New By Super-T: The Tanbur SS Contoured T-Tips!

Status
Not open for further replies.

revolver

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 9, 2010
873
311
Buenos Aires
I know this is off topic but I ended up confused...

So, the kick will deliver the set watts if your atty is between 1,3 and 3,0 ohm !? Is that so?

Because maybe it's me but I do feel my kicked P+ does work differently with a fresh new batt (4,2ish) versus a not so fresh-off-the-charger-full bat (3,7 volts !?) and then versus a 'low batt'... Maybe it's just me...

But let me ask this one more time: Is it that way? Say I set my kick with a LR (or SR should be the same to practical effects, right?) at 10 W and it should be 10 watts through out the battery life, right?

Because even though it does feel consistent throughout, then again, I do feel there might (not sure, maybe it's something subjective...) be three different frames of power as above mentioned... And Snork comment had me thinking that could be it, but it seems it is not that way, right Nebula !???

:blink:
 

NebulaBrot

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 6, 2010
1,272
1,014
in the NEBULA
Revolver, it sort of depends on what you are using. There can be some variance but not much. I do not think Kick can reduce voltage (but I have seen some lower readings) and batts do come off chargers over charged. If the combo you are using starts off at over 10 watts, you may get over 10 watts to start. Using an under-load meter will tell you the under-load voltages you are getting. But, ultimately, while we (those vaping for a while) have been conditioned to think in volts, that is really an irrelevant number because the resistance you put on those volts yields watts. It can get further complicated by amps but using kick we are (hopefully - if we are all following Evolv's instructions) only using IMR batts which have the amps necessary to drive pretty much any combo.

So, lets just drop the amps as we assume we ARE following Evolv's instructions and only using IMR batts. We can use an on-line ohms law calculator to crunch some hypothetical numbers to lay out an outline and hopefully this will help show the picture better.

Keep in mind that standard and higher resistance coils will give us a greater access to the range of vapable watts. We will see this as we look at the numbers. Also, keep in mind, these are the Ohms Law numbers. Kicks are the first and only drop-in modules and the various devices people use all have their own variances in conductive efficiency (will result in variations). These variances are inherent in the various devices and that is something Evolv cannot control. Any chain is only as strong as its weakest link. In vaping, there are many links in the chain - change any one of them and the vape experience can change too - obviously, some variables yield more noticeable changes than others. Many people posting they are using out of spec - as compared to instructions posted on the Evolv site - and then wondering why they seem to have issues. So, lets look at the numbers in theory:

In order to keep this in perspective, we need to look a bit at what the Kick does. The kick is constantly (many, many, many times each second of button activation) monitoring the full cylce of power and constantly making adjustments to voltage and amps to maintain the most consistent WATTS level it can. The kick will boost voltages as needed and has the upper limitation of 10 watts (some can go a bit over) but there is no way around Ohms Law. I am not 100% certain but I think Kick may have an upper end voltage limit of around 5.5 volts.

Using 1.3Ωs on a fresh off the charger batt (and this can vary too as there are many variables in how well a battery can hold its charge - charger, age of cell, number of recharge cycles, if left on a non-smart charger excessively, if batts left in a hot car, if batts have been repeatedly over-drained, etc.):

10 watts using 1.3Ωs would use 3.6 volts. However, if the batt is pushing 4.2, I do not think Kick can reduce that so for the first few hits you may get hotter vape. Assuming 4.2 volts on 1.3Ωs = 13 watts. Just remember that the batt cannot sustain that 4.2 for long. It will drop down to 3.7 quickly. At 3.7 volts, the 1.3Ωs will yield 10.5 watts. As the voltage (under-load) drops below 3.6 volts the kick will boost to maintain the 10 watts. The kick's low batt cut-off is set at 3.2 volts under load (equates to somewhere between 3.4 and 3.6 unloaded - for safety reasons and this may be a bit overly conservative but it also forces better battery maintenance in recharge cycles).

10 watts using 1.5Ωs would be 3.87 volts. Again, if a fresh batt is actually pushing 4.2 = 11.6 watts but not for long as it will drop quickly down to the operational level of 3.7. When the batt starts pushing below the 3.87 volts (under-load) needed to maintain the 10 watts set on Kick, kick will boost to that level.

10 watts using 2.0 Ωs would need 4.47 volts and kick would be boosting from first button activation and continue to maintain that level until cut-off.

10 watts using 2.5Ωs would need 5 volts and kick would be boosting from first activation to last to maintain.

10 watts using 3.0Ωs would need 5.47 volts and kick would be boosting from first activation to last to maintain.

If you want to vape BELOW 10 watts, obviously the standard and higher resistances become necessary.

So, for those who like LR and 10 watts levels - the kick will maintain better than unregulated which may start out warmer but will drop as the under-load voltage drops thru the useable charge cycle. Also, in unregulated, the resistance of the coil will probably drop over the life of the coil and only Regulated Power can compensate for that (with some limitations - if the resistance gets too low).

For those who like above 10 watts, the DNA board goes to 12 watts. That is a pretty toasty vape on a single coil but some like it. As DNA uses the same Power REgulated technology - again, this will maintain the most consistent vape temps at the set watts levels.

I use 2.8Ωs and I vape at around 8.5-9 watts. Using my set-up: 2.8Ωs for 8.5 watts needs 4.8 volts and kick boosts from first activation to last. If I wanted 10 watts on my 2.8Ωs needs 5.2 volts and kick is boosting start to finish. If I want 7 watts on my 2.8Ωs this needs 4.4 volts and kick is still boosting.

These numbers must be looked at in theory as the variances in device and gear setups has way too many variables for any two people to make realistic comparisons. Even with the same device and same atty, batteries can vary to some degree, chargers, battery maintenance, etc. Even how each person vapes (vaping style) can impact the coil. I continue to read posts from people trying to compare battery "hours" and sometimes even across set-ups. This is not a realistic comparison because of the many variables - especially in hours as each person will have different aggregate "button time" - someone who activates the button for an aggregate average of 2 minutes per hour will get more "hours" than someone who presses for an aggregate average of 4 minutes per hour.

Bottom line, there are just too many variables to make accurate comparisons. There are also too many variables to even conclusively say "you will get this or that" and be exactly accurate. Batteries, conductive efficiency between devices and set-ups (remember, these attys and cartos are made cheaply and in bulk and any atty or carto can vary as much as +/- 0.3Ω from rated as simply a matter of manufacturing inconsistencies).

Boosted digital variable voltage will give you the second most consistent vape experience but it still cannot compensate for changes in the coil. For the vape gear to date, Regulated Power will provide the most consistent vape obtainable. You may get "some" fluctuations but the vape experience will overall be more consistent than anything else.

Hope this helps. Happy 4th to all.
 

snork

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 30, 2011
6,181
11,234
CO
I'm two feet away from a tanbur.

GUS46.jpg


If ever you're in Phoenix, you MUST go to the Musical Instruments Museum. It's one of the most amazing things I've ever seen.
 

snork

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 30, 2011
6,181
11,234
CO
Just as a follow up to my previous off-topic post, that day I spent ten straight hours in that museum. I could have probably spent another ten, easily. They have every kind of instrument from every corner of the world going back to the beginning of time, and many of them are accompanied by video/audio of their use and sound. They also have contemporary things like the piano John Lennon composed "Imagine" on. Unreal.
www.themim.org
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread