Yea the blips at the bottom in the image your talking about are about .75v whereas the 49hz spike is at 3.89v after temp limiting is hit.
Yihi SX350J Technology Discussion Thread
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Yea the blips at the bottom in the image your talking about are about .75v whereas the 49hz spike is at 3.89v after temp limiting is hit.
Oh, I don't think we can say that definitively at this point... Just my guess. I'm looking forward to Phil Busardo's review, he should have some good O-Scope readings for us to look at.
Not saying yours are bad, Vlad, he just uses a more professional grade scope.
I agree he should definitely be able to dig into the trace a lot deeper than I can. My captures were not intended to identify any of the logic behind how they're doing the temp limiting at all, only if it was PWM or not.
There's nothing wrong with those scope shots Vlad, thanks for posting.
Edit - checking your scope shots from the other thread Vlad, it looks like the sx mini is using pwm once the set temp is reached. It still measures the coil temp 50 times a second and throws in a 20mS pulse as required to maintain temp.
Edit - checking your scope shots from the other thread Vlad, it looks like the sx mini is using pwm once the set temp is reached. It still measures the coil temp 50 times a second and throws in a 20mS pulse as required to maintain temp.
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I don't know about what it's doing after temp limit is engaged I didn't look at those signals closely enough to determine that. But yes from those captures you can see the 20ms pulse what I think Dam718 was calling blips and that could very well be the maintenance voltage to maintain temp. I would want to take some more captures at different joule settings to compare side by side to see if there's a difference in frequency, amplitude or duty cycle before I form an opinion. Maybe I'll do that later on today.
On another note I have found a way for me to hear the sound. If you take an empty 30 ml bottle with lid on
Place the bottom of the bottle on the left side of the SXmini,
Then put the bottle top in your ear while holding against the SXmini
Hit the fire button
I'm able to hear it this way were before I could not. It also seems easier to hear on the left side than on the right side of the device.
On another note I have found a way for me to hear the sound. If you take an empty 30 ml bottle with lid on
Place the bottom of the bottle on the left side of the SXmini,
Then put the bottle top in your ear while holding against the SXmini
Hit the fire button
I'm able to hear it this way were before I could not. It also seems easier to hear on the left side than on the right side of the device.
Big Phil's testing must be the most anticipated in vaping history! I watched his DNA40 2 part testing from last month and was impressed given the testing equipment he has access to.
Given what I know about YiHi it will interesting to see if he has a closer relationship with them like most Chinese companies YiHi will be very protective about the technology and revealing the details we all want to know may just be too far for YiHi.
Watching Phil he doesn't take me as much of a fan of the current TP technology? YiHi implementation may or may not be new (it appears so) and I for one will be most interested in seeing his data.
Even though I have given him a hard time given the current mostly biased, partisan and sponsored by vape gear reviews, in the current vaping landscape he comes across to me at least to be as open and transparent as he can.
Thanks to Vlad1 for the quick scope data I have used those USB scopes and there not great but to give you an idea of what's going on.
With regards to the 'noise' in TP mode I have found it increases in volume from 10-50J no idea what environments people are testing in, as I live on a boat the baseline noise levels are fairly low but vary accordingly. I did not notice the 'noise' until I placed the mod board side (screen) to my ear while firing. The 'noise' is instantaneous on firing.
Not knowing exactly how YiHi have implemented the tech (if we ever will?) opinions expressed are subjective theories and hearsay aside stating they are using PWM is like shooting most vapers in the face!
I am with Phil here with TP I just want it to work, here in Europe there is a little over a year before its all over with regulations and the last few years of innovation and plagurisim will sadly most likely become part of the history of vaping.
Given what I know about YiHi it will interesting to see if he has a closer relationship with them like most Chinese companies YiHi will be very protective about the technology and revealing the details we all want to know may just be too far for YiHi.
Watching Phil he doesn't take me as much of a fan of the current TP technology? YiHi implementation may or may not be new (it appears so) and I for one will be most interested in seeing his data.
Even though I have given him a hard time given the current mostly biased, partisan and sponsored by vape gear reviews, in the current vaping landscape he comes across to me at least to be as open and transparent as he can.
Thanks to Vlad1 for the quick scope data I have used those USB scopes and there not great but to give you an idea of what's going on.
With regards to the 'noise' in TP mode I have found it increases in volume from 10-50J no idea what environments people are testing in, as I live on a boat the baseline noise levels are fairly low but vary accordingly. I did not notice the 'noise' until I placed the mod board side (screen) to my ear while firing. The 'noise' is instantaneous on firing.
Not knowing exactly how YiHi have implemented the tech (if we ever will?) opinions expressed are subjective theories and hearsay aside stating they are using PWM is like shooting most vapers in the face!
I am with Phil here with TP I just want it to work, here in Europe there is a little over a year before its all over with regulations and the last few years of innovation and plagurisim will sadly most likely become part of the history of vaping.
Yep it seem that some want to hear what Pbusardo says about the SX-M class (J board), me included.
Pbusardo does have a large "following" and as a "reviewer" he does a good job of expressing "his opinion". He, like other reviewers, does reviews on anything from cartomizers to drip tips and everything in between. He does add a different flavor with his basic testing (scope results), and etc. I enjoy his reviews, contests, and etc. but don't look to him, or any other reviewer, as the "expert" on anything they review as they offer only their opinion. The "experts" are those that bring the technology and those are the folk I really enjoy visiting with. As always, when I want technical information, I go to the source and not to a reviewer. Sometimes I get answers, sometimes not, as proprietary is proprietary.
This is not a "slap in the face" to any reviewer but only my opinion on what reviewers do. Each of us can watch a review and form opinions based upon the opinion given by that reviewer. Kinda like a review of a new car where the reviewer drives it and shows you all the features and give you test results from his lay test concerning miles per gallon. He loves the car but can't speak to the design aspect of the technology incorporated in it. To get the technology specifics you must go to those that designed it.
Pbusardo does have a large "following" and as a "reviewer" he does a good job of expressing "his opinion". He, like other reviewers, does reviews on anything from cartomizers to drip tips and everything in between. He does add a different flavor with his basic testing (scope results), and etc. I enjoy his reviews, contests, and etc. but don't look to him, or any other reviewer, as the "expert" on anything they review as they offer only their opinion. The "experts" are those that bring the technology and those are the folk I really enjoy visiting with. As always, when I want technical information, I go to the source and not to a reviewer. Sometimes I get answers, sometimes not, as proprietary is proprietary.
This is not a "slap in the face" to any reviewer but only my opinion on what reviewers do. Each of us can watch a review and form opinions based upon the opinion given by that reviewer. Kinda like a review of a new car where the reviewer drives it and shows you all the features and give you test results from his lay test concerning miles per gallon. He loves the car but can't speak to the design aspect of the technology incorporated in it. To get the technology specifics you must go to those that designed it.
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@Retird1
While I understand your point of view and I'm not standing up for anyone or anything. But to the best of my knowledge there is no other reviewer besides Pbusardo that provides anything other than their subjective opinions. To me what you call "basic testing (scope results) I call objective information. While the interpretation of such information can be subjective the data he presents really isn't, from the scope, scales, pressure meter's etc... IMO that objective data he provides is what separates him from all other reviewers, he takes the objective data and combines it with "his subjective opinion" for a complete picture of how it works from a technical aspect as well as from a personal experience with the device. No they're not experts and able to tell us every single bit of logic behind every chip on the board or what line # 1016 in the code is doing, but I don't think there are many that are really interested in knowing that either. You may be one of them that are, and you're right if you want that depth of information the best place to get it would be from the EE's that developed the device and the SE's that wrote the code for it. If there are other reviewer's out there that provide both objective and subjective information please link to them I'd definitely like to subscribe to them. And perhaps we wouldn't all be waiting around on Pbusardo review.
While I understand your point of view and I'm not standing up for anyone or anything. But to the best of my knowledge there is no other reviewer besides Pbusardo that provides anything other than their subjective opinions. To me what you call "basic testing (scope results) I call objective information. While the interpretation of such information can be subjective the data he presents really isn't, from the scope, scales, pressure meter's etc... IMO that objective data he provides is what separates him from all other reviewers, he takes the objective data and combines it with "his subjective opinion" for a complete picture of how it works from a technical aspect as well as from a personal experience with the device. No they're not experts and able to tell us every single bit of logic behind every chip on the board or what line # 1016 in the code is doing, but I don't think there are many that are really interested in knowing that either. You may be one of them that are, and you're right if you want that depth of information the best place to get it would be from the EE's that developed the device and the SE's that wrote the code for it. If there are other reviewer's out there that provide both objective and subjective information please link to them I'd definitely like to subscribe to them. And perhaps we wouldn't all be waiting around on Pbusardo review.
Well I should correct myself - using the term pwm in my post above was incorrect, I didn't realize that until I went to bed last night. I thought one of you fine folk would correct me while I was asleep.
It is pulse fequency modulation, and there is also an amplitude change in those shots just after temp control kicks in. Its clear as day to me how the sx mini is controlling the temp. Compared to the dna40 it is a different approach. The 20ms windows are ample time to get an accurate resistance measurement on the coil while its not being fired, while I suspect the dna40 uses current sensing to calculate temp on the fly. The dna40 controls temp by varying the output voltage, the sx varies the number of pulses per unit of time. Keep in mind, this is all just my opinion.
There's 100 ways to skin a cat. Whatever works, and the method isn't everything, the programming can make or break a project too. It will all come out in the wash.
Yihi came up with an implementation and put it out there. Who are we to question them or their engineering implementations except to decide for ourselves whether we get a good vape or not? If there are pulses in there and vapers don't like it then tough titties.
There was a guy that used to do reviews for eCig Advanced - Matt Olmstead (a.k.a. Fazed - Maker of the Fazed Box Mods) who was pretty good with showing an objective side of reviews. He would get in to the technical aspect, showing scope and metered readings. He was a bit monotonous, but the information he put out was solid.
He just kinda fell off the earth about a year ago.
Too bad, I liked him...
He just kinda fell off the earth about a year ago.
Too bad, I liked him...
@retired1 +1
@vlad1 +0.65
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Lol jazz you make my point. Opinions are subjective and can be argued but measuring devices really cant. Thanks, now point me to those other reviewers
The nice part is it's NOT a copy of what Evolv was doing. It's an entirely different approach. And because they are clearly using some type of timing mechanism to execute TC, perhaps Joules isn't such a whacky method of measuring it after all?
Lol jazz you make my point. Opinions are subjective and can be argued but measuring devices really cant. Thanks, now point me to those other reviewers
Agree.... opinions are subjective and can be argued ( discussed is the word I choose)....dam718 mentioned the only other reviewer I recall. I defer to the name as I could not remember the name and etc...there are posts here in ECF where modders have scoped various chips over the years and discussed them... ya may be able to search for them if you are interested. If you want to discuss the reviewer criteria thing we might go to PM's so the thread will not "hit the weeds as off topic"...Pbusardo's upcoming video will give us some info about the J board. You say your screen captures may not be accurate so you may be interested in his to also compare to yours. It may let ya know just how accurate yours are... Just a thought.
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I think you describe this the most accurately from what I'm seeing in the signal. I did a couple tests at 400 deg. and 475 deg capturing the signal after hitting temp limiting. As you stated the 20mS pulse is constant typically around .5V, There is also a slight increase in amplitude as well as the frequency in which there is a positive main signal when going to the higher setting of 475 deg. These were done at 400 deg. and 475 deg. after temp limiting was engaged.
400 deg. 20j
475 deg. 20j
Slight increase in amplitude as well as frequency of the positive signal and maintaining a 20mS .5V pulse.
Thanks for posting those pics. I see I made another mistake - its not 20mS to measure the coil resistance, its more like a hair over 1mS which is still plenty, those are the small bumps at the bottom between the pulses, looks like its sending a low voltage to check the resistance there. Sorry got it mixed up with the 20mS pulses that keep the coil at a set temp. What sort of usb scope and software are you using Vlad, it looks good to me (for our purposes).
I may be getting confused with what your saying. If I'm understanding you it's taking about 1mS to send the pulse to measure the resistance and that occurs at 20mS?? If that's what your saying that makes sense to me.
As for the scope it's a Hantek 6022be really cheap and has a bit of noise but it's been useful to have around.I may be getting confused with what your saying. If I'm understanding you it's taking about 1mS to send the pulse to measure the resistance and that occurs at 20mS?? If that's what your saying that makes sense to me.
See the two vertical blue lines, the time between them is 20mS. Right after the left blue line, there is a small voltage lasting about 1.2mS, I believe that's where they are measuring the coil resistance. Then after that the main power pulse goes for the rest of the 20mS period. So it measures the coil resistance, then calculates whether to fire or not to keep the temp under or around the set limit. I think thats the same as what you are saying, I hope that clarifies.
Hantek 6022be - I want one
See the two vertical blue lines, the time between them is 20mS. Right after the left blue line, there is a small voltage lasting about 1.2mS, I believe that's where they are measuring the coil resistance. Then after that the main power pulse goes for the rest of the 20mS period. So it measures the coil resistance, then calculates whether to fire or not to keep the temp under or around the set limit. I think thats the same as what you are saying, I hope that clarifies.
Hantek 6022be - I want one
Yea I think were on the same page. And it makes sense to me.
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