Message from Bill Godshall of Smokefree Pennsylvania

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LaceyUnderall

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Dec 4, 2008
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Be careful with the "moral high ground" stance because the Anti-Nicotine brigade have claimed that avenue, I think they even trademarked it via the Truth Campaign. Who would have ever thought the word "truth" could be trademarked?

A minority group of drug users will have to go a long way to win the moral high ground.

Ethics of freedom to take risks might be a better way to look at it.

Don't pretend there are no risks, be honest and you'll not seem so deluded about taking them.

Points noted. :)
 
My biggest problem with quitting is the drugs and patches my doc reccomended, the whole ball of wax, every one of them we looked at one side effect: seizures.
Been there done that for 19 years, don't want any 'side effects' top bring on my epilepsy again. Cost me over 250K to get rid of them the first time.
Not to mention the risks of the surgery!
Started using my first e-cig yesterday.
Rick
 

ladyraj

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Apr 30, 2009
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My biggest problem with quitting is the drugs and patches my doc reccomended, the whole ball of wax, every one of them we looked at one side effect: seizures.
Been there done that for 19 years, don't want any 'side effects' top bring on my epilepsy again. Cost me over 250K to get rid of them the first time.
Not to mention the risks of the surgery!
Started using my first e-cig yesterday.
Rick

Why in the world would you use this product if you do not know that seizures are a side effect? Particularly, after all you have been thru? You wisely checked out other alternatives for side effects but did not wait for the research on the e-cig. If you have had surgery for epilepsy then you know the ramifications of triggers, this one is unknown. In my humble opinion, I suggest you put the e-cig down until the research is complete, please.
 

DisMan

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Sep 2, 2008
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Why in the world would you use this product if you do not know that seizures are a side effect? Particularly, after all you have been thru? You wisely checked out other alternatives for side effects but did not wait for the research on the e-cig. If you have had surgery for epilepsy then you know the ramifications of triggers, this one is unknown. In my humble opinion, I suggest you put the e-cig down until the research is complete, please.

I'm still waiting on the verdict of Microsoft's system security research. There's been some published findings in both directions. I'm waiting for an absolute....so, I can't use my computer until I know what I'm vulnerable to.

Please let me know when the research is complete so I can finally use a computer to type this message.

Screw it...I'll just take the risk.
 

ladyraj

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I'm still waiting on the verdict of Microsoft's system security research. There's been some published findings in both directions. I'm waiting for an absolute....so, I can't use my computer until I know what I'm vulnerable to.

Please let me know when the research is complete so I can finally use a computer to type this message.

Screw it...I'll just take the risk.

Wow, what a comparison! I'm amazed that you equate someone's documented health problems with software. He was treated for epilepsy and should be warned away. If you disagree with my stance justify it on medical grounds. Your argument is unfortunate.

Remember the powers that be may be watching these threads and giving medical scenarios...we must answer responsibly. One seizure is too many with our e-cigs.
 
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Bones

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E-liquid is an unapproved mix of ingredients that constitutes a new drug to the FDA, which has unquestioned and long-standing authority to say "prove it" before a new drug can be put on the market. That demand for scientific proof safeguards everyone from unscrupulous snake oil salesmen.

With drugs, you don't "surmise" anything in seeking approval to sell. Drugs require scientific proof of safety and efficacy. Your experience means nothing to anyone but you.

That's the reality, like it or not. It's the same in most civilized nations. E-cigs are being banned in every country where they are being scrutinized. Why? Because proper, long-standing rules weren't met.

Bob-
You make some valid points I will grant you but - Consider how many drugs we have seen being advertised with FDA approval and a long long list of negative side effects (in some cases death) - Many of them have follow up adverts in a year or so that say something like "DID YOUR LOVED ONE DIE FROM TAKING THE NEW DRUG WE SOLD YOU LAST YEAR? THEN SUE!" -

Seems that there are two different arguments at play here -
1 - What will likely happen in reality?
2 - If that reality is just or fair?

By the rules at play - you are correct - there should have been efforts to prove saftey before going global with the sale of the substance - However - It is the random ignorance with wich the rules are applied that is upsetting. The big pharmacutical companies go through all the right proceedures, pay all the proper fees and buy all the right politicians and produce FDA approved killers all the time. Exotic compounds that truly have no extensive real world trials - If the Letter of the law is upheld - Then let the Spirit of the law be damed -

The ingredients in the e-juice are VERY WELL KNOWN and do not change into some magically toxic brew when inhaled - That's the ideology -

Reality?

What I forsee happening is a regulation on the e-juice containing nicotine - The devices will be sold with nicotine free flavor mixes - Just as Vaporizers and "water pipes" for illicit smoke are sold today along with little bags of dried out 10 year old tobacco that no one thinks is ever actually going to be smoked in the "water pipe" - Then you will just get your e-juice on the black market - I can make you 5 gallons in a week - It ain't rocket science - :)

The FDA would have NO CONTROL if the nicotine was taken out of the juice. - Remember they are not talking about outlawing nicotine - which can still be found - Or tobacco - Which can very easily be used to extract the nicotine - It is the combination of the nicotine and the PV - the new drug delivery system - If they do actually ban the devices - go buy one of the legal vaporizers and put tobacco in it - The "water pipe" guys have devices that vaporize dry plant matter and elimnate combustion and they work real good too :) - been around a lot longer than e-cigs - all the bugs worked out.

The big e-cig industry error was not taking a clue from the "water pipe" guys. The nicotine and the device should never have been boxed together - That's what makes it a "drug delivery device" and whoever started making them look like a real cigarette and encouraging users to flaunt them in the face of smoking bans - That was just stupid - The flags really went red then -

Of course the final step will be to have nicotine juice become legal - Manufactured buy Phizer - Available only with prescription and costs $250.00 for a 10ml bottle -

Peace ~
Bones

Been free of tobacco for 2 weeks - I LOVE MY KISSBOX - If they wanna take it it'll be . . . . . FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!
 

Bill Godshall

Executive Director<br/> Smokefree Pennsylvania
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Apr 2, 2009
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Just to clarify, neither of the two amendments (to the FDA tobacco legislation) that impacted e-cigarettes were approved by the US Senate.

Tom Coburn withdrew his amendment (that would have specifically excluded e-cigarettes from the definition of a tobacco product), while the Burr/Hagan substitute
amendment (that would have defined e-cigarettes as a new category of tobacco product) was defeated by Senate Democrats (primarily because it didn't give FDA any authority to regulate tobacco products).
 

yvilla

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But Bill, I don't think it's so crystal clear that the under the new legislation the FDA couldn't deem ecigs to be "tobacco products" within the scope of the bill, as the nicotine liquid is in fact "derived" from tobacco. This has been acknowledged for example by DeKang, probably the largest eliquid manufactutor of all. And, the FDA would be especially motivated to do that if by chance the Judge in the SE/Njoy litigation agrees that ecigs are not "new drugs" needing to go through the NDA process.

I'm wondering it you would amplify your thoughts on this a bit more.
 

Bill Godshall

Executive Director<br/> Smokefree Pennsylvania
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I strongly doubt that a federal court would issue a ruling stating that the FDA cannot regulate e-cigarettes as drugs, drug-devices or combination products. And if that happened, I think the ruling would be quickly overturned on appeal.

I'd be pleasantly shocked if the FDA changed their position and began asserting that e-cigarettes are tobacco products, as that way the FDA couldn't ban the products from the market, and the FDA would have to rescind their import warning on e-cigarettes.
 

redjazzy1

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Jun 14, 2009
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So I think I'm posting this in the right place... I had a "campaigning" idea. I just did a Google search and a search at Meet Up.com and there are NO groups that get together in their cities and vape. I'm going to start an Orlando, Florida Meetup.com group. We can meet up once a month and maybe spread the good word... pass it on to your FL vaping forum friends!
 
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