Unbearable side effects - help!

[Monica_dr]

Hi everyone,

About a month and a half ago I decided to quit my 2pack/day habit (for 25 years). I started with an ego aio and quickly transitioned to a Vaporesso Veco with a 0.4 coil. In two weeks I gave up the stinkies. Success! I was completely in love. But... Not quite.

I've had several intense reactions to it several times. In the beginning I had bouts of dizziness that passed quickly. Thought I might be nicsick but this happened even after several hours without any nicotine. It went away and I thought all was well until I started feeling short of breath and as if my throat was swollen. All the time. Not a lot, but enough for it to be uncomfortable, and more so when vaping. Also started to feel an intense pressure around my sinuses - had to put the vape down immediately when this happend as it was strong. This was all at 6mg/ml. Initially I thought it could be the PG, but then realised that the same 70/30 PG- containing liquids I used affected me more or less depending on the flavour. So I stuck to the flavours which gave me the least reaction and kept going. Tobacco ones felt particularly bad.

A few weeks in, the throat feeling went away but I did get a couple of itchy spots on my body. Nothing major, or even highly visible, but there nonetheless. And boy were they itchy. Still feeling short of breath. About a week ago I took a couple of puffs after a while without vaping before getting in the car and had a feeling of INTENSE pressure on top of my head. MASSIVE. As if someone/something was pushing me down. Hard. Scared the c*** out of me. But, it went away in about 20 minutes. Two nights ago I finished teaching (hadn't vaped in two hours), took a few puffs and got in the car. Pressure on top of the head came back, MASSIVELY. In a "I'm going to collapse" kind of way. Thank god I wasn't driving. This time it took about 30 minutes to disappear completely. I kept thinking I shouldn't blame it on the vape, it's probably something else, etc. But when I took a single puff 40 minutes later, it came rushing back and it was so bad I ran to unlock the front door in case I passed out. Scary as hell.

I haven't touched my vape in 36 hours, all the symptoms are gone, and I'm back on the stinkies. And sooooo sad. I love vaping. Love not smoking. Love everything about it. I'm quite frankly inconsolable. Just really sad.

Any ideas as to what the heck could be going on? Thank you!!

 

[Baditude]

Such strong adverse reactions attributed to vaping and disappearing when not vaping seems to point to a logical approach -- stop vaping.

Not what you were hoping for I'm sure. Should you wish to try to continue to vape since its keeping you off of the smokes, you should systematically eliminate the possible causes. Try a 100% Vg e-liquid. Keep track of which flavorings lead to side effects.

In the end, I feel obligated to encourage you to let your physician know what's going on. Explain that vaping allowed you to quit smoking. He may well advise you to quit vaping and suggest that you try nicotine gum or patches, or prescription drugs like Chantix, since you have been off of cigarettes successfully for a period of time.

I wish you luck and hope you find a solution that works for you.

 

[QcVaper]

Only got 1 advice, consult your physician we're vaping folks not docs unfortunately.

On another note welcome to ecf
Hope you do get this resolved as it seems serious.

 

[Jebbn]

I had a few problems after a while of vaping.
Rashes on my forehead, cheeks and under my nose. Sinus's were painful, numbness down the side of my face and I just felt really out of sorts. All sorts of different things going on.
I went through a process of elimination. I tried vaping just VG and nothing else and that worked fine, no problems.
I added PG and things started going bad again even as I reduced the amount of PG until there was only about 2% and I seemed to be ok with it so long as I vaped less and at lower watts.
I tried a few PG free flavourings and once again I suffered with sinus problems and rashes.
I settled on a mix thats simple to make and very cheap. VG/nicotine in a VG base/Distilled water @ 10-12%
No adverse reaction what so ever, a bit boring if you want bubble gum and lolly flavours.
Ive actually gotten to the point where I enjoy the mix over flavours I try. I have found some flavours I can vape but after a day vaping them Im happy to go back to my unflavoured juice.
Hope you find your way through this and if vaping doesnt work out something else does help you stay off the cigarettes

 

[zoiDman]

... Also started to feel an intense pressure around my sinuses - had to put the vape down immediately when this happend as it was strong. This was all at 6mg/ml. Initially I thought it could be the PG, but then realised that the same 70/30 PG- containing liquids I used affected me more or less depending on the flavour. So I stuck to the flavours which gave me the least reaction and kept going. Tobacco ones felt particularly bad.

...

Hi Monica_dr. Welcome to the ECF.

I have read where some people have said that they have Side Effects from certain Flavorings/Sweeteners. I would suggest trying Unflavored in 6mg/ml and also 3mg/ml and see it that works Better for you.

And Don't Kick yourself to much for going back to Cigarettes.

BTW - How Much Water do you drink on an Average Day?

 

[tailland]

Allergic reactions can take many (scary) forms. Not everything is settled with a drooling nose.

Test run:
1. Return to your Ego AIO.
2. VG100 without flavors and no nic (pharmacy)

That's the most non-critical setup I can think of. If that doesn't give you problems, you can work your way up.

 

[Monica_dr]

Hi Monica_dr. Welcome to the ECF.

I have read where some people have said that they have Side Effects from certain Flavorings/Sweeteners. I would suggest trying Unflavored in 6mg/ml and also 3mg/ml and see it that works Better for you.

And Don't Kick yourself to much for going back to Cigarettes.

BTW - How Much Water do you drink on an Average Day?

Since I started vaping I've doubled my water intake. Maybe more.

I'll have to try unflavoured, pure VG, etc, and really go through the process of elimination. Hard to do here as it's not readily available but I'll figure it out. I also have an appointment with my ENT doctor to get tested for allergies. He knows about all of this and still thinks it's the nic. I don't, especially being a heavy smoker who on occasion had tree packs of marlboros in a day no problem, but I'll have another go at 0 nic today just to make sure.

Yesterday I did something I hadn't tried before and simply vaped less. A LOT less. I average 6ml a day, yesterday I had less than 2. Very light/no reaction. Which doesn't mean anything really but at least I smoked less.

Thank you all heaps for the advice!

 

[Cool_Breeze]

As far as 'itching' goes, some can have a psoriatic type reaction to PG. Keep an eye out for dry skin, etc. If you find that happening, you may want to more towards the VG end of the sprectrum, if not all the way to max VG.

 

[zoiDman]

You'll get there Monica. It can just take some Trial n' Error sometimes to find what works.

 

[Monica_dr]

You'll get there Monica. It can just take some Trial n' Error sometimes to find what works.

Thanks!! I'll let you guys know the results of my experiments and allergy tests. It'll be interesting, if nothing else.

 

[BrotherBob]

About a month and a half ago I decided to quit my 2pack/day habit (for 25 years). I started with an ego aio and quickly transitioned to a Vaporesso Veco with a 0.4 coil.

Welcome and glad you joined.
Suggest you go back to non sub ohm vaping and see if this helps. This may solve your problem, give it a try first. Larger clouds and high vape temperatures can effect people differently.
Might like to read:
Resistance is Futile - Vapor Connection LLC | Pittsburgh's Premiere Vapor Shop & Lounge
What Ohms should I choose?
Efficiency. Thinner wire and higher resistance VS thick wire and lower resistance
Higher Resistance, Lower Wattage vs Lower Resistance, Higher Wattage
The Vaper`s Guide to Flavour Chasing: 10 Tips To Maximise Flavour

Any ideas as to what the heck could be going on? Thank you!!

Since vaping is currently banned in Brazil, obtaining PG and VG may be a problem. If not a source problem, suggest you vape one (both without nic) and observe effects and if a adverse reaction occurs using one, test the other. If you obtain any adverse reaction to both unadulterated PG and VG,then vaping is not for you.
If no reaction either, then add *nic (nic can be purchased where legally allowed, suspended in solution with either PG or VG) to one or the other and repeat previous. The idea here is to discover whats causing your adverse reactions within a systematic progression of elimination.
If you happen to have no reaction to the above, then obtain a bottle of one DIY flavor,add it to a ratio of your choice and repeat the above elimanation experiment. Any adverse reaction to any of the steps may signal your problem.
* Free base vs nic salts could be a cause:
Freebase vs. Salt Nicotine: What's the difference?
Juices with Salts Thoughts?

 

[Monica_dr]

Secondly, You said you're using 6mg of nicotine. That's usually pretty high for sub-ohm vaping. That can also be a factor. And lastly, some people are allergic to the type of coils they use.
If I was you, I would get some pure VG and try to vape that and see how it goes(with no nicotine). If you experience some issues then change the metal of the coil. If everything is okay, then add some VG based nicotine. You might want to look into DYI e-juices i.e. make your own.

Thanks for the suggestion. Today I'm experimenting with 0 nic 70%VG again as I don't have the pure VG/PG yet. Very light reactions so far, but need to vape it a while longer to make sure. Also, I smoked a pack of ciggies in two days so I've just put my body though yet another change. (Hadn't done that in a while)

The idea here is to discover whats causing your adverse reactions within a systematic progression of elimination.
If you happen to have no reaction to the above, then obtain a bottle of one DIY flavor,add it to a ratio of your choice and repeat the above elimanation experiment. Any adverse reaction to any of the steps may signal your problem.

That sounds like the way to go (process of elimination). I did find a supplier of VG, PG, nic, etc, here in Brazil, so will order some and some TPA flavours and start experimenting as you suggested. It's going to be little by little.

I'll do all of that before I consider switching equipment. I hear you, but I am absolutely crazy about my current EUC 0.4 coils and the oh-so-warm vapour. I'll go there if I have to!

Welcome Gosh. Where to start.
6 weeks in, you are not 'done' with smoking. Your body is not close enough to the moment you are free. Maybe it's a quitting smoking issue.
Maybe it's too much liquid at too high power. Subohn isn't for everyone.
I would try a lower power Pod system with 12mg instead.
Vaping has not been an easy ride at times for me but I persist as smoking is not an option. It should not be an option for you. Try to find the answer in Vaping rather than letting the evil sticks win.

Hey, 2 smokes today, so winning again! Thanks for the advice. And there may be a quitting thing happening for sure. I was a damn heavy smoker, my body must be all out of whack. I'm sure that, on top of all the experimentation, there'll be an adjustment period.

 

[DaveP]

Thanks!! I'll let you guys know the results of my experiments and allergy tests. It'll be interesting, if nothing else.

Allergy testing can be a valuable tool for discovery. I went to an allergy doctor years ago to find out what I was allergic to. They drew dots the inside of my forearms and did scratch tests on both arms for various allergens using a pick from each tray. About 15 minutes after they scratched the pattern of dots with liquids from a tray that corresponded to the marks I started to see a couple of marks puff up and turn pinkish/reddish. Those were the things I had a reaction to.

Maybe they should use PG and VG in your tests. It's so simple that you could do it yourself for those two. The scratch tests were simply a plastic pick from each tray. They barely broke the skin and waited 15 minutes for a reaction. The reaction was like a mosquito bite.

I'd like to hear what the doctors find. Vegetable oil and VG are in many foods and PG is in medicines and it's even in soft drinks to prevent excessive foaming. Google PG and VG and see the long list of things that contain one or both. That might be informative.

Allergies, Conditions and E-Liquid - The Complete Guide to E-Cig Safety

Like pretty much anything else we ingest or inhale, not everybody reacts in the same way to the constituents of e-liquid and the resulting vapor. In most cases, the only side effect is some minor throat irritation, but for some people it can be much worse.

Finding out about the potential reactions you can have to e-liquid, medications or conditions which may have an interaction with nicotine and the advice is regarding pregnancy and e-cigs helps you stay safe when you’re vaping.

Of course, this is for information only; if you’re concerned about any of the topics covered here – but understandably don’t want to go back to smoking – you should see your doctor and follow his or her advice.

What Is the Difference Between Glycerin and Glycerol?

Glycerin is used extensively as a sweetener in chocolate filling, cookies and cakes. The colorless compound also serves as a humectant in soaps and lotions. Glycerin-based remedies treat such skin issues as rashes, acne, burns, psoriasis, bites and calluses. Glycerin soaps treat fungal and yeast infections and soften and ameliorate dry skin. Cough syrups and dietary supplements are also manufactured using glycerin. Adding the ingredient to weight-loss products prevents dehydration during exercise and enhances physical stamina. The ingredient is also added to toothpastes and mouthwashes to kill bacteria.

Propylene Glycol in Food: Is This Additive Safe?

 

[r77r7r]

Welcome. Pretty strange effect and quite unusual. Let us know what it was then. Pg, vg, or eliquid choice? Funny that you don't also get reactions from all the chemicals in cigarettes.

 

[leftyandsparky]

I had a few problems after a while of vaping.
Rashes on my forehead, cheeks and under my nose. Sinus's were painful, numbness down the side of my face and I just felt really out of sorts. All sorts of different things going on.
I went through a process of elimination. I tried vaping just VG and nothing else and that worked fine, no problems.
I added PG and things started going bad again even as I reduced the amount of PG until there was only about 2% and I seemed to be ok with it so long as I vaped less and at lower watts.
I tried a few PG free flavourings and once again I suffered with sinus problems and rashes.
I settled on a mix thats simple to make and very cheap. VG/nicotine in a VG base/Distilled water @ 10-12%
No adverse reaction what so ever, a bit boring if you want bubble gum and lolly flavours.
Ive actually gotten to the point where I enjoy the mix over flavours I try. I have found some flavours I can vape but after a day vaping them Im happy to go back to my unflavoured juice.
Hope you find your way through this and if vaping doesnt work out something else does help you stay off the cigarettes

Same here, that’s why I mainly vape menthol. I do not have a reaction to real flavors vg line of flavors, I’m currently enjoying menthol with watermelon from RF.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

I had a few problems after a while of vaping.
Rashes on my forehead, cheeks and under my nose. Sinus's were painful, numbness down the side of my face and I just felt really out of sorts. All sorts of different things going on.
I went through a process of elimination. I tried vaping just VG and nothing else and that worked fine, no problems.
I added PG and things started going bad again even as I reduced the amount of PG until there was only about 2% and I seemed to be ok with it so long as I vaped less and at lower watts.
I tried a few PG free flavourings and once again I suffered with sinus problems and rashes.
I settled on a mix thats simple to make and very cheap. VG/nicotine in a VG base/Distilled water @ 10-12%
No adverse reaction what so ever, a bit boring if you want bubble gum and lolly flavours.
Ive actually gotten to the point where I enjoy the mix over flavours I try. I have found some flavours I can vape but after a day vaping them Im happy to go back to my unflavoured juice.
Hope you find your way through this and if vaping doesnt work out something else does help you stay off the cigarettes

My move away from PG took care of my dry skin problems. Going flavorless got rid of my sinus drainage. Flavorless has also been known to cure shineyitis...but you didn't hear that here.

 

[asmcriminal]

As others have said, I think it might be a PG reaction. MAX VG does not mean 100% VG either. I forgot how it works but even 60% VG can be labeled MAX VG. I think it has to do with the flavorings being PG based. If a company uses VG based nic, adds some flavoring(PG) and tops it off with VG they can say it is MAX VG.

Secondly, You said you're using 6mg of nicotine. That's usually pretty high for sub-ohm vaping. That can also be a factor. And lastly, some people are allergic to the type of coils they use.

If I was you, I would get some pure VG and try to vape that and see how it goes(with no nicotine). If you experience some issues then change the metal of the coil. If everything is okay, then add some VG based nicotine. You might want to look into DYI e-juices i.e. make your own.

 

[zoiDman]

Thank you so much!! I'd read the first link you posted and although I was skeptical of a PG allergy due to the fact that I haven't been coughing or had a sore throat, it's definitely possible, I guess we all react differently. I did have an allergy test done like the one you described when I was a kid! Guess it's time for another one. I'll definitely let you guys know the results.

Today I basically chugged 2 mls of 0 nic juice as a test and felt just fine, so maybe my doc was right after all re: too much nicotine. Didn't do 2 more only because I needed my nicotine, so that was the extent of my experiment. I just couldn't get my head around getting too much nic at 6mg/ml, even sub-ohming. Not when I smoked as much as I did (chain smoker all the way). Go figure. Going down from 12mg/ml (first week) was hard enough as the throat hit was *awesome* and at 6mg I'd call it a "meh".

The irony of feeling great when having a cigarette and unwell when vaping is not lost on me. Geez.

Just wondering How you are doing?

And if you have found a Combination that works for you?

 

[JSL_Aus]

Hi Monica_dr,

sorry to hear that vaping has been giving you a bad time. I hope that if you want to use vaping to get off and stay off the smokes, that you can figure out what works for you.

I know that for me, in 6 months of vaping and free of the smokes, I've had a range of issues, some may be vaping related, some were (or are) a result of quitting smoking.

The first thing that I was able to figure out is that I got more anxiety and mild depression when I quit smoking, but more noticeably when I went from my 18mg strength juice down to 12 and 9mg juices. At first I thought everything was fine, but looking back, my increased anxiety started when I dropped the nic strength. At the moment I am back on my 18mg juice, and I feel much better again. I also have had dizzy spells as well, not as bad as you describe, but a number of times I have felt a bit unsteady for a few seconds, mostly when changing position. For me, this could be anxiety related, or perhaps blood-pressure related, or maybe my body is still getting used to oxygen , having been starved of it all those years I was a smoker. Ironically, when I was a smoker, my blood pressure was reliably 120/80; but the first time I had a reading since off the smokes, it was closer to 150. My Dr. thinks it is a result of the higher anxiety I was feeling at the time. Whilst conventional wisdom says that quitting smoking should lower blood pressure, there are tons of reports of people who experienced higher than normal blood pressure after quitting smoking.

As othes have said, if you can, try experimenting with 0 nic vs higher nic, and try 100% VG, then 100% PG, all one by one, and see if you are able to reliably nail down any (or none) of these as the cause. The difficulty is being able to identify what is vaping related (if at all), what is a result of not smoking (if at all), and then what might be another cause.

In my journey I have been able to identify that high or max VG liquids tend to upset my stomach more, with associated trips to the "local throne room". Also, as much as I wanted to cut the nic strength down, for now I have decided that I'd rather just vape 18mg and not feel anxiety and depression. For me (and I am not saying this is true for you), when I was in more extreme states of anxiety from getting less nicotine, I noticed that any body feelings, pains or symtoms I was feeling were greatly magnified. For you, if you are sub-ohming, you might be getting a lot more nicotine. As other have suggested, maybe go back to a mouth to lung kit at higher Ohms. That way you'd get less nicotine, but could still have the vape-to-mouth behaviour and pleasure, closer to smoking behaviour.

Hope that helps, and please let us know how you get on.

 

[JSL_Aus]

You talk about your experience with anxiety and mild depression during quitting and as you cut down your nicotine levels, it made me curious , were anxiety or mild depression a part of your life before you quit tobacco or is this a new thing for you?

Hi Jebbn,

no, it's not too personal at all. All we can do is try and help each other, I often rely on online support for things. Sometimes, conventional wisdom, or even Doctors can only help so far.

For me looking back, I had a spike in anxiety that seemed to correlate very much with the time I reduced the nic strength from 18mg down to 12 and 9mg. It was quite by accident, I just wanted some juice that only had 12 and 9mg as the highest nic strengths. I noticed that the lower nic didn't make me want to go back to smoking, but over a period of about 2-4 weeks, my anxiety levels steadily rose, until it was a real problem again.

Before I ever smoked, I had anxiety issues - general anxiety, as well as panic attacks on and off. For whatever reason, smoking seemed to reduce or almost eliminate my anxiety. Also, the times I had tried to quit smoking before, i would notice an increase in both anxiety and depression. In fact, the last time I ever quit before this time, I got a week off the ciggies, and my anxiety levels (as well as depression) got so bad I just thought "stuff it, this ain't worth it!", so I started smoking again. That was in 2004.

There are compounds in tobacco called MAOis - monoamine oxidase inhibitors, that, when we smoke, may explain why smoking for some is used to help with things like depression and anxiety. I am not sure of the role, if any, that nicotine itself plays with anxiety and depression, although for me, it was probably just a factor, as, 3 months off the ciggies coincided with reducing nicotine strength, and that is when my anxiety started increasing.

I use an alpha brainwave meditation program that does help a bit with my anxiety. These audios are known as brainwave entrainment (binaural beats or isochronic tones). For anxiety, brainwave entrainment that induces alpha or theta states tend to be the best IMHO.

Anyway, anxiety is horrible, so I hope your friend can get some relief from it.

Cheers - Justin.