You NEED to watch this...

[hifistud]

Monday May 23rd, 9PM BST at vapourtrails.tv | ...... putting u back into vapor ......

 

[Al Capwn]

The difference is these products claim to be medicines, ecigs don't. I realise the MHRA says that they can apply regs to anything that claims to stop you smoking but it's that 'power' of theirs that needs to be attacked in my opinion.

I actually think that patches, gum and inhalers made by big pharma should be taken out of the MHRA regulation net and let them compete on a level playing field with ecigs (where they would get obliterated of course). I simply don't see how the MHRA can justify calling a quit smoking product a 'medicine' as the inference is that smoking itself is a disease.

Why aren't the MHRA regulating Allen Carr books and DVDs?

 

[hifistud]

The difference is these products claim to be medicines, ecigs don't.

Not actually the case - as you will discover on the show...

 

[Al Capwn]

OK let me (or rather Wikipedia) define 'medicine'

"Medicine is the science and art of healing. It encompasses a variety of health care practices evolved to maintain and restore health by the prevention and treatment of illness."

Now I realise that legally the MHRA have a wider definition of medicine than that; I'm talking about ideal worldism here...unless you consider smoking an "illness" then I don't see how anyone can call e-cigs (or patches, gum and inhalers for that matter) a "medicine". Smoking is a personal lifestyle choice, not an illness.

Herbal medicines however do claim do heal or reduce the affects of actual illnesses like headaches or piles or whatever. I'll be watching Mr Stud, just so long as you can get your uStream working this time

 

[hifistud]

Ustream has been sacked in favour of Justin.tv, which gives us a much nicer stream...

 

[classwife]

Hey hifi !


Governments just keep getting crazier and crazier..... I'll be listening !

 

[hifistud]

Cool - look forward to seeing you!!

 

[Al Capwn]

Hey hifi !


Governments just keep getting crazier and crazier..... I'll be listening !

Not really, this is why legislation was brought in....

(Reuters) - A Chinese herbal practitioner admitted on Wednesday selling dangerous pills which destroyed the health of a British woman, leading to calls for the tighter regulation of those selling alternative medicines.

Civil servant Patricia Booth, 58, took tiny brown "Xie Gan Wan" tablets for more than five years to treat a facial skin condition after being reassured that the pills were as safe as Coca-Cola.

The medicine, sold by Ying "Susan" Wu from a shop in Chelmsford, northeast of London, did clear up her skin but had disastrous consequences, the capital's Old Bailey court heard.

Months after she stopped taking the pills in 2003, she fell seriously ill, had to have her kidneys removed, contracted urinary tract cancer and later had a heart attack.

She had to quit her job managing a government office and now needs to go to hospital for dialysis three times a week.

When it was realised the pills were likely to be behind Booth's declining health, officers from the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) visited the Chinese Herbal Medical Centre shop in July 2003 where Wu worked.

Wu, 48, told them she was a qualified doctor in China, but not in Britain. She was cleared of administering a noxious substance, but admitted lesser charges relating to the sale of the pills, the Press Association reported.

Judge Jeremy Roberts, who gave her a two-year conditional discharge, said the sale of traditional Chinese medicines was totally unregulated in Britain and so there was no evidence that Wu knew of tablets' potential harm.

He said he accepted Wu did not know she was breaking the law and the "last thing" she would have wanted would be for any harm to come to Booth.

"Although the MHRA did their best to try and make sure everybody knew about the dangers and about the regulations, it is not a foolproof system and I am certainly not blaming you for the fact you didn't know about these regulations," he said.

"In this country, if you are operating a business like Miss Wu's of supplying traditional Chinese medicine, there is no system in place whatever to make you aware of these regulations."

The Register of Chinese Herbal Medicine, which represents more than 450 practitioners, said the case highlighted the need for statutory regulation.

"This would ensure that anyone who practises Chinese herbal medicine is suitably qualified and competent," said Emma Farrant, secretary of the RCHM.

"It is unacceptable for the current situation to continue, whereby anyone can claim to be a Chinese medicine practitioner and put the public at risk."

The Department of Health said it received more than 5,000 responses after launching a consultation last year on whether practitioners of alternative medicine should be regulated.

"We are working through these to see what the way forward should be," a spokesman said. "Our response will be published as soon as possible."

And that is why these medicines (or as I prefer to call them 'snake oils') need to be regulated in some manner, as do ecigs. The only question is how they should be regulated.

In my opinion herbal medicines should not be exempt from the same testing, licensing and health standards of regular medicine. This idea that someone should be able to set up a shop, wear a white and call themselves a doctor whilst making often unprovable claims about some plant extract curing all manner of ills is an unsustainable one. These new regulations don't stop herbalists selling their herbs (Tesco aren't having to pay £750k to sell Oregano are they?), it just makes them prove they are safe if they want to claim health benefits (something the ecig world has been carfeul not to do).

Manufacturers of eliquids need to be careful and make sure they self regulate their products to ensure not a single person dies or becomes ill using them. All it takes is one unscrupulous character to put out thousands of bottles of eliquid with something dangerous in for the MHRA to claim all brands should be removed from the market.

However, I do support some regulation of ecigs, just so long as it is sensible, realistic and affordable. I know some people want no regulation at all and I believe want to put their fingers in their ears about any negatives that ecigs may contain. I'm not, I want to know what I'm doing is safe and if it can be shown that a certain ingredient in our liquids is dangerous (and was found through scientific means and not highlighted fro commercial reasons like the FDA's test results) then I want it removed from the liquid as soon as possible. It is not helpful IMO to say "we know they are safe and don;t want them tested in any way".

Finally, I don't believe that the regulations brought in for herbal medicines should effect ecigs at all as both sectors are quite different IMO. Ecigs don't make healing claims and vendors in the UK are being very good at not claiming they are a quit smoking device. Ecigs aren't being sold in shops deliberately mocked up to look like pharmacies by people who call themselves doctors and finally herbal medicine covers an almost limitless amount of ingredients whereas most eliquids are all the same with exception of the flavourings.

 

[perpetua]

I think you missed some of the point we were trying to make in the parallel between the licensing of herbal medicines & ecigs Al, perhaps we didn't convey that as well as we might have.

Whilst I don't dispute the need for the testing of anything to ensure it's safety for public consumption - it's the costs involved in actually obtaining a license that if it happened to eliquid say, would make it prohibitive for all but the very largest and wealthiest companies to afford.

And not all UK Vendors are as good as they might be with the quit smoking claims . . . .