PG/VG composition, DID you know that..........

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dannyv45

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I've seen many questions lately asking preferences as far as what's better, Nicotine solution in PG or VG? And whats a better base, more PG or more VG. I though I would put my blog out here to maybe answer some of these questions.

Nicotine composition as it pertains to VG, PG and how they react with each other as it relates to Nicotine strength

Many believe VG reduces nicotine strength more then PG. You first have to understand that the VG and PG solutions are carriers for nicotine as well as flavoring. The nicotine will not change it's chemical composition regarding strength regardless of what carrier it's put in. The nicotine will still be nicotine and maintain it's calculated strength regardless of the base (PG/VG) so it does not matter what nicotine solution you start with (PG/VG) if your end result is going to be a 50/50 base. You will still have equal parts of PG and VG and the nicotine strength will not change.

So rule of thumb for me is:

If you want a VG heavy base get Nicotine in VG
If you want a PG heavy base get Nicotine in PG
If you want a 50/50 base it don't matter.

Nicotine composition as it pertains to VG, PG and how they react with each other as it relates to taste.

It starts making a difference in taste when you move away from the 50/50 ratio because VG has a natural sweetness and it is thicker. So if your mix is lets say 80VG and 20PG the mix will be thicker and sweeter but the nicotine chemical composition and strength will be the same and unaffected.

So in short If you mixed it down to 12mg it will be 12mg regardless whether the predominant carrier is PG or VG and the only difference with a higher VG base will be a slightly sweeter milder vape and thicker viscosity depending on the ratio of VG/PG but the Nicotine level will remain the same.

How flavoring effects VG/PG composition

How flavoring effects VG/PG composition is a very different story. Flavoring as far as I know will not affect nicotine composition regarding strength but in an indirect way it does affect pg/vg composition regarding taste.
Not so much in the steeped finished product, but in the freshly mixed product you will notice a difference. VG is thicker and it takes longer for the flavor molecules to move through and blend or bond with the molecules of the VG solution thus the final taste is slower to arrive then if the mixture was PG.

You also have to realize that PG is a better desolving agent then VG so solid flavoring molecules (Base solid compound all flavoring starts out as) will quickly disperse through a PG solution. But the final flavor intensity after it is steeped will be the same regardless of high VG or high PG. So I don't really agree with most that say higher VG mixes need more flavor then higher PG mixes. I believe the mix just needs more time to mature. Further you also have to consider the added sweetness when using a high VG base.

Compensating the base

It also should be noted when formulating a base that there are other factors that will also influence the final mix such as what the flavoring base carrier liquid is (PG/VG or alcohol). The additional PG/VG or alcohol contained in the flavoring itself is additive to the base and needs to be taken into concideration and compensated for when formulating the base in order to maintain the proper Nicotine level.
 
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SthrnCelt

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I'm getting the impression you wouldn't agree entirely with statements like "PG for more flavor, VG for more clouds".

I agree with PG not being a better carrier of flavor. However, I do assert VG will produce better, more voluminous vapor. Also the vapor it produces (to me at least) is way more enjoyable with a sort of warmth that PG simply cannot compare to.

As to the OP's statements...I did not realize there was something going on at the molecular level with steeping juices. I felt that is likely happening at the point where the atomizer is heating the liquid but in the mixing bottle? Cool.
 

dannyv45

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As to the OP's statements...I did not realize there was something going on at the molecular level with steeping juices. I felt that is likely happening at the point where the atomizer is heating the liquid but in the mixing bottle? Cool.


Steeping does not happen at the vaporization level while vaping. Vaporization happens. Steeping is the process of all molecules of all added components (PG/VG/NIC/Flavoring) bonding and melding together. What process is used to accomplish this can be found in my steeping blog.

Everything you wanted to know about steeping and then some
 

dannyv45

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dannyv45

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Always great, Danny.

I'm particularly pleased to hear you say that PG isn't necessarily a better flavor carrier. I've always suspected that it's largely urban legend, and I'm getting the impression you wouldn't agree entirely with statements like "PG for more flavor, VG for more clouds".

Nicely done :toast:

As far as flavor carrying capabilities VG does as well as PG. The difference is in how well flavoring mixes into the carrier. VG is slower in distributing flavoring throughout the carrier and a worst desolver of flavor molecules but once flavoring is distributed it carries just as well as PG. So VG does not require more flavor but actually requires more steeping time then PG. I do agree with the "VG for more cloud" but you are correct I don't agree with it needing more flavor. VG does add slightly more sweetness and will produce a bit milder vape but flavor intensity is the same as PG once properly steeped.
 
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Exchaner

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I have experienced first hand the longer steeping times Danny is referring to when mixing with VG.... Make that a LOT longer. My typical tobacco mix usually steeps in 2-3 weeks when mixed at 50-50. But at 80% VG, the amount of time is almost doubled. If you're impatient as I am, you will keep on adding flavor, only to find at the end that you have added too much. Distilled water helps a bit, so does heat, but the main ingredient is patience.
 

SthrnCelt

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Steeping does not happen at the vaporization level while vaping. Vaporization happens. Steeping is the process of all molecules of all added components (PG/VG/NIC/Flavoring) bonding and melding together. What process is used to accomplish this can be found in my steeping blog.

Everything you wanted to know about steeping and then some

I'm sorry, I may have worded that poorly. What I mean was...when steeping is happening (in the bottle) I didn't realize anything was happening on a molecular level. I do imagine that when the atomizer heats the liquid it "excites" the molecules but that's not to say I think steeping is occurring at that point.

It doesn't matter either...I don't want to sidetrack the thread.
 

dannyv45

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I'm sorry, I may have worded that poorly. What I mean was...when steeping is happening (in the bottle) I didn't realize anything was happening on a molecular level. I do imagine that when the atomizer heats the liquid it "excites" the molecules but that's not to say I think steeping is occurring at that point.

It doesn't matter either...I don't want to sidetrack the thread.

There's nothing to be sorry about. We're all here to learn and make great vaping juice:). So don't be afraid to join in on the conversation that's why were all here.
 
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dannyv45

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I would like to say that VG adds quite a lot of sweetness, which is fine if you like sweet flavors, but a problem for those of us who don't.

Those that have a lower tolerance for VG or a hightened sense of taste often notice the sweetness more. I've also often noticed different sweetness intensity from brand to brand. But I've found that the average person when they use a good high quality grade of VG find the sweetness is actually negligible and barely detectable in the finished mix.
 
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dannyv45

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Once upon a time I read in these forums that nic separates in vg and forms ribbons and that it doesn't do that in pg. Based on that, I ordered my nic in pg for 50/50 mixes. I never see that mentioned any more. Maybe it was wrong? Or shaking it up solves the problem?

There was an interesting discussion on that on VPlive. That was true several years ago and caused by poor preperation from the vender. But today this very rarely happens. It was determined that if mixed properly VG NIC under 200mg in strength will not seperate if mixed properly.

It has further been determined that NIC in strengths over 200mg will seperate from VG even if mixed properly and this is why it was decided by the industry to not offer NIC over 100mg strength to the retail public. It can be found in strengths over 100mg but that is ment for professional commercial use.

What I would suggest is to buy your NIC from a reputable vender with a proven track record and not buy NIC from overseas venders.
 
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