If Women Continue To Use Nicotine During Pregnancy

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If women continue to use nicotine during pregnancy, here's some interesting things to consider:

I checked into a possible relationship between nicotine and caffeine, because along with no longer wanting to light up a tobacco cigarette in the morning, I always do consume 1 or 2 cups of coffee in the morning. But I've noticed that I've lost the desire to drink coffee during the day. I speak of the past, when I was drinking coffee around the clock as a habit.

Here's what the web says :

The prevalence of tobacco smoking and coffee drinking place nicotine and caffeine among the most used licit drugs in many societies and their consumption is often characterised by concurrent use. The pharmacological basis for any putative interaction between these drugs remains unclear. Epidemiological reports support anecdotal evidence, which suggests that smokers consume caffeine to enhance the euphoric effects of nicotine. The aim of the present experiment was to examine effects of chronic exposure to caffeine on responding maintained by nicotine. Sprague-Dawley rats consuming caffeine (approximately 150-180 mg/kg per day) in their drinking water for 7 days prior to the beginning and throughout behavioural testing acquired intravenous nicotine self-administration (0.03 mg/kg per infusion) more rapidly than did controls. In a cross-over design, exclusion of caffeine brought levels of nicotine self-administration back to baseline, while adding caffeine to the drinking water of control rats increased responding maintained by nicotine over 90%. These findings strongly suggest that caffeine can potentiate the reinforcing properties of nicotine, thus highlighting the importance of environmental factors in shaping and maintaining tobacco smoking.
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/cafnic.htm

All I can speak of is the here and now. Without smoking tobacco cigarettes, I don't spend my days coughing, and feeling congested. I have more energy. That's why I drank coffee so heavily, during the day. To feel awake, to have energy, it was all about energy to keep up with a busy schedule... I lived on a nicotine/caffeine diet, around the clock for years.
For the past week, I feel safe to say I'd rather drink a soft drink (diet soda), than coffee. I don't want coffee during the day time, and late at night anymore. I don't crave it, I don't desire to drink it.
Just one of those things that creep up on you, you stop doing and you don't even think about it, until you've done it for several days, or weeks. I feel energetic, better breathing... I feel awake during the day, so why drink coffee?

Here's another piece of interesting information that turned up while trying to pinpoint the correlation between tobacco cigarette smoke, and heavy coffee consumption:
Nicotine 166 Times More Deadly than Caffeine?
Any assertion that nicotine is as harmless as caffeine must divorce itself from the deadly reality that nicotine is not a bean stimulant but a potent natural insecticide engineered by nature to protect the tobacco plant from being eaten by insects. While it takes 50 to 60 mg of nicotine to kill a 160 pound human, it would take 10,000 mg of caffeine to do so.
Contrary to Shiffman's assertion that nicotine is not a "big player" in the harms caused by cigarettes, a mushrooming body of toxicology science suggests otherwise, especially for the developing fetus. On December 29, 2005, two UK NRT industry consultants, Martin Raw and Robert West, helped author government guidance recommendations allowing UK NRT use for up to 9 months by pregnant smokers.
The report asserts, "The pharmacology of nicotine suggests that it may contribute to some of the damage to the fetus caused by smoking. However, this contribution is likely to be small and there is no doubt at all that NRT use is much safer than smoking."
Not so, asserts Professor Theodore Slotkin with the Department of Pharmacology and Cancer Biology at Duke University Medical Center. "There is abundant evidence that the major problem for fetal development is exposure to nicotine rather than other components of cigarette smoke." "NRT, especially by transdermal patch, delivers more nicotine to the fetus than smoking does."
A March 2003 study published in Reproductive Toxicology found that the nicotine concentration in the brains of fetal mice were 2.5 times greater than the nicotine concentration found in the mother's bloodstream when nicotine was continuously administrated, as would be the case with the nicotine patch. A pregnant smoker need only imagine what it would be like if her mind were trapped and forced to constantly endure 250% more nicotine than normal.
http://whyquit.com/pr/021606.html
How interesting. Then according to medical research, could the electronic cigarette be safer to an unborn fetus, than the Nicotine Replacement Patch?
Study: 'Electronic cigarettes' don't deliver
By Paul Courson, CNN
"It may be worth noting, however, that while electronic cigarettes are purported to deliver nicotine to the user in a manner similar to that of a Nicotrol inhaler, no electronic cigarette has yet been approved as a medicinal NRT product or provided the necessary clinical testing for such approval. Moreover, doubts have been raised as to whether electronic cigarettes actually deliver any substantial amount of nicotine at all."

"I smoked 37 years, and when I found them, I was, like, 'Thank, you Jesus,' " Jackson said with a laugh, as a reporter visited his shop, No Smoke Virginia, coincidentally just a few blocks from where the research was conducted at Virginia Commonwealth."

"The latest clinical evidence suggests users are not getting the addictive substance they get from smoking tobacco. "These e-cigs do not deliver nicotine," Eissenberg said of the findings he expects to publish in an upcoming issue Tobacco Control, a product of the British Medical Journal Group."
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/08/e.cigarette/index.html

Even lower nicotine levels in the bloodstream. That's wonderful news.
Perhaps the body cleanses itself quicker of nicotine (without the *constant supply* of nicotine, such as the Nicotine Patch), along with all those 4000 toxins associated with smoking tobacco cigarettes... all of which the body must painstakingly cleanse itself of. I'm not suggesting women who are pregnant should use nicotine, but apparently, using an electronic cigarette sounds much safer (evidently, barely detectable in the bloodstream!) than nicotine patches, or traditional tobacco cigarettes.

From my blog "Staying and Living Smoke Free"
Staying (and Living) Smoke Free: Nicotine and Caffeine
 
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Interesting stuff. Wonder when they are going to quit crying about lack of studies and just do some blood tests, etc on regular smokers/regular vapers/etc to see what's going on. I really wonder if the 'no nicotine' is from test subjects who arent actually vapers.

Honestly? I saw the latter research as an attempted attack on electronic cigarettes. The former, likewise, was an attack on nicotine in general, at least having the sense to ask, "WHY QUIT?" because yes, the patch is dangerous, even lethal, but FDA approved. However, put those two pieces of medical research together and you've got something.

All they need to do is an amniocentesis on a few pregnant women who are using electronic cigarettes (because some women will simply refuse to quit nicotine), and extract amniotic fluid. All of which is a common medical procedure, and just see what percentage of nicotine is present and the fetus being exposed to compared to the patch, or normal levels of nicotine from tobacco cigarettes. I already know what will happen (from the research posted above) when the results are in, ethical Gynecologists will be recommending the electronic cigarette to protect the unborn.

Another thing you wont hear the FDA discussing,

Google : deaths transdermal patch

The statistics might surprise some people, just how dangerous the patch is. Yet its being sold on the shelves at Wal Mart and every mainstream drug store, nationwide.

I know somebody who told me about their sister receiving the patch, not for nicotine cessation but to relieve pain and received a lethal dose in just one patch. It happens, a lot. So, the same thing is happening to unborn fetuses... being overdosed on nicotine, through a steady, continual supply via the patch. That person, who's sister died from the patch suggested to me, if I ever wanted to quit smoking, not to use the patch. The patch can be potentially lethal.
 

yvilla

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Another thing you wont hear the FDA discussing,

Google : deaths transdermal patch

The statistics might surprise some people, just how dangerous the patch is. Yet its being sold on the shelves at Wal Mart and every mainstream drug store, nationwide.

I must be missing something. I did your suggested search, and all the results, as least for the first 3 pages, were on deaths from fentanyl patches.

Then I added "nicotine" to the search terms, and got a whole slew of results talking about the safety of nicotine patches, not about deaths at all.

Of course, overdoses are possible, but from what I've heard, they are usually associated with wearing numerous patches at once, or perhaps continuing to smoke and/or intake nicotine via other means while at the same time wearing a patch.
 
I must be missing something. I did your suggested search, and all the results, as least for the first 3 pages, were on deaths from fentanyl patches.

Then I added "nicotine" to the search terms, and got a whole slew of results talking about the safety of nicotine patches, not about deaths at all.

Of course, overdoses are possible, but from what I've heard, they are usually associated with wearing numerous patches at once, or perhaps continuing to smoke and/or intake nicotine via other means while at the same time wearing a patch.

Hope this helps.

The Patch - Stop smoking; tools, support and chat
A nicotine overdose can result in illness, heart failure, even death. Also, a significant amount of drug remains in the patch itself even once it is ...
www.silkquit.org › Home › FAQ -

Quit Smoking With the Patch - QuitSmokingSupport.com
Quit smoking using the nicotine patch. ... are wearing one or for hours after taking one off, you could suffer symptoms of nicotine overdose, such as death. ...
www.quitsmokingsupport.com/thepatch.htm

What is a Nicotine Patch?
It is absolutely critical that a person wearing a nicotine patch not smoke, as a nicotine overdose can occur causing severe illness or death. ...
www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-nicotine-patch.htm
 
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I must be missing something. I did your suggested search, and all the results, as least for the first 3 pages, were on deaths from fentanyl patches.
Then I added "nicotine" to the search terms, and got a whole slew of results talking about the safety of nicotine patches, not about deaths at all.
Of course, overdoses are possible, but from what I've heard, they are usually associated with wearing numerous patches at once, or perhaps continuing to smoke and/or intake nicotine via other means while at the same time wearing a patch.

To better explain,

Nicotine patch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A 21 mg dose Nicoderm CQ patch applied to the left arm. A nicotine patch is a transdermal patch that releases nicotine into the body through the skin. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine_patch

60 mg of pure nicotine placed on the tongue would kill in minutes.
Each cigarette smoked delivers about 1 mg of nicotine. ...
60 mg of pure nicotine placed on the tongue would kill in minutes.

Because, when they make these patches...often, they are DEFECTIVE patches. What happens when you get a patch, like the guy I told you about... the patch had 100x or 1000x the normal amount of medication on it??

It killed his sister outright. Yes, and it is a transdermal patch.

Fentanyl Pain Patch Lawyer: Lawsuits Involving Fatal Pain Patch ...
Too much fentanyl can be fatal. By August 2005, the FDA reported that ... The manufacturers of the Fentanyl Pain Patches sold DEFECTIVE PATCHES to ... has used Fentanyl Pain Patch and have suffered from overdose or death, ... The Fentanyl Pain Patches are used to deliver controlled doses of narcotic pain medication ...
www.millerandzois.com/Fentanyl-pain-patch-lawyer.html

All that needs to be on one of those so-called "21 mg" patches, is 60+ or 600 mg of nicotine... and death occurs. DEFECTIVE PATCH.

Overdose. The smallest of victims has already demonstrated by medical research (see Original Post), already unborn fetuses are being overdosed with 250% the normal nicotine compared to a pregnant woman who smokes cigarettes. Very unsafe. Period.

See the original post.

There's deaths among all forms of transdermal "patches"... nicotine is just one in the heap. There's commercials on television by law firms asking if anyone has been harmed/died due to transdermal patches... lawsuits emerging and commercials running on cable television channels. The patch is an ineffective and very dangerous system to deliver pain medication, nicotine, or *whatever* when its killing people using them.
 
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yvilla

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Sharon, none of the links you provided above change the only point I was making.

Those links all make the general point that, of course, a nicotine overdose is possible, and can in its most severe form lead to death. But their warnings about patches are in line with what I pointed out - concurrent use of patches and smoking or other nicotine ingestion is the most common concern, but nicotine patches are generally regarded as safe.

And none of them cite statistics regarding any alarming number of deaths associated with nicotine patches, which is what you seemed to be implying in the original post I was responding to. The overwhelming thrust of articles on the web about nicotine patches (and other NRT products), is their relative safety.

Fentanyl patches, on the other hand, do seem to have a pretty bad track record.

I'm not saying defective patches can't happen, or that nicotine overdoses can't happen. I'm only saying that your original post saying "do this search and you'll see alarming statistics about deaths from nicotine patches", did not accurately represent the results of such a search. And it does not really represent the truth of the matter either.
 
Sharon, none of the links you provided above change the only point I was making.

My original point is intact.

It's about MONEY.

How many deaths due to electronic cigarettes?

Tell me that.

Do those links you cite, mention that babies are being overdosed with 250% normal nicotine, every time a pregnant woman uses a patch? No, they don't mention that. They sing the praises of the "safety" the heck with all the people who DIED FROM PATCHES. They've got crap to pawn on the uninformed consumer who shops at Wally World.

Do they mention the deaths due to patches?

:p no, like a broken record parroting the FDA about "the wonderful safety of patches"... spreading lies about the safety of patches. People are dying from patches, whether its nicotine patches or pain killers.

THE PATCH CAN BE DEADLY. You're saying its safe??

But why don't you go searching for that 250% OVERDOSE of unborn fetuses? Go find all those pages discussing the truth! I challenge you: GO AND FIND THEM. Parrots. Those pages telling all about the "safety" don't have their actual facts together, now do they?
They're not medical doctors... and even if they are... doctors are on the forefront of pawning what the pharmaceutical companies want to pawn on the masses. Its about money... and ignorance by the public is a fast track getting to the bottomline: MONEY. Let's keep the public in the dark and IGNORANT about the lack of safety in transdermal patches, because we want your money." Pages and pages, singing the praises of the "safety" of a deadly product.

i.e., took how long for the FDA to realize it had made a huge error?

"Fen-Phen": Rise and Fall of a Diet Drug
Then, beginning in September 1997, almost 40 years after phentermine's FDA approval, Fen-Phen's increasing notoriety among lawyers spawned a surge in legal ...
www.facworld.com/facworld.nsf/doc/7casphen-fen

There were doctors singing the praises of Fen Phen's safety too... that's why people were being prescribed a concoction that killed them... afterall, the FDA said so, therefore, it must be so.

Find the truth about how deadly patches on those pages you refer to... of course not.

BECAUSE THEY WANT TO SELL THE CRAP THE FDA AND PHARMA FAT CATS are pawning... they're obligated to repeat what the FDA says, and the FDA wont change its mind until a medical product has killed thousands or tens of thousands, to decide the product isn't "safe". They've got to keep churning out that snake oil that has proven ineffective, outright deadly ... but the FDA can't make a mistake... why if the FDA says so, its got to be the "Gospel Truth" and just plain... hiding the actual medical stats.

People are DYING from the Patch. To use one is like playing Russian Roulette. THAT is the truth.

There is no "general safety" if you're the one on that receiving end of a defective patch or overdose (in the case of nicotine patches, the unborn...that truth is already known by medical research -- how long will it be ignored?) When is the FDA going to get off its rear-end and discourage pregnant women from using the patch and insist its better for pregnant women to continue to smoke than use a patch?

Safe... you say?

You need to read the original post again, and visit the "Why Quit" website. 250% overdose of unborn fetuses, is not "generally safe" by any stretch of the imagination.
 
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HeatherC

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Honestly? I saw the latter research as an attempted attack on electronic cigarettes. The former, likewise, was an attack on nicotine in general, at least having the sense to ask, "WHY QUIT?" because yes, the patch is dangerous, even lethal, but FDA approved. However, put those two pieces of medical research together and you've got something.

All they need to do is an amniocentesis on a few pregnant women who are using electronic cigarettes (because some women will simply refuse to quit nicotine), and extract amniotic fluid. All of which is a common medical procedure, and just see what percentage of nicotine is present and the fetus being exposed to compared to the patch, or normal levels of nicotine from tobacco cigarettes. I already know what will happen (from the research posted above) when the results are in, ethical Gynecologists will be recommending the electronic cigarette to protect the unborn.

Another thing you wont hear the FDA discussing,

Google : deaths transdermal patch

The statistics might surprise some people, just how dangerous the patch is. Yet its being sold on the shelves at Wal Mart and every mainstream drug store, nationwide.

I know somebody who told me about their sister receiving the patch, not for nicotine cessation but to relieve pain and received a lethal dose in just one patch. It happens, a lot. So, the same thing is happening to unborn fetuses... being overdosed on nicotine, through a steady, continual supply via the patch. That person, who's sister died from the patch suggested to me, if I ever wanted to quit smoking, not to use the patch. The patch can be potentially lethal.

I'm sorry and yes you're right about amnios being a pretty routine procedure...but as an almost 39 yr old woman who has had 4 miscarriages....removal of ANY amniotic fluid increases the risk for miscarriage
 
I'm sorry and yes you're right about amnios being a pretty routine procedure...but as an almost 39 yr old woman who has had 4 miscarriages....removal of ANY amniotic fluid increases the risk for miscarriage

You're right.

I had to sign a consent for the hospital to do it for that cause. It risks infection ... and other conditions that could lead to miscarriage.
In my case, they felt it was critical to perform an amniocentesis, fearing lab results hinted at potential Trisomy-18. But the labs came back showing it was a healthy baby.
They do amniocentesis all the time. Sooner or later they'll perform one on a female using electronic cigarettes. Its at that point they need to look into the nicotine levels that come with electronic cigarettes... but its my guess, they could gather that same information from the placental fluids with newborns of mothers who vape.

Unfortunately, at present... if you're using electronic cigarettes, and your doc questions, "Are there any smokers in the home." People using ecigs will get clumped together as "tobacco cigarette smokers" -- in contrast, they need to be counted as a separate group. I no longer smoke ... tobacco ... and I'll make sure to make a clear distinction during any physician appointments. "No. There are no smokers in our home."
 

HeatherC

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You're right.

I had to sign a consent for the hospital to do it for that cause. It risks infection ... and other conditions that could lead to miscarriage.
In my case, they felt it was critical to perform an amniocentesis, fearing lab results hinted at potential Trisomy-18. But the labs came back showing it was a healthy baby.
They do amniocentesis all the time. Sooner or later they'll perform one on a female using electronic cigarettes. Its at that point they need to look into the nicotine levels that come with electronic cigarettes... but its my guess, they could gather that same information from the placental fluids with newborns of mothers who vape.

Unfortunately, at present... if you're using electronic cigarettes, and your doc questions, "Are there any smokers in the home." People using ecigs will get clumped together as "tobacco cigarette smokers" -- in contrast, they need to be counted as a separate group. I no longer smoke ... tobacco ... and I'll make sure to make a clear distinction during any physician appointments. "No. There are no smokers in our home."

At my age they'd probably insist on doing one too....but it's still scary especially after already losing 4 pregnancies. There is a study that I saw and I think it was on the CASAA site that actually says we are getting LESS nicotine than we think. The study said they had smokers smoke cigs and another group used ecigs and then of course there was the control group that used none. The test showed that the ecig users had no more nicotine in their blood than the control group. Unfortunately like I said I didn't book mark it or anything but I do believe the study is on one of the ecig support group sites
 

HeatherC

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I know we're getting nicotine, so I tend to doubt the aforementioned study. While ecigs may deliver nic slightly slower then analogs, it does deliver! :D

While I agree with you whole heartedly on that! (couldn't have quit otherwise I think) I do think if it's a slower delivery with the relatively quick elimination that I believe I've read nicotine has....that would indicate to me that less would be crossing the placental barrier. I could be wrong, but thats what would make sense to me. Ya see I'm kinda hoping that now that i'm not a smoker anymore I may be able to get pregnant and actually carry to term...just one time :blush: of course I could just be fooling myself but i really hope not :laugh:
 
At my age they'd probably insist on doing one too....but it's still scary especially after already losing 4 pregnancies. There is a study that I saw and I think it was on the CASAA site that actually says we are getting LESS nicotine than we think. The study said they had smokers smoke cigs and another group used ecigs and then of course there was the control group that used none. The test showed that the ecig users had no more nicotine in their blood than the control group. Unfortunately like I said I didn't book mark it or anything but I do believe the study is on one of the ecig support group sites

If you come across that page about the placedo group vs ecig group and nicotine levels in the blood, again, please post the link. It definately makes a case for ecigs being better for pregnant women, over patches or traditional tobacco cigarettes. Would love to see concrete evidence ecig users have less nicotine in their blood stream... and if so, why?

I'd also read in another interesting essay on the web, the key ingredient in electronic cigarette vapor - polyethylene glycol - had been used in the past as a disinfectant -- the author was supposing "what if" smoker lungs one day came to be healthier than non-smokers? Amusing essay... but I didn't save the link, and I wish I had.

However, there's definately more "patch" deaths to include in the growing list ... the pages on the web may sing the praises of the patch, but there's a growing body of evidence, the patch is far from "safe".

The Pain Patch Delivery System Is Flawed And All Brands That Use This Method Have Problems
(Article from Legal Tube)

Actavis Transdermal Patch At Risk For Leaking | Faces FDA Recall
Does Actiq, Sandoz, or the Actavis Transdermal Patch Carry the Same Risk as ... health advisories warning of the potential dangers of product defects. ...
~ legaltube.com/.../Does-Actiq-Sandoz-or-the-Actavis-Transdermal-Patch-Carry-the-Same-Risk-as-Duragesic.aspx

I'd say there's a mounting trail of evidence, that patches are NOT safe.
Sad when you have to pull up drugs, individually, drug by drug to see just how many deaths have been caused due to the transdermal patch. I had only known of it, because of somebody who had a sibling die, thanks to the patch. Then I began seeing legal commercials on television... when will the FDA take it serious enough to end the use of the patch?

Ortho Evra Death, Teenagers family awarded $1.25 million ...
Mar 2, 2009 ... Ortho Evra Death, Teenagers family awarded $1.25 million settlement after daughter died from blood clots.
~ lawyersandsettlements.com/.../orth-evra-death-settlement.html

Ortho Evra Death - Online Lawyer Source
There have been recent findings of risks and problems associated with the use of the Ortho Evra birth control patch.
~ onlinelawyersource.com/birth.../ortho_evra_death.html

Concerned Women for America - Contraceptive 'Sex Patch' Linked to ...
Jan 5, 2005 ... The contraceptive patch, Ortho Evra, is responsible for the deaths of at least 17 women since its release on the market in 2002, ...
~ cwfa.org/articles/7168/CWA/life/index.htm

That's just deaths related to only *one* drug administered by patch. How many drugs are now being administered by patch? How many deaths attributed with each drug... how many people have to die, to prove to the FDA, using the patch is like playing Russian Roulette?

If there's pages on the web claiming the patch is "safe" they sure are way behind on their medical information.

Don't we all know already, you can't generally trust information that's posted on the web? It's flawed and outdated... we were taught in college, to trust nothing, unless it was coming from an up-to-date, peer reviewed scientific or medical journal... NEVER TRUST Wikipedia or other mainstream sources for your information. Especially something as crucial as medicine you'll put in your body...

Just days ago I was studying on Emphysema... when is Wikipedia going to get its information straight? Its claiming nonsense.
Emphysema
Research
A study published by the European Respiratory Journal suggests that tretinoin (an anti-acne drug commercially available as Retin-A) derived from vitamin A can reverse the effects of emphysema in mice by returning elasticity (and regenerating lung tissue through gene mediation) to the alveoli.[6][7]
While vitamin A consumption is not known to be an effective treatment or prevention for the disease, this research could in the future lead to a cure. A follow-up study done in 2010 found inconclusive results ("no definitive clinical benefits") using Vitamin A (retinoic acid) in treatment of emphysema in humans and stated that further research is needed to reach conclusions on this treatment.[8]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emphysema

Is that so? That's a mighty big promise... filling people full of false hopes, about it might "lead to a cure"? Wikipedia (and mainstream pages on the web) can say this or that or another thing, but they can not be trusted as reliable or accurate source of medical information and the only thing that will matter to the FDA and medical professionals in the end, are peer-reviewed studies, like PubMed (below). Really ticks me off that some are still saying the patch is safe when so many people have died using the patch, unborn fetuses overdosed and ... people keep on saying "the patch is safe" "the patch is safe," like parrots when statistically, there's a mounting trail of deaths, proving the patch is unsafe, time and time again ... trusting what pages say on the web about your medication could end in a death sentence. Same goes for Wikipedia's nonsense promise of a "cure for emphysema" :
Retinoic acid fails to reverse emphysema in adult mouse models.
Fujita M, Ye Q, Ouchi H, Nakashima N, Hamada N, Hagimoto N, Kuwano K, Mason RJ, Nakanishi Y.
Research Institute for Diseases of the Chest, Graduate School of Medical Sciences, Kyushu University,
Abstract
BACKGROUND: Previous work has shown that all-trans-retinoic acid reverses elastase induced emphysema in rats. Since there is currently no effective treatment for pulmonary emphysema, the effect of retinoic acid should be further investigated in other adult species. A study was undertaken using two murine models of emphysema to evaluate the effect of retinoic acid. METHODS: The models used were an elastase induced emphysema model for acute alveolar destruction and a tumour necrosis factor (TNF)-alpha transgenic mouse which exhibits chronic air space enlargement, loss of elastic recoil, increased lung volume, and pulmonary hypertension comparable to human pulmonary emphysema. All-trans-retinoic acid (2 mg/kg) was injected for 12 successive days after the establishment of emphysema. The effects of treatment were evaluated using physiological and morphometric analyses. RESULTS: In contrast to the rat, administration of all-trans-retinoic acid in these murine models did not improve the emphysema. Moreover, worsening of emphysema was observed in TNF-alpha transgenic mice treated with all-trans-retinoic acid. The level of keratinocyte chemoattractant (KC), a CXC chemokine, in bronchoalveolar lavage fluid was increased in TNF-alpha transgenic mice following retinoic acid treatment. These data raise the possibility that retinoic acid causes deterioration of emphysema by promoting inflammation in this model. CONCLUSIONS: In these models, retinoic acid did not show positive effects on emphysema. The effect of retinoic acid in the treatment of pulmonary emphysema remains controversial, and further studies are required to determine its physiological effects under a variety of experimental conditions.
Retinoic acid fails to reverse emphysema in adult ... [Thorax. 2004] - PubMed result
 
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HeatherC

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If you've read much on polyethylene glycol... it is also in injectable diazapam. Its in toothpaste, shampoo etc... also used in many foods including moist pet foods...(keeps it moist) It is also used in stage fog/smoke making machines...and in fire training smoke machines...and yet one of the claims the FDA made was they didn't know what happened when it was inhaled? Were the fire training ppl holding their breath?? LOL I'll go look for the link to that study now....
 

Vidi

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So let's say for the sake of argument that e cigs deliver no nictotine. Then what about my nicotine addiction for the last 25 years? Was it all in my head?

Patches and pills couldnt get me off cigarettes. The "approved" and "safe" methods were failures. My 510 on the other hand has removed me from cigarettes forever.
 

HeatherC

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I'm in complete agreement. According to a psychologist that I've talked to....there is alot more to cigarette addiction than just the nicotine tho I've had the same experience with those methods. My doc said it's about the hand to mouth habit too tho.

But I still think we're getting nicotine...I was just saying it was a study I'd seen...I'm still looking for the link...sorry got sidetracked and forgot what I was doing! (more to do with a traumatic head injury 17 yrs ago than no nicotine LOL)
 
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