while his bottles were USA and PG and VG were USA, that liquid nicotiene made here in the USA labs were only sold in small quantities or contained contaminants that made them unsuitable for vaping. He added that there were only 3 countries that produce the liquid nicotiene, China, India and Belgium. He bought his nicotine from a lab in China and then diluted it.

It made me wonder if this was the case for all our American suppliers? If so, does this trouble anyone else? Perhaps one of you has a piece of information that can quell my fears.

It just seems that with the explosion of the popularity of the e-cigarette, that the demand for liquid nicotiene would have gone through the roof. China has a history of cutting corners in their manufacturing processes and bribery is just a part of doing business there.

I realize that the FDA did tests on a variety of e-liquids a while back and that only one of the dozen or so had any contaminants, but, that the nicotiene levels did vary.

Any information you could give me or point me towards would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[prophetr1]

I am definiely not a super partriot where everyhting i get has to be from america...(hence i drive an acura) there are somethings that are just made better abroad. and in so many aspect Asia is so far ahead of us here in the western hemisphere....think about the places u have worked here in the good ole USA through out ur lifetime and the bs and shortcuts u have seen taken...loopholes etc. and think about the asian people as a whole they have way more discipline and respect than the average american .... here is something else that may ease ur mind...

VIDEO CLICK HERE

 

[prophetr1]

now i will say this if ur choosing american E-liquids to keep our fellow americans employed thats another thing...but just like all the bad hype ecigs get as a whole from the media and publications dont u think some of this is true for the reports about chinese products and e liquids...EVERYTHING is POLITICAL ....just my 0.02...
happy vaping and whatevery u choose is fine as long as ur good with it

 

[The Fool]

Thank you for that prophetr1! That does make me feel better. I know that I was generalizing about China, expressing my worst fears. I don't often make a special point in only buying American products, but at least here, if there is harm done there is recourse through the judicial system. I may be deluding myself into thinking that I am any safer because of that fact.

 

[7thCabal]

I think most DIY peeps know where there nic comes from even when sourced (not manufactured) in the USA. Most worries IMO come from the human element in the process & not so much the facility. China is mass producing for the world of e-cigs & it's product crosses a lot of hands (check the video-- no gloves, manually filling bottles... -1 for all the sanitation hype). Which precludes consistency issues among Dekang e-liquid carrying the same name, so how many facilities does it take to supply the e-cig world anyway?

Personally I prefer US (made) mixed liquids... though some of the money I spend goes to other countries I'd rather a majority of it stay here, just looking out for John Doe America IMHO.

 

[Zelphie]

I was under the impression that most us suppliers simply buy chinese raw materials such as pg vg and the nic solution and "mix them in the us" hence "usa made" lol, and then mix it with a variety of flavorings of their personal choice coming from various parts of the world.

There may be a couple that actually source their materials in the us but I personaly would not trust it anymore than china, theres no info on us sourcing and processing any more than china as far as I know. It a leap of faith, im my case I take the rather nihilistic attitude "everythigs bad for you with hidden ingredients and questionable processing, so whats the difference'

But I vape anyway...its yummy and all I REALLY know is that, while they may be fatel levels of lead or whatever in my vape (semi sarcastic) I know cigs are bad for wrinkles....oh ya and they kill ya to.

Is vaping better? It seems plausable. I hope!

 

[radicaljd]

I am definiely not a super partriot where everyhting i get has to be from america...(hence i drive an acura) there are somethings that are just made better abroad. and in so many aspect Asia is so far ahead of us here in the western hemisphere....think about the places u have worked here in the good ole USA through out ur lifetime and the bs and shortcuts u have seen taken...loopholes etc. and think about the asian people as a whole they have way more discipline and respect than the average american

I would feel better if the ingredients were made in Japan. How many Chinese cars have you seen on the road lately?

RadicalJD

 

[scott58]

Best way to control quality is make it yourself. The money you keep in this country is actually in your own pocket.

 

[zoiDman]

Well if you see it on You-Tube it has to be True !!!

One question. How can I tell if my cartos or Juice came from that facility and are not Cheap Knock-Offs made in the Ghettos of Beijing?

 

[Bombenhagel]

Hey guy, be careful what you wish for...






I know just what you mean, but you shouldn't actually fear for your safety. You should just brood for your country, which is where I can identify. I am insulted as an (not too particularly nationalistic... patriotic, clearly. nationalistic? too many confuse that with patriotism) American that we are not making this stuff Stateside and that all my favorite toys seem to be made in China.

There have been some high profile quality issues, definitely. I don't know enough about doing business in China to know the game. Maybe corruption plays a part, but supposedly with international standards like ISO 9001 and now the food safety one, ISO 22000, enough info can be gathered at audit time to give reasonable assurance to the customer that things are done the same way every single time, with little to no deviation in product from production run to production run.

Wow! All in one breath..!

Seriously, though. What I do know of the Chinese is that when a project reaches its first major benchmark and passes, that project is complete. "Oh, version 1.0 is working? Great. It's a wrap. Let's unleash it in the marketplace so we can immediately and for as long as possible reap the benefits of the work we put into it. Let's turn it loose to work for us..."

Tangent. What I am saying is that those dudes "make hay" when they can, which is only natural, but because there are largely no Chinese regulations on product manufacturers, especially for exporters, 3rd party or independent audits can serve as a brief snapshot of what is likely going on day-to-day in the manufacturing operation.

BOGE (bogetech) is the largest single supplier of nic juice in the world. They claim to supply 90% of the current output of eliquid I recently read.... BOGE owns DeKang, which from what I gather is their distribution arm.

What about quality? Right. Look here: New produts,E liquid,Electronic Cigarette?s Accessory- Shenzhen Boge Technology Co.,Ltd.

You can see they are registered in 3 standards I am familiar with...

ISO 9001:2008 - 9001 standard, 2008 revision. This describes requirements of a Quality Management System.

ISO 22000:2005 - the food safety standard based on HACCP Codex Alimentarius.

ISO 13485:2003 - the 13485 standard describes QMS requirements plus additional requirements for manufacturers of medical devices.

Those 3 are very difficult to register alone (not least of which is because implementing any QMS is such a pain in the ....), let alone as part of an integrated management system including all 3 plus all those other nation-specific hoops they've jumped through?

Then go over to DeKang - Changning Dekang Biotechnology Co., Ltd.

They have formulae verified by SGS, a tough as nails registrar out of Switzerland. A product can never be registered under a standard (you can't say your ice cream is ISO 9001:2008 certified/registered/conformant, but you can advertise ON your ice cream PACKAGE that your COMPANY is registered to ISO 9001), but SGS wouldn't have issued that consistency "gold star certificates" on the formulas if they varied at ALL from run to run.

So yeah. I think e smoking rules. I am sorry my government is not promoting it as a superior alternative to smoking and rather letting big money hijack the dialogue (again). I am sorry my country is not making the supplies we need. That said, while I don't particularly like the Chinese way of government, either, they are out-capitalism-ing the hell out of us and in this case I trust the product. The juice is legit.

 

[Bombenhagel]

Thought I wasn't posting...

 

[Bombenhagel]

Don't want any part of that, TYVM.

 

[CJsKee]

Thanks for this, Bomb...I have seen those certificates before, but lost track of them. I'm going to bookmark this page so I'll have it...there is always someone questioning Chinese e-liquid quality.

 

[zoiDman]

....

BOGE (bogetech) is the largest single supplier of nic juice in the world. They claim to supply 90% of the current output of eliquid I recently read.... BOGE owns DeKang, which from what I gather is their distribution arm.

What about quality? Right. Look here: New produts,E liquid,Electronic Cigarette?s Accessory- Shenzhen Boge Technology Co.,Ltd.

You can see they are registered in 3 standards I am familiar with...

ISO 9001:2008 - 9001 standard, 2008 revision. This describes requirements of a Quality Management System.

ISO 22000:2005 - the food safety standard based on HACCP Codex Alimentarius.

ISO 13485:2003 - the 13485 standard describes QMS requirements plus additional requirements for manufacturers of medical devices.

Those 3 are very difficult to register alone (not least of which is because implementing any QMS is such a pain in the ....), let alone as part of an integrated management system including all 3 plus all those other nation-specific hoops they've jumped through?

Then go over to DeKang - Changning Dekang Biotechnology Co., Ltd.

They have formulae verified by SGS, a tough as nails registrar out of Switzerland. A product can never be registered under a standard (you can't say your ice cream is ISO 9001:2008 certified/registered/conformant, but you can advertise ON your ice cream PACKAGE that your COMPANY is registered to ISO 9001), but SGS wouldn't have issued that consistency "gold star certificates" on the formulas if they varied at ALL from run to run.

...

That's all well and good but are we forgetting something?

All this only applies if you are Actually getting a Boge product.

I’m not saying that Anyone would ever do this but with the huge amount of money to be gained, in a completely unregulated market, that a dishonest manufacture could produce cheap knock-off and then silkscreen a SGS logo on a box.

Of course a country like China, with there strict enforcement of Trademark / Copyright laws and there untarnished reputation for producing quality products which adhere to International Standards would never allow something like this to occur.

And since all of these e-Cig products come clearly “Branded” with manufacture information on the product and on the packaging, we as consumers know what we are buying.

Right?

I mean it’s not like you can buy the latest iPhone on the streets of China 3 months before the real one comes out from Apple. And e-Juice and Cartomizers it would seem would be much harder to clone that a cell phone?