Delay the FDA, Citizen Petition on Regulations.gov, what's the deal?

[Stubby]

He was talking about CASAA response. Part of their argument was that we didn't include all forms of THR. Fighting for all of the THR products was not the goal for us in that petition and it was stated as much in the drafting thread.

As for your badly written comment, we did ask for input from ALL ECF members as well as CASAA and only a handful stepped up to help. You weren't one of them. In fact iirc you refused to help at all and condemned us from the beginning.

Now where you get this idea that there is a difference in the petitions is beyond me. All petitions are citizens petitions. This one is only different in the process that is being used to submit it and nothing more.

It's almost as if your saying because the government isn't telling you it's valid then it can't be valid. I think I know you well enough to know you don't believe that but that's how you come across.

It would be easy to respond to all of your points, but why bother. It is all just petty bickering. Just one point though, it is the government we are dealing with, and government procedure. Ignore that and you lose.

Besides that It does show just how bad things have gotten on ECF when it comes to advocacy.

 

[puffon]

Besides that It does show just how bad things have gotten on ECF when it comes to advocacy.

What forum have you found, that does the most regarding advocacy?

 

[Stubby]

What forum have you found, that does the most regarding advocacy?

I would suggest the CASAA Facebook page

 

[Ca Ike]

It would be easy to respond to all of your points, but why bother. It is all just petty bickering. Just one point though, it is the government we are dealing with, and government procedure. Ignore that and you lose.

Besides that It does show just how bad things have gotten on ECF when it comes to advocacy.

That's partly my point too, but it's not just ECF. It's everywhere and just about every topic. People talk a lot, complain a lot but very few actually act.

You still don't seem to get the rest though. Submitting a petition using ANY method, whether it be through the FDA channels or a stack of signed binder paper handed directly to a rep. IS a government procedure laid out by the constitution. One method is no less valid than the other under the law.

 

[Stubby]

That's partly my point too, but it's not just ECF. It's everywhere and just about every topic. People talk a lot, complain a lot but very few actually act.

You still don't seem to get the rest though. Submitting a petition using ANY method, whether it be through the FDA channels or a stack of signed binder paper handed directly to a rep. IS a government procedure laid out by the constitution. One method is no less valid than the other under the law.

There is a big difference between a petition handed to a representative, and essentially a legal document presented to the FDA.

By law the FDA has to respond to the citizens petition. That means they are on record as to there response. I would expect (if the FDA stands as it does now) that it would be rejected, but that would be an official document which can be used in a future court case (and I would expect someone would use it in a court case).

As I stated earlier, this is a legal maneuver and it cannot be ignored by the FDA. The petition you are pushing has no legal weight. Perhaps if it had several million signatures some politicians might take a closer look, as is it is pretty much useless and will simply be ignored. It is a waste of time and energy.

 

[Bad Ninja]

There is a big difference between a petition handed to a representative, and essentially a legal document presented to the FDA.

By law the FDA has to respond to the citizens petition. That means they are on record as to there response. I would expect (if the FDA stands as it does now) that it would be rejected, but that would be an official document which can be used in a future court case (and I would expect someone would use it in a court case).

As I stated earlier, this is a legal maneuver and it cannot be ignored by the FDA. The petition you are pushing has no legal weight. Perhaps if it had several million signatures some politicians might take a closer look, as is it is pretty much useless and will simply be ignored. It is a waste of time and energy.

A response isnt action.

Anyone suggesting that a petition can force the FDA to chage a regulation is disingenuous.

Hoping to "catch" them in an official response and using it against them in an imaginary courtroom in a case that doesn't yet exist is just playing games.

If half this much energy was put into organizing local voters and educating them on who stands for and against vapers rights, we would have won this thing by now.

 

[Stubby]

A response isnt action.

Anyone suggesting that a petition can force the FDA to chage a regulation is disingenuous.

Hoping to "catch" them in an official response and using it against them in an imaginary courtroom in a case that doesn't yet exist is just playing games.

If half this much energy was put into organizing local voters and educating them on who stands for and against vapers rights, we would have won this thing by now.

Claiming that organizing local voters would have won this is a nice fantasy, but there isn't much substance to it. The vaping community simply does not have the political clout to pull it off. It is better then in the past, but it is a long way from being a reality.

As for the rest of it, no one has suggested that a petition can force the FDA to chage a regulation. Please point out where that was ever stated by anyone.

 

[CMD-Ky]

Claiming that organizing local voters would have won this is a nice fantasy, but there isn't much substance to it. The vaping community simply does not have the political clout to pull it off. It is better then in the past, but it is a long way from being a reality.

As for the rest of it, no one has suggested that a petition can force the FDA to chage a regulation. Please point out where that was ever stated by anyone.

There are times when the number of wheels is not as important as the volume at which and the consistency with which those wheels squeak.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Claiming that organizing local voters would have won this is a nice fantasy, but there isn't much substance to it. The vaping community simply does not have the political clout to pull it off. It is better then in the past, but it is a long way from being a reality.

As for the rest of it, no one has suggested that a petition can force the FDA to chage a regulation. Please point out where that was ever stated by anyone.

Petitions gather personal information.
Name, address, phone, email....
That's asking alot. I do not believe that information is kept secure when you sign any petition especially online.

Organized voting on a local level is the ONLY way we can stop enforcement of regulations.

Organized voting is the ONLY thing that can change FDA regulations.

When ya send a message, the object is to actually be heard.