Recipe questions on first try.

[charlie1465]

My example was just that to help give you a visual concept of what I was speaking to. You can certainly use any % you deem necessary to achieve your goal. As to whether or not this works? Many members still here today did not get the same advantages you are now enjoying, the experiences of those members gives you the best shot ever of accomplishing what you seek. If you do not wish to benefit from those members, it is certainly your choice.

Have a good day.

Do I detect a hurt tone here? No disrespect intended and I really appreciate your help so don't stop giving whatever advice you think is helpful. For me when your making a comparison by variation it is important to not introduce too many other variables...this is why I was in 2 minds about reducing an ingredient (GC)! In the end though I have reduced it (in an adjusted mix i've done half an hour ago) as research suggested that a lower % was more usual.

I shall look forward to discussing more recipe nuances with you

 

[MacTechVpr]

No probs....I like what you say about baseline methodologies as that's what I am trying to work from here.

With steeping a 6 week steep is the longest I've heard I don't know if this is going to be too long for some of my mixes but I've decided to take that approach because I can be pretty certain that it isn't under steeped. Also I expect that my juices should all be stable for at least that time so it shouldn't make any difference if I've left a 2 week steeper for 4 weeks more. At the moment I am working on the assumption that every juice reaches a stable state within and up to a 6 week period and then should stay that way. I will try and give you an example as my experience grows....I'm not promising though

I agree absolutely about consistency. That and a baseline are essential ingredients to any scientific study.

I have just remixed this weeks SnV at a 50% flavoring density (thanks for the technical term) as compared to the original but my baseline is slightly skewed now as I have also dropped the % of the GC

Time will tell if it is correct that fading flavours will be such a problem to stabilise that they are only useful in a SnV. I don't believe so at the moment but I hear what you are saying and I will be the first one to change my view and admit it if it proves to be the case. The problem for me at the moment is that every mix I have used as an SnV has changed drastically in just a few days so hence my attitude.

This discussion will have a lot of mileage I suspect

Just to clarify, some flavorings fade more readily than others. I find and agree with many that fruit flavorings fall into that category. Many sweet flavorings and accents do as well. If the accent's what you like and it happens to persist better than the strawberry you chose in six weeks, you may well love it. On the other hand, think this through…if you dropped the accent slightly and increased your base you could have something that's ready out of the gate in a few and is at your preferred flavor balance for the week or two that you might go through it. In other words, consider the element of time and utility.

I don't think locking in a steep time is the answer. Rather fractioning batches and testing 6x15ml bottles for steeping at say 5-day intervals might be a better approach to balancing your blend. If you want to go that route.

Test your bases as a one-flavor mix and in combo with other base ingredients until you find the right bal to your liking. This will move you a long way forward. Limit your accents, fruity and savory components (as these are the most likely to change as oxidation and ingredient bonding progresses or as/if primary flavors fade in contrast). You can always adjust the secondaries upwards to enhance their prominence in the character of the mix.

One of the greatest aids to me was compiling lists of min/avg/median/max %'s from all sources I could find to start building a table of my own for the flavorings I intended to use…of what/how much most people use and like! Especially those from accomplished well thought of recipe publishers. This will save you a tremendous amount of time finding working starting points for individual ingredients and combinations. There are also vaping and food industry lists of complementary flavorings, i.e. flavor pairing, which are incredibly useful. Bear in mind that a lot of recipes and %'s are noted by ex smokers who may still be struggling to salvage their taste buds. So when in doubt trust experience.

Prove all things. Don't be afraid to conclude that the averages are wrong! I'm no advocate of bread-and-butter vaping. We'll leave that to the pro's.

Best of luck.

 

[charlie1465]

On the other hand, think this through…if you dropped the accent slightly and increased your base you could have something that's ready out of the gate in a few and is at your preferred flavor balance for the week or two that you might go through it. In other words, consider the element of time and utility.

Yes I'm already ahead on this one but didn't try this as I'm a stickler for doing my own assessments even if it is a mistake....its and early days thing

I don't think locking in a steep time is the answer. Rather fractioning batches and testing 6x15ml bottles for steeping at say 5-day intervals might be a better approach to balancing your blend. If you want to go that route.

Yes this makes sense. Same as above really...I guess it depends on how disappointed I am with the first 6 week steep. I did, however, check a mix earlier so 6 day and it was nice but definitely had some faded fruit notes...I suspect that a lot that I have chosen to do now might not be something I will be doing in a few months time!!

One of the greatest aids to me was compiling lists of min/avg/median/max %'s from all sources I could find to start building a table of my own for the flavorings I intended to use…of what/how much most people use and like! Especially those from accomplished well thought of recipe publishers. This will save you a tremendous amount of time finding working starting points for individual ingredients and combinations. There are also vaping and food industry lists of complementary flavorings, i.e. flavor pairing, which are incredibly useful. Bear in mind that a lot of recipes and %'s are noted by ex smokers who may still be struggling to salvage their taste buds. So when in doubt trust experience.

I've already downloaded the complete list of averages etc from ELR but will do more research. Definitely noticed some of the respected mixers are keeping total %'s lowish. Where do you find the flavour pairings lists....that sounds really useful??

Yep I'm already on top of this one...most of the super great recipes won't even be public? The recent recipe I mixed last week was probably a case in point!!

Prove all things. Don't be afraid to conclude that the averages are wrong! I'm no advocate of bread-and-butter vaping. We'll leave that to the pro's.

I agree...i've always been a 'learn the hard way' kind of a guy

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Do I detect a hurt tone here? No disrespect intended and I really appreciate your help so don't stop giving whatever advice you think is helpful. For me when your making a comparison by variation it is important to not introduce too many other variables...this is why I was in 2 minds about reducing an ingredient (GC)! In the end though I have reduced it (in an adjusted mix i've done half an hour ago) as research suggested that a lower % was more usual.

I shall look forward to discussing more recipe nuances with you

A hurt tone, not at all. A gentle reminder that you are the one coming here seeking help/advise from those who may have more experience.

 

[Letitia]

Where do you find the flavour pairings lists....that sounds really useful??

Mixed drink recipes are very helpful finding good pairings you might not have thought of.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Mixed drink recipes are very helpful finding good pairings you might not have thought of.

Now you're letting on just a bit too much.

Good luck.

 

[Letitia]

shhh

 

[charlie1465]

I think that i'm going to call it a day with this thread before I get myself into serious trouble

Thank you to all of you who commented and gave such good advice which doubtless I will be using like a veteran in the coming months amongst the litany of unvapable juices i'm going to make during the steep (pun intended) learning curve.

I will post back concerning my adjusted recipe on each weekly sample using a new thread for that. It will be interesting to see how my starting ideas along with all your comments stand up to further examination

I fervently hope that DIY isn't one long 15ml shake n vape. We shall see.

All of you are much appreciated and in my view there were no unworthy comments here. Even in disagreement there is always assistance ... ..Until soon and thanks again

 

[MacTechVpr]

I think that i'm going to call it a day with this thread before I get myself into serious trouble

Thank you to all of you who commented and gave such good advice which doubtless I will be using like a veteran in the coming months amongst the litany of unvapable juices i'm going to make during the steep (pun intended) learning curve.

I will post back concerning my adjusted recipe on each weekly sample using a new thread for that. It will be interesting to see how my starting ideas along with all your comments stand up to further examination

I fervently hope that DIY isn't one long 15ml shake n vape. We shall see.

All of you are much appreciated and in my view there were no unworthy comments here. Even in disagreement there is always assistance ... ..Until soon and thanks again

Disappointed you're tapping out so quickly there Charlie.
You're welcome.

It seems like you are already well on your way to becoming an adept mixologist.

Good luck.

p.s. Avoid the cobwebs. The quicker we move past assumption, the faster we get to 250ml batches. Complacency meagers the vape.

 

[charlie1465]

Disappointed you're tapping out so quickly there Charlie.
You're welcome.

It seems like you are already well on your way to becoming an adept mixologist.

Good luck.

p.s. Avoid the cobwebs. The quicker we move past assumption, the faster we get to 250ml batches. Complacency meagers the vape.

I'm all for talking believe me but I need to do some steeping and further experimenting to be able to come back with some comments based in fact not just assumptions and ideas.

Going to start a new thread next weekend regarding the same recipe with a few tweaks and testing on a weekly vape basis up to 6.

If there is humble pie involved then so be it

Many thanks again for your input....

 

[MacTechVpr]

I'm all for talking believe me but I need to do some steeping and further experimenting to be able to come back with some comments based in fact not just assumptions and ideas.

Going to start a new thread next weekend regarding the same recipe with a few tweaks and testing on a weekly vape basis up to 6.

If there is humble pie involved then so be it

Many thanks again for your input....

There are three kinds of men: the one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. —Will Rogers

You're welcome. I try for the former but I've done my fair share of the latter. So you'll get no argument from me. Or most, we're a copacetic crowd here.

Good luck.

 

[charlie1465]

There are three kinds of men: the one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. —Will Rogers

You're welcome. I try for the former but I've done my fair share of the latter. So you'll get no argument from me. Or most, we're a copacetic crowd here.

Good luck.

Never underestimate the opportunity for discovery within the failed process.

 

[stols001]

There is no learning without failure. To learn, you have to be prepared to fail, over and over and over again, and be willing to address your failures, and not via a participation trophy either. You have to correct, be corrected, remain open minded, and when you fail, pick yourself up and dust yourself off, and be armed with the knowledge that with each failure, you have also learned something.

I believe this is conditioned DEEP within the human brain (I mean, look at kiddos learning to ambulate, that is basically the process of failing, over and over and over again) and getting up and trying again anyway.

I believe in many of our cultures and societies, the idea of failure is frowned upon, not to mention a WHOLE lot of stuff. I raised my kid as "old skool" minus harsh discipline, and he has remained an autodidact his whole life.

I see people apologizing for their dumb questions, giving up when they are 99% there (and I've done that too on occasion) but I'm like if you are a learner, you need to NOT be worried about your self esteem, you need to not be worried about failing (YOU WILL) and you need to remain curious and open minded and the really successful vapers on here in WHATEVER sphere, be it DIY or WHATEVER, they continue to work on improving their skills, they help each other, they freaking answer newcomers questions because of a general love of learning. If you have truly mastered something, you are often well equipped to teach, because you have mastered the process of LEARNING and experimenting.

This is what makes ECF great. And, if you are humble and open-minded, you are ALSO a good teacher.

I mean, my kiddo was such a speedy little middle school thing, so when I found out his public school did not have PE or recess (there's currently a bill changing that ATM) I immediately put him in an arts and charter school, and I was pretty sure he learned 0 math, but if you are an autodidact, you can teach yourself ANYTHING. I truly believe this. But making kids sit at desks like robots is just cruel and also QUASHES any desire to learn, grow, improve and etc. I remain glad I did it.

I wish that "to learn is to fail, over and over and over again" were stated each morning like we used to have to salute the flag. Teachers should encourage experimentation and failure if you ask me.

Anna

 

[charlie1465]

You've got it!!

 

[MacTechVpr]

Never underestimate the opportunity for discovery within the failed process.

A great rule to live by. Consider every challenge and adversity an opportunity. You'll never walk away empty-handed.

Good luck.