Cloud9vaping pulls Five Pawns and other liquids from the shelf after testing.

[zoiDman]

I emailed cloud 9 yesterday as I did FP. five pawns replied and Cloud 9 didn't. It was cloud 9 who stated email us for test results. They put up numbers but no lab data or contact information.

Now that the Lible Card has been played, do you Foresee Cloud9 releasing any Additional Information regarding any of this?

 

[WillyZee]

C9 has probably made a few eliquid sales from their announcement.

maybe C9 should have waited until we have industry wide concrete standards before declaring what standards they feel another company's product should fall under.

Sound advice the C9 lawyers have given them.

I would not be surprised if we don't hear from C9 concerning 5 Pawns eliquid any time soon.


Sent via iPhone

 

[Mazinny]

I have the C9 lab certificates. I wonder if i should consult with a lawyer before forwarding it to others who have asked for it. Pretty sure the cease and desist doesn't apply to me but ...

 

[zoiDman]

I have the C9 lab certificates. I wonder if i should consult with a lawyer before forwarding it to others who have asked for it. Pretty sure the cease and desist doesn't apply to me but ...

Careful. Five Pawns has Deep Pockets.

LOL

 

[SavePaperVapor]

Scribd
Whoops, I dropped this accidentally.

 

[Mazinny]

Yup it had to be Russ to publish them... He lives to be sued it seems. He has publicly invited certain vendors to sue him on his podcast. lol

 

[Skeebo]

Careful. Five Pawns has Deep Pockets.

LOL

$37.50 for 30mls of Diketones Reserve has insured them pockets are deep!

 

[zoiDman]

Report No: BD25744ECF 18th March 2015
L VenableCloud 9
VapingUnit 13 Anglo Business Park, CheshamBUCKS HP5 2QA
Sample Description: Orange
Laboratory Reference: BD25744
Sample number: 1514
Submitted by: Lisa Venable
Date Received: 19 February 2015

Date analysis completed: 24 February 2015 TEST REPORT

The above sample has been analysed for nicotine by isotope-dilution gas chromatography-mass spectrometry and for other compounds and contaminants by gas chromatography-mass spectrometry with results as under.

Parameter Result Notes Method

Nicotine 0.26 % by weight
Propylene glycol* 73%
Glycerol* 27%
Diacetyl* 0.004%
Acetylpropionyl* 0.2%
Acetoin* 0.1%
Diethylene glycol* Not detected Less than 0.1%
Ethylene glycol* Not detected Less than 0.1% Detection limit for nicotine is 0.01 g/100g.



---

A Little Off Topic. But is This e-Liquid supposed to be 50%PG:50%VG ?

Or does Five Pawns offer other PG:VG Ratios?

 

[zoiDman]

$37.50 for 30mls of Diketones Reserve has insured them pockets are deep!

 

[rurwin]

A Little Off Topic. But is This e-Liquid supposed to be 50%PG:50%VG ?
Or does Five Pawns offer other PG:VG Ratios?

It seems to me that they have not taken into account that they have added 30% flavouring diluted with PG, although that sounds like a lot of flavouring. Also note that some of those assays report significantly less than 3mg/ml of nicotine. They only sell 0, 3, 6, 12 and 18.

 

[hypocritelecteur]

Motor vehicle deaths and injuries are not imaginary data points. The risk from driving can be calculated to some degree. Diacetyl death and injury is not imaginary either. How long has vaping butter flavor been a thing? A few years at least? And how many BO cases have been reported? None. The only documented death and injury has been in industrial settings.

That is real data, even if it is incomplete. Thus, I stand by my hypothesis that driving is more dangerous than vaping butter flavor. The point being to put some perspective on how risky vaping may be compared with other common daily activities. This was in response to many posts here declaring diacetyl to be "dangerous," or at the very least worthy of great concern.

I disagree. There are numbers. MVAs result in about 33000 deaths every year. Diacetyl has been linked to much fewer deaths and then only in industrial settings -and even then it was only a correlation which does not always equal causation. Those are facts.

What I'm trying to get across is the idea that people should not react out of fear based on zero evidence. Artificial sweeteners are a good example where fear wins out over facts.

i don't think I'm projecting my feelings. I'm using rationality to arrive at a conclusion. With diacetyl, there is nothing to find out. The only injuries have come in industrial settings. If industrial-level exposure and injury were the criteria used to determine harmfulness of chemicals, we would all be drinking purified water and organic vegetables.

The topic is indeed murky. Fear is what causes the murk. Look at things as they are and draw conclusions without letting the fear circuit influence your thinking (the general you).

I wasn't speaking to you. Me and you, we're cool. You're maintaining a shred of rationality!

 

[Mazinny]

It seems to me that they have not taken into account that they have added 30% flavouring diluted with PG, although that sounds like a lot of flavouring. Also note that some of those assays report significantly less than 3mg/ml of nicotine. They only sell 0, 3, 6, 12 and 18.

They were all 3 mg bottles that were tested.

 

[zoiDman]

It seems to me that they have not taken into account that they have added 30% flavouring diluted with PG, although that sounds like a lot of flavouring. Also note that some of those assays report significantly less than 3mg/ml of nicotine. They only sell 0, 3, 6, 12 and 18.

I read it to mean that there was 73% PG Total PG. But there is an Asterisk after Propylene Glycol which I can't find the Reference for.

 

[WillyZee]

70/30 PG/VG ?

One could detect that by just looking at the juice.

I have never noticed a bottle of 5P juice that appears as runny as 70/30.




Sent via iPhone

 

[zoiDman]

Wow... Check out this one...

 

[rurwin]

Start with 35ml of both PG and VG, then add 30ml of mixed flavouring. The flavouring is almost all PG with just traces of the flavouring chemicals. So you get 65:35 PG:VG, which is close to those numbers. You can get closer to 70:30 if you don't count the PG in the nicotine solution either.

I have no idea what is going on; just saying how those numbers could happen. If the Cloud9 assays are as wrong as Five-Pawns says then there is no need to explain them.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

I know there's a large number of people on here that hate Five Pawns and right now they're all salivating over this. Sticking it to the man right? F*** big corporations (which 5 Pawns is not). What is with the whole stupid attitude of Vapers thinking they are revolutionaries? We inhale chemicals into our lungs, we're not fighting any kind of war.

Get over yourselves. They are trying to protect their company. It was irresonsible for this compnay to publish test results when there is no standard for testing. I hope 5 Pawns goes after them very aggresively and dismantles them. I used to vape 5 Pawns but don't anymore and not because of these incompetent test results.

And how do we know that 5 Pawns test results were competent?
Answer = We don't.

 

[bman1977]

And how do we know that 5 Pawns test results were competent?
Answer = We don't.

Exactly we don't. No one knows anything. Five Pawns didn't come out attacking anyone.

 

[hypocritelecteur]

Except they did.
"Fraudulent" is a pretty serious accusation.

 

[zoiDman]

Start with 35ml of both PG and VG, then add 30ml of mixed flavouring. The flavouring is almost all PG with just traces of the flavouring chemicals. So you get 65:35 PG:VG, which is close to those numbers. You can get closer to 70:30 if you don't count the PG in the nicotine solution either.

I have no idea what is going on; just saying how those numbers could happen. If the Cloud9 assays are as wrong as Five-Pawns says then there is no need to explain them.

I don't think Anybody knows what is Going On.

---

And with regards to PG:VG Ratios. When a Retailers says that an e-Liquid is 50%PG:50%VG, are they Saying that that is what the Final Proportions are? Or is that the Proportions Minus the Nicotine and Flavoring/Sweeteners?

I personally Don't care if a PG:VG ratio is Off. Or if an e-Liquid is Supposed to be 3mg/ml and it turns out that it is Actually 1.8mg/ml

But it did Catch my eye.