2nd Hand Vapor?????

[koolgooseygramma]

I tried searching this topic and I couldn't find what I was looking for....

Does anyone know the health risks of 2nd hand vapor? Is it like 2nd hand smoke? Should I only use my E-cigarettes outdoors so I don't risk other peoples health? Are there any studies on this?

 

[NancyR]

I have heard here on the forums (tho not read the post myself) that one of the guys had his bird tested to make sure vaping in his house wasn't a problem and that everything came back normal.

 

[SpookyMulder]

Great question and one I have been wondering myself.

 

[hrlw817]

Vapor clouds aren't dangerous. Much less, and I mean MUCH less than second hand smoke from a cig. Besides, vapor disappears pretty quick and usually not enough to linger around for someone else to breathe in.

 

[Yves]

I posted this study a little while ago on Passive vaping.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...473-interesting-new-study-passive-vaping.html

 

[18SixFifty]

There is zero evidence from any study that vaping is bad for your health. So I am quite sure that there is zero evidence that second hand vaping could possibly do a thing to anyone around you. In fact there were a few studies done regarding nicotine that was exhaled and it was right around zero, but then again they couldn't even prove that you had even inhaled any nicotine and that the entire process isn't simply one large placebo effect.

If you don't feel comfortable with the off chance that it may possibly in the most unlikely way have an effect then please don't vape around people. I wish that I could assure you that there is NO possible way that it could have some mild effect but it's next to impossible to disprove a negative. I could claim that eating pickles while pregnant causes birth defects. How do you prove I am wrong?

I know I have seen this. A random stanger thinks I'm actually smoking a cigarette and claims that they are having an asthma attack. When in fact I know that they never even came close enough to smell the vapor let alone be effected by it physically. Again the placebo effect could be real. Most of the time I think it's just a snotty busy body being a PITA.

 

[ShogaNinja]

The TL;DR version is that the jury's still out but it's probably fine. I don't like to compare it by saying it's "much better than smoking" because that much goes without saying.

Here's what I wrote about it in my blog, The Vaper's Handbook:

Q16: Is vaping okay to do in public?
A16: The common consensus is that the only thing you release is water vapor (steam) when you exhale. Because no one knows the absorption rate of nicotine (they believe it's between 10-40%) the rest of it has to go somewhere. Some believe it is burnt up by the atomization process. I can't tell you. I wouldn't vape around children though for two reasons: what if they're wrong about the safety of the second hand vapor, and secondly, it's not even slightly cool to influence children into one day getting a bad habit like you. I do NOT recommend you vape around known asthmatics. The smell alone can trigger an attack. Yes, I do realize that their inhalers use propylene glycol, it's just the smell will get them sooner or later. So is it ok to do in public? It's up to you. If you need to stealth vape I like to go into the bathroom and vape it up in a stall. The way I figure it, it can only improve the smell. I frequently stealth vape while watching movies in the theater as well. All you do is get a couple of napkins or a wad of toilet paper and breathe your vaper out through that. It absorbs the vapor and no one is bothered. Just watch your battery button's light. You don't want to give away your position. No good ninja ever does that. In all other cases, such as bars or restaurants, ask someone who works there if it's ok. What about the mall? They usually have vaping kiosks there and if yours does too I say what's good for the goose is good for the gander, just watch out for Paul Blart: Mall Cop. Keep it out of stores though. I have vaped in a few stores anyway lol, in secret. If you're at work ask your boss. If he/she says NO, and you can't find a foolproof hidey spot, just do the bathroom trick and use toilet paper to blow it out. Always ask any friends or relatives if it's okay to vape in their house or car. Tell them it's water vapor but it will release an odor (unless you vape flavorless).

 

[NancyR]

I do NOT recommend you vape around known asthmatics. The smell alone can trigger an attack. Yes, I do realize that their inhalers use propylene glycol, it's just the smell will get them sooner or later.

I know I am not the only asthmatic who use to smoke and now vapes. My sister also has asthma, as well as COPD and allergies to perfumes, and I am around her while vaping all the time. Tho for the record she also smokes, as do most of the other asthmatics I am around on a reg bases. My vaping has never given a single one of us an issue.

 

[ShogaNinja]

There is zero evidence from any study that vaping is bad for your health. So I am quite sure that there is zero evidence that second hand vaping could possibly do a thing to anyone around you. In fact there were a few studies done regarding nicotine that was exhaled and it was right around zero, but then again they couldn't even prove that you had even inhaled any nicotine and that the entire process isn't simply one large placebo effect.

If you don't feel comfortable with the off chance that it may possibly in the most unlikely way have an effect then please don't vape around people. I wish that I could assure you that there is NO possible way that it could have some mild effect but it's next to impossible to disprove a negative. I could claim that eating pickles while pregnant causes birth defects. How do you prove I am wrong?

I know I have seen this. A random stanger thinks I'm actually smoking a cigarette and claims that they are having an asthma attack. When in fact I know that they never even came close enough to smell the vapor let alone be effected by it physically. Again the placebo effect could be real. Most of the time I think it's just a snotty busy body being a PITA.

I wouldn't say that at all. Try not to use blanket 100% for sure statements. Nicotine is known to spread cancer once you already have it. Look it up. Plus there's acrolein generated by PG and VG, and even though the amounts are well under the safe oral intake per day, it's there and it's a biocide. The jury's still out on vaping. All we know 100% for sure is that it's better than smoking for you and for anyone you used to smoke around.

Wikipedia says:
"Nicotine has been noted to directly cause cancer through a number of different mechanisms such as the activation of MAP Kinases.[73] Indirectly, nicotine increases cholinergic signalling (and adrenergic signalling in the case of colon cancer[74]), thereby impeding apoptosis (programmed cell death), promoting tumor growth, and activating growth factors and cellular mitogenic factors such as 5-LOX, and EGF. Nicotine also promotes cancer growth by stimulating angiogenesis and neovascularization.[75][76] In one study, nicotine administered to mice with tumors caused increases in tumor size (twofold increase), metastasis (nine-fold increase), and tumor recurrence (threefold increase)."

It also has a nice section on how it can cause a 60% increase in chances of birth defects in pregnant women in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy.

And before anyone starts knocking Wikipedia, doctors write in it too. Considering 99% of us don't understand every word of that paragraph, it's clear that a 12 year old did not write that.

Suffice it to say that a non-smoker, non-vaper is the healthiest you can be.

 

[ShogaNinja]

I know I am not the only asthmatic who use to smoke and now vapes. My sister also has asthma, as well as COPD and allergies to perfumes, and I am around her while vaping all the time. Tho for the record she also smokes, as do most of the other asthmatics I am around on a reg bases. My vaping has never given a single one of us an issue.

Smells are triggers for asthmatics. Perhaps you are a low level asthmatic? You can tell if you've been to the emergency room multiple times to get nebulized. It's bad form to put people you know or love in the hospital. Trust me, I was there for 5 hours last time when I nearly killed the love of my life. I am NOT allowed to vape outside the man cave.

 

[B Hick]

I saw a study they've done that shows being in a room filled with vapor from an ecig is less harmful than standing on a busy street corner. Also all the nicotine is absorbed by the lungs and none is exhaled.

 

[JENerationX]

Smells are triggers for asthmatics. Perhaps you are a low level asthmatic? You can tell if you've been to the emergency room multiple times to get nebulized. It's bad form to put people you know or love in the hospital. Trust me, I was there for 5 hours last time when I nearly killed the love of my life. I am NOT allowed to vape outside the man cave.

I'm asthmatic. I have a nebulizer at home, 2 prescribed daily inhalers, and a rescue inhaler. Since vaping, I found exactly 1 juice out of the 50 or so that I've tried that I had any negative reaction to (a strong cinnamon). Vaping exclusively for about 2 months now, I'm no longer using the daily inhalers or nebulizer... and I've only used my rescue inhaler twice due to strep and a cold. My respiratory therapist recommends vaping to smoking patients.

 

[Kweb]

Vocalek posted a really nice article on the news and media forum on this- I think her statistic said that you need to mouth-to-mouth inhale 300 exhales of vapor to get 2.4 of nic secondhand. There were stats on other chemicals, too. It leads me to believe that it is all in the non-vaper's heads. When anyone sees "smoke" these days, they think it is icky and therefore making them sick.

 

[YKruss]

Vocalek posted a really nice article on the news and media forum on this...

Here is Vocalek's article - Latest Studies Confirm E-Cigarette Vapor Safety

 

[recidivus]

I'm unsure of the health risks with 2nd hand, but as far as vaping around people indoors (even in my own home) I always ask to see if company/others have a problem with it. It's just a matter of being courteous.

If someone does have a problem, I step outside. I HAD to do it as a smoker, so it's no big deal.

 

[kiwivap]

I wouldn't say that at all. Try not to use blanket 100% for sure statements. Nicotine is known to spread cancer once you already have it.

Actually, not yet known to do so in humans who have cancer. From Wikipedia: research over the last decade has identified nicotine's carcinogenic potential in animal models and cell culture.

I'd agree that's cause for concern if some-one already had cancer - but I also note it is talking about animal models and cell culture, and the effects of nicotine on already existing tumour cells.

Wikipedia says:
"Nicotine has been noted to directly cause cancer through a number of different mechanisms such as the activation of MAP Kinases.[73] Indirectly, nicotine increases cholinergic signalling (and adrenergic signalling in the case of colon cancer[74]), thereby impeding apoptosis (programmed cell death), promoting tumor growth, and activating growth factors and cellular mitogenic factors such as 5-LOX, and EGF. Nicotine also promotes cancer growth by stimulating angiogenesis and neovascularization.[75][76] In one study, nicotine administered to mice with tumors caused increases in tumor size (twofold increase), metastasis (nine-fold increase), and tumor recurrence (threefold increase)."

That is talking about existing cancer - in a cell dish or a mouse, and one thing we have to keep in mind is that the cellular environment is different - tumors release certain things that aren't normally released. So nicotine effects are seen in concert with an abnormal environment in these studies. Angiogensis is a process whereby an already existing tumor is creating a blood supply (in simple terms). The lab finding in that wiki quote are about existing tumours. I'm trying to put it simply here.

The take home message is - don't consume nicotine if you have cancer.

Wikipedia also says this:
Historically, nicotine has not been regarded as a carcinogen and the IARC has not evaluated nicotine in its standalone form and assigned it to an official carcinogen group.
There is no epidemiological evidence that nicotine causes cancer.

And before anyone starts knocking Wikipedia, doctors write in it too. Considering 99% of us don't understand every word of that paragraph, it's clear that a 12 year old did not write that.

It's not completely without merit - but it's not a peer reviewed literature review either. And I don't mean that as necessarily a negative - but simply that it can't in one small section of an entry represent where the literature is now, or what is most relevant or cited right now. It's interesting though.

As far as second hand vaping goes, it makes no point, unless you are vaping next to some-one diagnosed with cancer maybe. But even then, the amount of nicotine would be the least worry - the tumors themselves would be doing the real damage. But it's good to be considerate anyway. Any lab reports I've seen to do with vaping don't have data showing worrying amounts of nicotine in exhaled vapor.

 

[kiwivap]

There is zero evidence from any study that vaping is bad for your health.

That's true. I don't know of any study that has provided data showing vaping damages human health. Good point.

 

[KTaylor]

In case I missed it here is another study. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278691512005030