Nicotine safety

[Kate]

Important information about nicotine

Do not use nicotine if you are pregnant. It could cause harm to the unborn baby. Use an effective form of birth control, and tell your doctor if you become pregnant during treatment. Nicotine can pass into breast milk and may harm a nursing baby. Do not use this medication without telling your doctor if you are breast-feeding a baby.

Do not smoke while you are using nicotine. Stop smoking as soon as your treatment begins. Smoking while using this medication can be dangerous.


Before using nicotine, tell your doctor if you have:

• heart disease, an irregular heartbeat, high blood pressure or chest pain;
• a jaw condition called TMJ (temporomandibular joint) disease;
• an overactive thyroid;
• diabetes;
• pheochromocytoma (tumor of the adrenal gland);
• liver or kidney disease;
• a stomach ulcer; or
• asthma or chronic pulmonary disease.

What happens if I overdose?

Seek emergency medical attention if you think you have used too much of this medicine, or if anyone has accidentally swallowed it. Overdose symptoms may include nausea; vomiting; ........; stomach pain; cold sweat; headache; dizziness; problems with hearing or vision; confusion; uneven heartbeats; chest pain; seizures; and death.

Do not smoke while you are using nicotine. Stop smoking as soon as your treatment begins. Smoking while using this medication can be dangerous.

Nicotine side effects

Get emergency medical help if you have any of these signs of an allergic reaction: hives; difficulty breathing; swelling of your face, lips, tongue, or throat. Stop using nicotine and call your doctor at once if you have any of these serious side effects:

• seizures; or
• chest pain or uneven heartbeats.

Less serious side effects may include:

• dizziness;
• belching or hiccups;
• stomach upset or nausea;
• mouth or throat soreness;
• dry or watering mouth;
• watering eyes;
• headache;
• runny or stuffy nose (when using the nasal spray);
• white patches or sores inside your mouth or on your lips (when using the inhaler);
• constipation;
• sneezing and coughing;
• changes in taste; or
• redness, itching, or burning where the patch is worn.

This is not a complete list of side effects and others may occur. Tell your doctor about any unusual or bothersome side effect.



What other drugs will affect nicotine?

Before using nicotine, tell your doctor if you are using any of the following drugs:

• imipramine (Tofranil);
• oxazepam (Serax);
• propranolol (Inderal), labetalol (Normodyne, Trandate), or prazosin (Minipress);
• theophylline (Theo-Dur, Theochron, Theolair);
• pentazocine (Talwin), or
• insulin.

This list is not complete and there may be other drugs that can interact with nicotine. Tell your doctor about all the prescription and over-the-counter medications you use. This includes vitamins, minerals, herbal products, and drugs prescribed by other doctors. Do not start using a new medication without telling your doctor.


Nicotine Information from Drugs.com

 

[Kate]

Pharmacodynamic studies indicate a complex dose response relationship, due both to complexity of intrinsic pharmacological actions and to rapid development of tolerance.

Toxicity - Human data:
Adults - The mean lethal dose has been estimated to be 30 to 60 mg (0.5-1.0 mg/kg).
Children - The lethal dose is considered to be about 10 mg of nicotine.

Nicotine (PIM)

Inhalation
In humans, acute exposure to nicotine even in low doses
(similar to the amounts consumed by tobacco users)
elicits autonomic and somatic reflex effects. Dizziness,
nausea and/or vomiting are commonly experienced by
nonsmokers after low doses of nicotine, such as when
people try their first cigarette. However cigarette
smokers rapidly become tolerant to these effects.

Nicotine (PIM)


Nicotine (PIM)

 

[Kate]

"We've all heard that cigarette smoking causes lung cancer and death, but can smoking also lead to a nicotine overdose? No, but it is possible to overdose on nicotine by using combinations of nicotine patches or nicotine gum and cigarettes at the same time. This combination puts much more nicotine into the body than smoking alone. Sometimes, nicotine can reach levels high enough to paralyze the muscles that control breathing or cause a heart attack."

How Drugs Can Kill

 

[e-pipeman]

My grandfather was taken to hospital with nicotine poisoning in the early 1930s. He was a very heavy cigarette smoker (untipped) and routinely took five cigarettes and a cold cup of tea to bed at night. The cigarettes were for smoking in bed at night - the tea to keep his throat dry. As vapers we run the risk of consuming more nicotine than we wish or even imagine unless we measure our consumption with care.

 

[Kate]

... As vapers we run the risk of consuming more nicotine than we wish or even imagine unless we measure our consumption with care.

That's absolutely right, it's important to keep track of approximately how many ml and mg of juice we dose ourselves with.

As a general guide:

Cigarettes usually give us 0.5 - 1.2mg nic per cig with 1mg being an average.

Eliquid potency is measured in mg per ml, eg 16mg eliquid contains 16mg nic per 1ml (approximately 16 cigs worth).

The exception to this measurement is Johnson Creek who use mg per 1.2ml (so their 24mg juice equals about 18mg per 1ml).

The average amount of eliquid members of the forum use is 2ml per day.

If you were trying to replace a 20 x 1mg cig per day habit you would need to vape 2ml of 10mg juice.

Small amounts of nicotine might be beneficial but higher doses can cause long term physical damage. Tolerance is quickly built up to higher doses and more nic is needed to gain the same effect.

 

[scrubadub]

If you were trying to replace a 20 x 1mg cig per day habit you would need to vape 2ml of 10mg juice.

I agree that we need to be careful how much we're taking in but doesn't the ammonia content in cigarettes skew these figures a bit? I was under the impression that it increases the effect of the nicotine entering the system. So while those figures may be correct on paper the reality could be that we need more nicotine from e-cigs to replicate the dose we got from fags.

 

[Kate]

That's a very good point Scrub, we don't know about different rates of absorption. PH is a factor in how nicotine is taken into our bloodstreams, the more alkaline the more we absorb apparently.

As far as I know cigarettes are acidic, cigars and pipe tobacco are alkaline. Our vapour is alkaline so it's possible that we are absorbing more nic with esmoking than with cigs.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/2801-questions-about-nicotine-2.html#post48477

 

[scrubadub]

I thought the main factor was that the reaction with the ammonia converts the nicotine to it's base form. Do you think we are being sold base nicotine?

 

[Kate]

I really don't know how freebase nicotine works or what it is that we're using.

A few people here have reported symptoms of nicotine overdose (including myself). Some of these reports were before even 36mg juice became available and were from seasoned smokers who were used to nic levels from cigs.

It's possible that we are absorbing more nic than we were used to with cigs and in some cases overdosing or significantly raising tolerance.

 

[scrubadub]

My understanding of it and I could very well be wrong, is that nicotine in tobacco smoke enters the lungs as particles in the smoke. Freebase nicotine on the other hand enters the lungs as a gas which enables it to pass in to the blood stream much more quickly, giving you an instant hit.

I'm not denying that many people are taking in more nicotine than before and I have read the stories about the overdose problems people have had. It would be interesting to know what form of nicotine we are taking in. With cigarettes we really maximise the hit from a dose. If we aren't using freebase nicotine then it's possible we are needing higher doses to achieve similar effects we got from fags. If we are freebasing then I suppose that also explains why doses are creeping up, we're all junkies.

 

[Bertrand]

Freebasing nicotine just means it gets absorbed quicker, making it more addictive. You would think it would also make it harder to overdose on, since you get a more immediate reaction. (But bear in mind we're talking about a few seconds difference here.)

Marlboro was the first brand to start using it, and when their market share jumped, people put it down to their brilliant advertising. Now just about all commercial brands have at least some in it (probably with the exception of boutique brands like Davidoff and Nat Sherman).

 

[Kate]

Lol, nicotine addicts are junkies, I agree.

I've heard it said that nicotine works faster with smoking, within a few seconds but takes a minute or so when vapourised. How true that is I don't know. That could be something to do with freebase as Bertrand suggests.

Something else at play is the other chemicals in smoke. Vaping doesn't give us chemicals such as harmine so we don't get the same hit. Some of us try to get the hit by increasing our nicotine intake but all that does is increase tolerance.

"... you can become tolerant to nicotine's effects -- you need to use more and more nicotine to reach the same degree of stimulation or relaxation -- and you can see how people would quickly move from smoking one cigarette to a pack a day habit."

HowStuffWorks "How Nicotine Works"

There is no satisfactory alternative to smoking for some people, nothing gives the same effect no matter what the nicotine dose. Ask TBob, he still craves cigs but doses himself up with nicotine from snus, stonewalls, a pipe and esmoking.

Where we are in danger, I think, is when we are unaware of the potential of the nicotine we use, there is no doubt in my mind that liquid nicotine is potent and potentially fatal. To try to replicate cig hits by increasing nic dose is not a logical use of the drug but I think some people do that.

This is a different habit and we should be aware of the amount of nicotine we are prepared to dose ourselves with daily. If we raise our dosage when stopping smoking it doesn't mean we are gaining effect, we are just gaining tolerance.

 

[BadSeed]

I think you're absolutely right Kate. We have to be very careful with this stuff. Nicotine is very toxic. Too much can be fatal. Vaping doesn't exactly replace smoking and it's not due to the amount of nicotine. It's other stuff in cigarette smoke that we're also missing. Increasing the amount of nicotine ingested doesn't alleviate those cravings, it just causes a higher tolerance of nicotine, which definitely isn't a good thing.

 

[scrubadub]

Agreed. I also think there should maybe be a bit more emphasis on using caution with high vapour producing devices on these forums. Using high dose juice in something like a 901 I think may be a litle less risky in the short term from an OD point of view. You're getting puffs of a similar volume to a pull on a cigarette and it's easier to tell when you may be pushing the limit of you tolerance.

The recent OD problem seemed to be a chap rapidly graduating from a 901 to a high vapour producer with high strength liquid. Once that's in your system there's not much that can be done other than ride it out. I discovered that myself when I first got my pipe. It's a bit like downing vodka by the shot or by the half pint.

 

[Kate]

I'll just add a link to the thread I think you're talking about where someone overdosed recently - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-smoking-discussion/3579-worst-headache-my-life.html

Poor Jimmy went from low nic (0.5mg) cigs to 36mg juice plus cigs. He got a very bad headache out of it and a trip to the hospital. I guess the device itself made a difference, if it produces high amounts of vapour there's probably more nicotine being inhaled. It was a Screwdriver with a 901 atomiser.

Actually it was that experience that got me thinking that we need to educate ourselves a bit more about the dangers involved in esmoking. That's why I started this thread, I'd like to think we are a community of individuals who make informed decisions.

 

[scrubadub]

I think that's a good idea Kate and yes that's the thread. I think it was over the course of about 4-5 days he went from being advised to start with a 901 to hitting the screwdriver with 36mg TW. I don't think that's the fault of the device and I didn't want to single it out. I have one and I love it and it really isn't being aimed at newcomers at all. Plus there are other devices that also give plumes of the stuff. However, there's a lot of talk on these boards about more vapour being better and I can see how you could get swept along with all that. I believe Jimmy made a post to this effect on that thread.

Trog has put a notice on his board to newbies about this and is advising they buy a kit with lower strength cartridges if they want the screwdriver which I think is a good move. It could maybe be made a bit clearer on here that more vapour = more nicotine and therefore more potential trouble.

 

[Kate]

Yeah, I don't think it's a problem with the device either, plumes of low nic vapour would be pretty neat. As disposables start to become more available I wonder if they will get refilled with high nic juice, they billow out clouds of vapour apparently.

Hopefully the message will sink in about taking measured doses and making adjustments for the vapour producing efficiency of devices.

There does seem to be a bit of a culture of higher nic and vapour being better around here. Forums are a bit anarchic so I guess all it's really possible to do is add a voice of reason when you can. Maybe start a thread or a poll to check out attitudes and encourage debate.

 

[jigtg]

I've heard it said that nicotine works faster with smoking, within a few seconds but takes a minute or so when vapourised. How true that is I don't know. That could be something to do with freebase as Bertrand suggests.

My nic tolerance has gone down so much I get nic high from just a couple puffs of 16mg liquid. And yes, it takes only couple seconds until I feel the hit. For the same reason, I've stopped inhaling vapor. Don't want to get high in middle of the day.. Lungs have huge surface area compaired to mouth which is why inhaling speeds up absorption alot.

 

[westy]

I purchased the screwdriver last week. first device and bought it included 36mg tw and also some 24 e-liquid. Which ive ebeen smoking happily for the past week or so. Chopping between the two. And ive smoked 15 mil since then so about 2 ml a day. ive had no ill affects nor any of the common symptoms from first trying e-cigs like soar throat etc.

Only side affect is dizziness after a good few drags which I enjoy as we all did we didn’t have a regular smoke for awhile and smoked it too fast leading to feeling a bit woozy. Well these threads have gotten me spooked and a little worried and im actually getting slightly paranoid to say the least. I bought the high end gear and juice because I felt id need the best to get off cigarettes. Which I have done I might add. I haven’t had one since last Monday

so it’s doing something right. But in hindsight I was very naive in buying high strength nic as a first timer. I have just placed an order for some med and low and 0 juices and waiting for them to arrive quickly as I actually don’t want to smoke the high stuff anymore as im getting paranoid that the lower nic concentrates will not suffice and I'll end up either going back to analogues or smoking the high nics forever

I have two bottles here and was wondering where I could get glycerine supplies to cut these with and what’s the best products and what isle and shelf can these products be found on? Never seen any glycerine sold before

cheers

 

[Kate]

Welcome to the forum Westy.

You can dilute juice with glycerine or propylene glycol. If you don't want to dilute the flavour you can use zero or lower nic eliquid to dilute.

I don't know where you are so can't advise on where to get supplies, you could have a look on this board and see if there's any help there - DIY e-liquid - e-cigarette-forum.com • The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat