Sinus infection and earache after starting vaping

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BigEgo

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While I think the OP is jumping to conclusions, I also think the other posters are too quick to dismiss his/her valid concerns. The truth is none of you are doctors and have no business "diagnosing" this guy's condition.

I tend to agree it is probably a coincidence or an allergy to PG, but it might not be. I will always be the first to say to go see a doctor if you are concerned. However, the only problem with seeing a doctor is most of them have NO CLUE about vaping. If you tell them you are vaping they will look at you like you have two heads (I know I have already ran it past my doctor).

Which brings me in agreement with the OP: we simply do not know the extent of how safe or unsafe vaping is. If doctors have no clue, then message board posters have less of a clue. I agree there needs to be some regulation of some sort, mainly because, I as a consumer, am worried about mom and pop shops not knowing WTH they are doing when it comes to mixing e-liquid. That's why I will recommend you only stick to "big vendors" like HALO who are known for strict quality controls and who ship out tons of e-liquid.

What do we know about vaping so far? We know that no one has ever died (to our knowledge) from vaping. Some people have went to the ER for problems, but most of the time it had nothing to do with vaping or was a result of an allergy from the e-liquid. These people fully recovered. (Keep in mind that anyone can have an allergy to almost anything. Some people can die from eating peanuts, but it doesn't mean peanuts are inherently unsafe for most people). I have heard of people having PG allergies and even some having to seek medical treatment from vaping due to this allergy. I have never heard of the allergy being bad enough that the patient died, however. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, but I am sure it would have made the news if it had.

We also have two reports of lipoid pneumonia from e-cigs. One of them was in the U.S. and one was from the UK. However, medical experts have said it is impossible to get lipoid pneumonia from e-liquid because glycerin is not oil based (it is an alcohol). In the case of the U.S. woman (who survived) the doctors said in their report that it was a result of her e-liquid. I see two possibilities:

1) Vaping was a coincidence and the patient inhaled oils from some other source (you have to inhale oils to get lipoid pneumonia). The doctors knew that glycerin was an ingredient in the e-liquid (and said so in their report) and they said it was the cause of the pneumonia. So either these doctors are ignorant of glycerin not being an oil or they know something the rest of us don't.

2) If it was the e-liquid, it most certainly was very bad quality liquid or a DIY project gone bad.

If lipoid pneumonia were a real problem with vapers, we would have heard about more than two cases. Two cases is statistically insignificant. Millions of people vape now, and I am sure we would have heard about more than two cases if lipoid pneumonia were a real threat.

We know that PG and VG are both safe for human consumption and for use on the skin. Both have been studied for decades and were long ago deemed GRAS (generally recognized as safe). However, PG can be toxic at high levels, especially if taken intravenously. This can happen with benzodiazepine injections (Benzodiazepines include drugs like Xanax, Ativan, Valium, etc). The drugs use PG as a dilutant. These are sometimes given through an IV to calm people during surgery or to treat certain illnesses. There have been documented cases in the literature of the PG in these drugs causing death, usually through something called lactic acidosis. PG results in an increase in lactic acid. The body typically converts lactate to pyruvate and metabolizes pyruvate through the Krebs cycle. However, if there is too much for too long of a period, you can go into lactic acidosis, which can result in death. See this case report: Severe lactic acidosis after an iatrogenic p... [Pharmacotherapy. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI

So the obvious question is: Is it possible to get lactic acidosis from inhaling PG? If so, how much does it take? We don't know. However, if it were possible, I am sure we would have heard about it by now. All indications are that it would take an inhalation of much more PG than any human could reasonably vape in a short period. Some people do report joint pain after having started vaping, and this makes sense if you recognize that PG breaks down into lactic acid in the body. Lactic acid is known to cause joint stiffness or pain. The best way to avoid this is to vape a mostly VG juice. Say 70VG or even 100 VG.

And finally, in my area, the pulmonologist (lung specialist) has actually recommended people vape instead of smoke. My vape shop has a list of doctors on their wall who have told their patients to go there to buy a kit. I am assuming this pulmonologist (and the other general practitioners) have at least done a modicum of research into the issue. And I am sure they came to the conclusion that vaping, while maybe still new and not well researched, has to be safer than smoking.

I suspect there will be findings in the future that vaping might cause this issue or that issue in some people or that it isn't as safe as some proponents think. However, I never think any serious research will show it to be anywhere as dangerous as smoking cigs.
 

mkbilbo

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I don't want to hear that it's coincidence, it's not!

Prove it.

Correlation is not causality.

I think there needs to be testing and regulation of vaping from the FDA, I really do!

I think somebody's agenda is showing.

I might go back to vaping after it's proven safe, but not until then. I really like the idea of vaping but I just don't think it's safe, and people need to be warned of the possible complications.

I'm sorry, you're going back to smoking until vaping is proven safe? Because smoking is firmly established as healthy? And what color is the sky on your planet?

Guess you could always go with the FDA approved Chantix. Because suicide is a sure fire way to quit smoking...
 

davis0710

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From my own experience, too much VG causes congestion and my ears to plug up. For anything more serious, I would consult a doctor.

Seriously? This is the first I've heard of this and might be a God send! That is the only problem i have. Exactly what you just said. My ear clogs when breathing through my nose. Also dry sticky mucus that is hard when it finally breaks loose (tmi) if so sorry. I don't blame it on vaping though because I've always had minor sinus issues.
 

BigEgo

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Seriously? This is the first I've heard of this and might be a God send! That is the only problem i have. Exactly what you just said. My ear clogs when breathing through my nose. Also dry sticky mucus that is hard when it finally breaks loose (tmi) if so sorry. I don't blame it on vaping though because I've always had minor sinus issues.

I get that dried mucous on my mouthpiece on my tank (lol tmi). I think a lot of people do. I have to wash my "drip tip" or mouthpiece a couple times a day. I don't think it has anything to do with the PG, though.
 

MR. Mad

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I started vaping a few days ago and had problems immediately. I could feel chest congestion and sinus problems the first day, and then I got a sinus infection and earache. I haven't had a sinus infection or earache for years but I remember what it feels like, and vaping brought it on. I don't want to hear that it's coincidence, it's not! Lots of others who started vaping have had the same problem as noted in their posts here. I wonder if some people who start vaping get pneumonia, which is a worry I have? I know all the vapers on this forum have an interest in dismissing vaping side effects because for many it's their livelihood as well as something they enjoy, but to write off these earaches and sinus infections off as just coincidence is wrong! I quit vaping and hope this sinus infection and earache goes away. I might have to go to a doctor and get some antibiotics as others have done. I think there needs to be testing and regulation of vaping from the FDA, I really do! I might go back to vaping after it's proven safe, but not until then. I really like the idea of vaping but I just don't think it's safe, and people need to be warned of the possible complications.
let me get this straight you are new here... you have never made an account before today....but yet your very first post is to come into a e-cig forum and tell how adamantly you feel that e-cigs caused your problem and that they should be regulated by the fda.
not one question like " hey has anyone else experienced this" or " could vaping have caused this" or even take into account that it is winter and colds and flus are running rampant
so in my own personal opinion you are either
a. very confused and drew conclusions that are pretty much impossible
b. a liar or troll
c. work for a spin doctor company you know the same kind microsoft and other higher to to come on forums and spin things the way they want.
d. in the employ of big tobacco .
e. have had an allergic reaction to the juice you are using

advice given is sound stop vaping and stop guessing and see a real doctor to find out what is wrong with you .
in short i do not believe you .
and i have no monetary interest in you or selling vape gear . so i have nothing to win or lose by my statements.

hope you feel better ohh and fyi you do know that bacteria cause this right?
 

mkbilbo

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Seriously? This is the first I've heard of this and might be a God send! That is the only problem i have. Exactly what you just said. My ear clogs when breathing through my nose. Also dry sticky mucus that is hard when it finally breaks loose (tmi) if so sorry. I don't blame it on vaping though because I've always had minor sinus issues.

Some people are allergic to VG to some degree. It is vegetable glycerin and if you're prone to allergies, I'd wonder. I have allergies. Everybody in the family does. Comes mostly from mom's side. I mow a lawn, I'm congested as an LA freeway. :)

I may have a very mild, minor allergy to VG myself. It's so trivial, I can't be sure. But vaping first thing in the morning, I can have a bit of sneezing fit. But with my allergies, who knows? I am drifting toward more PG than VG lately because of taste. Now I'm curious if that periodic morning sneeze fest will ease off. But the allergies in my family? I'll probably never know what caused which.

Try 100% PG juices a while, see how that goes. But keep in mind, quitting smoking itself causes crazy congestion and sinus crud and other nutty respiratory issues as your lungs start trying to clear the mess from smoking. When the cilia start working again and start pushing the crap from smoking out, it can get kinda disgusting for a while. It's actually a positive thing. Just not pretty. :)
 

davis0710

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Some people are allergic to VG to some degree. It is vegetable glycerin and if you're prone to allergies, I'd wonder. I have allergies. Everybody in the family does. Comes mostly from mom's side. I mow a lawn, I'm congested as an LA freeway. :)

I may have a very mild, minor allergy to VG myself. It's so trivial, I can't be sure. But vaping first thing in the morning, I can have a bit of sneezing fit. But with my allergies, who knows? I am drifting toward more PG than VG lately because of taste. Now I'm curious if that periodic morning sneeze fest will ease off. But the allergies in my family? I'll probably never know what caused which.

Try 100% PG juices a while, see how that goes. But keep in mind, quitting smoking itself causes crazy congestion and sinus crud and other nutty respiratory issues as your lungs start trying to clear the mess from smoking. When the cilia start working again and start pushing the crap from smoking out, it can get kinda disgusting for a while. It's actually a positive thing. Just not pretty. :)

The worst part is that if you smoke and have allergies, the doctors won't help you. Well at least around here. I've been to the doctor probably 10 times off and on for sinus troubles but when they knew i smoked that's all they would blame it on. I've still never had an allergy test even though my sinuses mess up off and on year round. Pretty annoying!
 

AmandaD

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I suspect the OP has not smoked that long.....for those of us that smoked for a very long time, it is clear that vaping is far better for our health.

For someone who is young and hasn't smoked that long presumably the safest thing would be not to smoke - and not to vape.

No, we do not know the long term effects of vaping. However, personally it is extremely unlikely that I have as many years left to live as the years I smoked - and therefore I take the risk.

And it is always advisable to see a doctor for any health conerns.
 

zapped

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While I think the OP is jumping to conclusions, I also think the other posters are too quick to dismiss his/her valid concerns. The truth is none of you are doctors and have no business "diagnosing" this guy's condition.

I tend to agree it is probably a coincidence or an allergy to PG, but it might not be. I will always be the first to say to go see a doctor if you are concerned. However, the only problem with seeing a doctor is most of them have NO CLUE about vaping. If you tell them you are vaping they will look at you like you have two heads (I know I have already ran it past my doctor).

Which brings me in agreement with the OP: we simply do not know the extent of how safe or unsafe vaping is. If doctors have no clue, then message board posters have less of a clue. I agree there needs to be some regulation of some sort, mainly because, I as a consumer, am worried about mom and pop shops not knowing WTH they are doing when it comes to mixing e-liquid. That's why I will recommend you only stick to "big vendors" like HALO who are known for strict quality controls and who ship out tons of e-liquid.

Correction; YOU dont know that much about vaping and youre wrongly assuming the rest of us dont either. Maybe thats indicative of a Big Ego? :laugh: Please speak for yourself as some of us have been around and active on these forums almost since they first started.

You dont have to be a doctor to know that infections are caused by bacteria and you dont have to be a genius to tell that the OP has a thinly veiled agenda.

To my knowledge, he hasnt even bothered to reply to his sensationalist post.Which is kind of odd dont you think?

I recommend that both you and the OP visit the CASAA site and spend a few days looking at the info and studies they have posted there, you just might learn a thing or two.
 
Last edited:

dexgen

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Jan 29, 2014
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let me get this straight you are new here... you have never made an account before today....but yet your very first post is to come into a e-cig forum and tell how adamantly you feel that e-cigs caused your problem and that they should be regulated by the fda.
not one question like " hey has anyone else experienced this" or " could vaping have caused this" or even take into account that it is winter and colds and flus are running rampant
so in my own personal opinion you are either
a. very confused and drew conclusions that are pretty much impossible
b. a liar or troll
c. work for a spin doctor company you know the same kind microsoft and other higher to to come on forums and spin things the way they want.
d. in the employ of big tobacco .
e. have had an allergic reaction to the juice you are using

advice given is sound stop vaping and stop guessing and see a real doctor to find out what is wrong with you .
in short i do not believe you .
and i have no monetary interest in you or selling vape gear . so i have nothing to win or lose by my statements.

hope you feel better ohh and fyi you do know that bacteria cause this right?

Could not agree more.....as a objective person new to this great forum, there definitely seems to be an agenda in the original post.
 

Legolas

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While I think the OP is jumping to conclusions, I also think the other posters are too quick to dismiss his/her valid concerns. The truth is none of you are doctors and have no business "diagnosing" this guy's condition.

I tend to agree it is probably a coincidence or an allergy to PG, but it might not be. I will always be the first to say to go see a doctor if you are concerned. However, the only problem with seeing a doctor is most of them have NO CLUE about vaping. If you tell them you are vaping they will look at you like you have two heads (I know I have already ran it past my doctor).

Which brings me in agreement with the OP: we simply do not know the extent of how safe or unsafe vaping is. If doctors have no clue, then message board posters have less of a clue. I agree there needs to be some regulation of some sort, mainly because, I as a consumer, am worried about mom and pop shops not knowing WTH they are doing when it comes to mixing e-liquid. That's why I will recommend you only stick to "big vendors" like HALO who are known for strict quality controls and who ship out tons of e-liquid.

What do we know about vaping so far? We know that no one has ever died (to our knowledge) from vaping. Some people have went to the ER for problems, but most of the time it had nothing to do with vaping or was a result of an allergy from the e-liquid. These people fully recovered. (Keep in mind that anyone can have an allergy to almost anything. Some people can die from eating peanuts, but it doesn't mean peanuts are inherently unsafe for most people). I have heard of people having PG allergies and even some having to seek medical treatment from vaping due to this allergy. I have never heard of the allergy being bad enough that the patient died, however. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened, but I am sure it would have made the news if it had.

We also have two reports of lipoid pneumonia from e-cigs. One of them was in the U.S. and one was from the UK. However, medical experts have said it is impossible to get lipoid pneumonia from e-liquid because glycerin is not oil based (it is an alcohol). In the case of the U.S. woman (who survived) the doctors said in their report that it was a result of her e-liquid. I see two possibilities:

1) Vaping was a coincidence and the patient inhaled oils from some other source (you have to inhale oils to get lipoid pneumonia). The doctors knew that glycerin was an ingredient in the e-liquid (and said so in their report) and they said it was the cause of the pneumonia. So either these doctors are ignorant of glycerin not being an oil or they know something the rest of us don't.

2) If it was the e-liquid, it most certainly was very bad quality liquid or a DIY project gone bad.

If lipoid pneumonia were a real problem with vapers, we would have heard about more than two cases. Two cases is statistically insignificant. Millions of people vape now, and I am sure we would have heard about more than two cases if lipoid pneumonia were a real threat.

We know that PG and VG are both safe for human consumption and for use on the skin. Both have been studied for decades and were long ago deemed GRAS (generally recognized as safe). However, PG can be toxic at high levels, especially if taken intravenously. This can happen with benzodiazepine injections (Benzodiazepines include drugs like Xanax, Ativan, Valium, etc). The drugs use PG as a dilutant. These are sometimes given through an IV to calm people during surgery or to treat certain illnesses. There have been documented cases in the literature of the PG in these drugs causing death, usually through something called lactic acidosis. PG results in an increase in lactic acid. The body typically converts lactate to pyruvate and metabolizes pyruvate through the Krebs cycle. However, if there is too much for too long of a period, you can go into lactic acidosis, which can result in death. See this case report: Severe lactic acidosis after an iatrogenic p... [Pharmacotherapy. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI

So the obvious question is: Is it possible to get lactic acidosis from inhaling PG? If so, how much does it take? We don't know. However, if it were possible, I am sure we would have heard about it by now. All indications are that it would take an inhalation of much more PG than any human could reasonably vape in a short period. Some people do report joint pain after having started vaping, and this makes sense if you recognize that PG breaks down into lactic acid in the body. Lactic acid is known to cause joint stiffness or pain. The best way to avoid this is to vape a mostly VG juice. Say 70VG or even 100 VG.

And finally, in my area, the pulmonologist (lung specialist) has actually recommended people vape instead of smoke. My vape shop has a list of doctors on their wall who have told their patients to go there to buy a kit. I am assuming this pulmonologist (and the other general practitioners) have at least done a modicum of research into the issue. And I am sure they came to the conclusion that vaping, while maybe still new and not well researched, has to be safer than smoking.

I suspect there will be findings in the future that vaping might cause this issue or that issue in some people or that it isn't as safe as some proponents think. However, I never think any serious research will show it to be anywhere as dangerous as smoking cigs.

I think one shouldn't vape if you worry about intravenously delivered pg. When the rewards out weigh the benefit why would one continue to do it. I don't have the doubts about pg as presented but I'm a vg vaper. I can agree were not doctors. I'll keep mine short.
 
I have seen some VERY interesting posts in this thread, as i am new to the site also, (just made my account a little while ago) and have only been vaping for a very short time now, i have been an avid hookah aficionado for years (i have 6 hookah and have tried so many different coals, flavors, and setups), have smoked off and on for years (Marlboro Reds) and even done dip/snus pouches in the odd meantimes.

Bottomline, i did some research and finally just bit the bullet (the initial cost) and started vaping. i had had a major sinus infection crop up several months ago from a house i moved into that had a very bad mold problem (had to get a lawyer to break my lease so we could move out) seen a doctor and she told me without a doubt the mold was the cause, we went over my tobacco use, and pros and cons to anti biotics and what course of action would help to clear it up the soonest, keeping in mind i was not yet vaping at this time.

She essentially told me the antibiotic would help but not fix the issue. with my tobacco use the issue would be helped with a prescribed med, but only slightly, i was told to just ride it out or stop using tobacco until it went away so my immune sysem could pick up and clear it out. well ive been dealing with it for around 3 months now using snus pouches regularly and its only been slowly getting better.

As i said i just recently tossed the snus for a vape kit (picked up a spinner 1300, a aspire ce5 tank, and a kanger EVOD tank, got a small bottle of nicquid Blueberry tart 6mg nic, and a big bottle of Space jam Pluto 6mg) my initial cost total with case and charger was under 100 bucks and i have enough supply to last me around 3 months although i know ill be back in to get more flavors and tanks haha.

All that said and done, i can already tell my sinus infection has started to clear and i do believe it is solely due to the fact i dropped the 2-4000 different chemicals in the tobacco products i was using.

so this post is coming from somebody who had the OP's issue before I started vaping, and can say i have seen nothing but positive effects over regular tobacco usage. try different liquids from KNOWN trusted brands, Jamesons, Space Jam, Or perfected Vapes just to name a few, and use a low setting if you have a VV or VW to start off and set it up properly, improper setup can burn coils, burn seals and even melt some other parts which are not meant to be inhaled to begin with.

Just my two cents.
 

mkbilbo

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The worst part is that if you smoke and have allergies, the doctors won't help you. Well at least around here. I've been to the doctor probably 10 times off and on for sinus troubles but when they knew i smoked that's all they would blame it on. I've still never had an allergy test even though my sinuses mess up off and on year round. Pretty annoying!

That's worse than annoying, that's bad medicine. Yeah, okay, smoking doesn't help allergies but I'm more allergic to grass (erm... the lawn type you gotta mow) than tobacco. Seriously, mowing the lawn makes my sinuses furious with me the next day. I did better if I stayed inside and chain smoked!

Allergies are weird. They like to change over time. Ragweed used to knock me over like a flu. Now I barely notice. But mold? That's my big one now. And there's no "season" for mold. It comes and goes all year round. Yay!

My big three right now are mold, dust, and grass. So, of course, today I was at mom's digging through her garage to find which box had the vet records for her dogs and then cut the grass in the front yard. Toss in some rain, I'll hit the trifecta...
 

DaveOno

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zapped

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Personally, I think the OP is a snipe, going into the forum, dropping one negative post, then will probably not post again.

The thread has been reported but not sure if anything will be done about it.

Im not knocking the mods here but IMO some of them place too much importance on freedom of speech without realizing the danger of threads like these.

In the past year, we've seen an uptick in these kinds of posts and the only thing that makes sense is the other side is saving them to use against us. It doesnt matter if there are 50k other posts all extolling the virtues of vaping because they will pick and choose the posts that help further their agendas. I wouldnt put it past them to create posts to further those ends either.

If thats not the case with this post, (and I'll be very surprised if it isnt **take a look at the ops post count and lack of replies in this or any other thread) then why give them ammunition to use against us to start with? That just doesnt seem very smart or characteristic of people intelligent enough to find their way to this forum by doing their homework on e-cigs.

If you share the same concerns please report the posts. Maybe if they hear from all of us we can mitigate the damage somewhat.The mods cant be everywhere at once and have to rely on us to bring things like this to their attention.
 
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Red Horn

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slorigan

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Nope sounds like your having typical withdrawal symptoms there.

Or u can be having an allergic reaction to PG.

Pleae stop Vapeing and go back to smoking, which u feel is safer and it's regulated by the FDA.

Also see a doctor a real one please.


This is exactly the reply I was expecting. It's the typical denial of vape fans, blaming it on withdrawal from cigarettes. And it doesn't apply to me because I didn't quit smoking! I was smoking and vaping.
 

BearArcher1980

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Nobody but a Doctor can say for a fact what caused the sickness.
I can speak for myself only and I have been 7 days now cigarette free and have been vaping the past 7 days. Haven't had any sickness or side effects, just been fighting the cravings for the cigarettes which has become easier and easier each day.
I am very glad me and my wife made the choice to quit smoking!!!
 

slorigan

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stylezuk

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The thread has been reported but not sure if anything will be done about it.

Im not knocking the mods here but IMO some of them place too much importance on freedom of speech without realizing the danger of threads like these.

Same here after about the 5th reply put in as it could be dangerous and just has ANTZ all over it, was going to waste my time to say "Please don't feed the troll" forgetting that I'm not a Mod on these boards lol
 

mkbilbo

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This is exactly the reply I was expecting. It's the typical denial of vape fans, blaming it on withdrawal from cigarettes. And it doesn't apply to me because I didn't quit smoking! I was smoking and vaping.

Uh huh.

Trolling is one of the saddest cries for help ever seen.
 

slorigan

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While you are already expecting all of us to go against what you think and I will but every person is different. Same would go with smoking some people smoke for their whole life and never have a medical issue regarding smoking, some have complications with smoking in the first couple or years. I for one am pro regulations in moderation, yes putting the heat on what can be put in juice and making those ingredients more transparent to consumers is okay in my book. However the FDA likes to swing a big hammer and that can be bad as a whole.

Now as far as that chest congestion goes it could be one of three things:
1) If you were a smoker your lungs could be trying to heal from not inhaling smoke and tar daily
2) a sensitivity to pg which is kind of common and could be fixed by using heavier vg juice, less commonly would be a vg sensitivity(I have this) and you would need to use a higher pg juice.
3) Mental side note anytime we get sick we start thinking about who around us was sick, what we have done differently then normal.

I was a smoker who twice a year would get really bad sinus infections to the point where I would need to seek medical advice. I hate doctors and have even had injuries my wife would fight me about for days before I finally go to the doctor. Once I started vaping the first year it was only one bad sinus infection and the rest were common colds. Here we are 3 years later and no more sinus infections. Same goes for the wife but she has a weakened immune system so she needs to see doctors at the on set of the common cold.

Me: Thanks for a very sensible reply!
 
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