Cloud9vaping pulls Five Pawns and other liquids from the shelf after testing.
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To satisfy any consumers who are looking for a line of e-liquids that are completely diacetyl and AP-free, this summer we are introducing a new PG-alternative line of vapor liquids that will deliver the same legendary flavor profiles that Five Pawns is known for, while offering an alternative to people with PG sensitivity. The new line of vapor liquids will also solve the flavor problem for those who have sacrificed taste in pursuit of greater vapor production.
Say what ?
Say what ?
Goodbye folks! Rational thinking is leaving the thread. Assumptions and ignorance do not suit me well so i'm off now. Have fun with all your conspiracy theories and faulty scientific evidence.
This thread is dead news. When it's all over five pawns will have a outlet in the UK called cloud9. You stepped in s**t cloud 9 now what are you going to do?
You seem Very Confident of the Outcome. Not sure why? But that's Cool.
I predict that Nothing will come of this Either Way. Neither side stands to Gain Much by this Escalating into a Legal Battle. And the Only Real Winners would be the Lawyers on Both Sides.
The Real Losers here are the Consumers if No More Transparency and Independent Testing by OEM's/Retailers does Not occur.
But what Else is New?
Cloud 9 already had to back off. If they are right why would they? Just asking. Looking at the results they posted was nothing more than a handmade spreadsheet with numbers on it.
Lawyers always win no matter what side of the table they sit on.
Right vs Wrong sometimes has No Bearing as to why a Company like Cloud9 would pull down the Results of a Lab Test.
If I have more Monies than you do to wage a Long, Drawn out Litigation, is it Always Prudent to Fight Against me? Especially when you have Almost Nothing to Gain?
Any Good Lawyer will tell you that Once the Toothpaste is out of the Tube, it Doesn't Matter if you put the Cap Back On or Not.
Cloud9 took the Toothpaste out of the Tube. So What if they Now put the Cap Back On?
The posted PDFs are not a handmade spreadsheet with numbers on. They are exactly what I would expect as a summary report from a laboratory. These are from this one: Analytical services, West Yorkshire Joint Services
Cloud9 is not being fraudulent here. There may be a mistake, there has to be a mistake somewhere, but it isn't a purposeful deceit. They gain nothing from this. They got bad press from selling stuff they now say is unsalable, and they had to stop selling a line that doubtless brought them in a lot of sales.
However they have nothing to gain and much to lose by pursuing it. They therefore backed down and will continue to do so.
Cloud9 is not being fraudulent here. There may be a mistake, there has to be a mistake somewhere, but it isn't a purposeful deceit. They gain nothing from this. They got bad press from selling stuff they now say is unsalable, and they had to stop selling a line that doubtless brought them in a lot of sales.
However they have nothing to gain and much to lose by pursuing it. They therefore backed down and will continue to do so.
I'm not going to Speak for Cloud9
But what I saw as a Motivation for Publishing the Results that they were given was to Alert Consumers to Exactly what they were Buying. As I recall, there were Other e-Liquids displayed Besides Five Pawns.
Did Cloud9 do it to minimize Bad Press? Did they Do it because they were getting Static from Vendors when they Told them what they had found? Did they do it because they consider AP and DA to be a Health Risk? Or perhaps some from Column "A", a Little from Column "B", and a dose of Column "C"?
I dunno.
I would like to See Every Retailer sending Random Samples of Every Batch of e-liquids they Sell to Independent Labs. And the Results of All e-Liquids sold on their site Posted.
The right move is to simply take FP off the website and say nothing. It's not their call to post numbers which may not be correct. They didn't need to blog it to the vaping world.
If I send an e-Liquid to a Nationally Recognized Lab, and I trust their Protocols and Technical Expertise, is it Wrong for me to Publically Post their Results?
I am not a lawyer, but...
To my mind, they overstepped themselves calling it fraud. That's a criminal offense and requires intent and profit, which would be hard to prove. An accusation of libel would have been more on-point and it is definitely possible for a foreign national to sue a UK citizen for that.
I'd have to check the libel laws on that. The truth is a perfect defense but if the mistake is on Coloud9's side, they might be in the wrong.
I believe they could argue that either the USA or the UK were valid jurisdictions since Cloud9's website can be viewed in the USA and the servers might be there. However if they refused to turn up then there is little the US courts could do to force them. The chances are that 5P would choose to prosecute it in the UK.
To my mind, they overstepped themselves calling it fraud. That's a criminal offense and requires intent and profit, which would be hard to prove. An accusation of libel would have been more on-point and it is definitely possible for a foreign national to sue a UK citizen for that.
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