Well yestrday I spent about 6 hours with the mouthpiece upside down to give it a conical top, and it seemed to do well. There was still a gap between the cone and the wall of the chamber thanks to a big o-ring, but it still passed the test. Come evening I hogged out a conical shape in another flush-to-wall fitting mouthpiece as opposed to having the small straw offset in a flat top. The end result is flavor is the same goodness it was, but much less condensation and vapor production is definitely up. Quite happy with this and surprised too.
BOTTOM FEEDERS= a place for everything modified and/or custom made
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The main issue here is that vaping and taste are very much subjective concepts
I even have a hard time with my own subjectivity...I run multiple Derringers and I have them set up differently on a couple to effectively "increase" harshness...which is driven by the flavour of the juice and the PG/VG ratio I've mixed for it. As much as I try to analyse what's going on, for me, it really comes down to trial and error. One of the reasons I wonder if there's a silver bullet rda out there is when the top air's like the Rogue and the Mini FS hit the market, some rave about them, for me, not so much.
I think that even if someone did design the perfect rda from a "physics" perspective...there's going to be a group of peeps out there who will disagree. I've always been a closet F1 fan and have been fascinated with the design and dynamics of the cars...and by extension the handling characteristics and controls/cockpit layout...if Ferrari is going to pay Vettel $30M/yr, he gets the telemetry/layout he wants...however, his Nirvana could very well render the car undriveable for another. I don't think it can be argued that the shear performance of an F1 car is off the charts, but is there an "across the board" set-up? I think Steve's idea of the modular design may be the way to go.
I even have a hard time with my own subjectivity...I run multiple Derringers and I have them set up differently on a couple to effectively "increase" harshness...which is driven by the flavour of the juice and the PG/VG ratio I've mixed for it. As much as I try to analyse what's going on, for me, it really comes down to trial and error. One of the reasons I wonder if there's a silver bullet rda out there is when the top air's like the Rogue and the Mini FS hit the market, some rave about them, for me, not so much.
I think that even if someone did design the perfect rda from a "physics" perspective...there's going to be a group of peeps out there who will disagree. I've always been a closet F1 fan and have been fascinated with the design and dynamics of the cars...and by extension the handling characteristics and controls/cockpit layout...if Ferrari is going to pay Vettel $30M/yr, he gets the telemetry/layout he wants...however, his Nirvana could very well render the car undriveable for another. I don't think it can be argued that the shear performance of an F1 car is off the charts, but is there an "across the board" set-up? I think Steve's idea of the modular design may be the way to go.
Turbo does this kinda explain things? yeah a masterpiece!quigs, the things you mention are all indeed variable factors that will affect things no doubt, as well as many others no ones mentioned yet , but I can tell you for sure that all the basic properties of fluid dynamics, pressure differentials and airflow definitely does still apply, even in a chamber as small as this
pete I use stagnant as a description for little movement, largely undisturbed and relatively still compared to it's surroundings, kinda like the eye in a storm would be. yes stagnancy can be associated with foul odors when it comes to some things like stagnant water,here instead it's associated with throat hit and harshness,and yeah lots of people like various amounts of throat hit, not always a bad thing, I add some sometimes for a little more kick, or bite, or hit, or whatever you want to call it,but in order to really control it it helps to understand it which is why I've spent effort studying it trying to figure it out.just knowing how it works is one thing, figuring out why is another. for example we all know raising a coil or moving it back slightly will increase throat hit, but I never really knew exactly why until really seeing enough of the whole picture. it's like the moment that light bulb goes on in your head and finally all the bits and pieces come together and make sense
Yes sadly when an atty is reviewed what's measured? Nothing tangible or clearly quantifiable other than vapor production (which frankly is dependent on the individual build). As I said the whole issue here is down to the individual's taste and preferences.
Granted there have been attempts in making customizable atties like the Plume vail with it's variable chamber and multiple intake options but we've yet to see a truly customizable modular atty and I personally think it's the way to go. An atty with several chamber options, several post configurations and a wide selection of air intakes and cap options all compatible with a master base unit. Pick and choose and modify to suit your taste.
Granted there have been attempts in making customizable atties like the Plume vail with it's variable chamber and multiple intake options but we've yet to see a truly customizable modular atty and I personally think it's the way to go. An atty with several chamber options, several post configurations and a wide selection of air intakes and cap options all compatible with a master base unit. Pick and choose and modify to suit your taste.
hi quigs and all the peeps contributing ! very interesting ..well I hated the taste of the derringer ! got to play with it some more so . the most annoying thing of all attys to me is ...leaking ! from taifun to all drippers so far. I think the air intake should be coming from the top .and than directed to where ever you want it with a small tube.
will seal the side holes on a derringer and drill a hole on the top and place the coil in the correct place.the pix is from my atty building days a long time ago it was a vertical ss covered in cotton .
You shouldn't be complaining, you made an atty that has customizable chamber and no posts for experimenting. you might be more important than you thinkOh, so it's like that, huh?
"please, sir, can I have a different word?"
"oh, you don't like stagnant huh? . . . how about this? . . . . . stagnant AND harsh!!"
"yes . . . . thank you, sir . . . . ."
Sooooooooooooooooo, JK
Ok, I'll get out of the way, now . .. . and let the true brains get back to work!
captain, you're right,throat hit and harshness are 2 different things but I think the line between them is blurred for many and I think many associate throat hit with harshness, in that I think many will favor a little harshness and say that it is increasing throat hit. the harshness gives the vape a bit more bite and substance, you can "feel" it more, as a hit. that's why I'm just using the term "added throat hit", because I think many will relate to what I'm talking about in this context.
Aal, I have tried to think of good ways to illustrate my thoughts and I think I have a few good ideas for ways to illustrate some of my theories but for now here is a quick sketch, just to kind of show what I mean by "stagnant pocket"
this first diagram is a coil that's slightly below center on the air inlet, the main airflow through the atty extracts fresh prime vape from the coil and brings it out the driptip, most of the dead space that is not in the higher velocity air stream is what I am labeling as stagnant, it's largely and for the most part stagnant, although some will always wind up being mixed back into the slipstream, exactly how much is what determines the overall vape and flavor. I don't mean to try and illustrate that it's really this cut and dry and that all of the airstream is like I'm showing because there are still many other areas of turbulence combined with pressures created from vapor shooting from the coil and many other factors, this is just illustrative of the main bulk of the airflow. as you can see the main bulk of the airflow leaves the stagnant pocket largely still for the most part
now here in this diagram the coil has been moved up to slightly above centerline of the inlet, now when the incoming rush of air "hits the coil" more of this airflow is deflected below the coil, this in turn adds movement and flow and turbulence through the otherwise still stagnant pocket and causes much more of this stagnant aftervapor to mix with the airflow that exits the chamber
I'm reducing some things down to there simplest form for illustration and to not try to confuse things but in doing so there will be technical inaccuracies, calling it throat hit is def one but there are many others, for example, air doesn't really come in and hit the coil, what really happens is by sucking on the driptip you are creating a vacuum and all air movement is really more just a result of pressure differentials, pressure will always equalize with the path of least resistance and this is actually what creates our airflow. this can get very deep and scientific and I really love discussing this because more eyes means more thoughts and more thoughts can help to get an even clearer picture of what is going on. not so sure this is the right thread for it but for now I'm happy to discuss it here.
I have thought of making a thread outlining all of my theories so guys can try to poke holes in it and add to it and bring it to an open discussion but I never got down to really trying to do that, I think that will be one very long first post
Aal, I have tried to think of good ways to illustrate my thoughts and I think I have a few good ideas for ways to illustrate some of my theories but for now here is a quick sketch, just to kind of show what I mean by "stagnant pocket"
this first diagram is a coil that's slightly below center on the air inlet, the main airflow through the atty extracts fresh prime vape from the coil and brings it out the driptip, most of the dead space that is not in the higher velocity air stream is what I am labeling as stagnant, it's largely and for the most part stagnant, although some will always wind up being mixed back into the slipstream, exactly how much is what determines the overall vape and flavor. I don't mean to try and illustrate that it's really this cut and dry and that all of the airstream is like I'm showing because there are still many other areas of turbulence combined with pressures created from vapor shooting from the coil and many other factors, this is just illustrative of the main bulk of the airflow. as you can see the main bulk of the airflow leaves the stagnant pocket largely still for the most part
now here in this diagram the coil has been moved up to slightly above centerline of the inlet, now when the incoming rush of air "hits the coil" more of this airflow is deflected below the coil, this in turn adds movement and flow and turbulence through the otherwise still stagnant pocket and causes much more of this stagnant aftervapor to mix with the airflow that exits the chamber
I'm reducing some things down to there simplest form for illustration and to not try to confuse things but in doing so there will be technical inaccuracies, calling it throat hit is def one but there are many others, for example, air doesn't really come in and hit the coil, what really happens is by sucking on the driptip you are creating a vacuum and all air movement is really more just a result of pressure differentials, pressure will always equalize with the path of least resistance and this is actually what creates our airflow. this can get very deep and scientific and I really love discussing this because more eyes means more thoughts and more thoughts can help to get an even clearer picture of what is going on. not so sure this is the right thread for it but for now I'm happy to discuss it here.
I have thought of making a thread outlining all of my theories so guys can try to poke holes in it and add to it and bring it to an open discussion but I never got down to really trying to do that, I think that will be one very long first post
I have been waiting for such a thread my whole lifecaptain, you're right,throat hit and harshness are 2 different things but I think the line between them is blurred for many and I think many associate throat hit with harshness, in that I think many will favor a little harshness and say that it is increasing throat hit. the harshness gives the vape a bit more bite and substance, you can "feel" it more, as a hit. that's why I'm just using the term "added throat hit", because I think many will relate to what I'm talking about in this context.
Aal, I have tried to think of good ways to illustrate my thoughts and I think I have a few good ideas for ways to illustrate some of my theories but for now here is a quick sketch, just to kind of show what I mean by "stagnant pocket"
this first diagram is a coil that's slightly below center on the air inlet, the main airflow through the atty extracts fresh prime vape from the coil and brings it out the driptip, most of the dead space that is not in the higher velocity air stream is what I am labeling as stagnant, it's largely and for the most part stagnant, although some will always wind up being mixed back into the slipstream, exactly how much is what determines the overall vape and flavor. I don't mean to try and illustrate that it's really this cut and dry and that all of the airstream is like I'm showing because there are still many other areas of turbulence combined with pressures created from vapor shooting from the coil and many other factors, this is just illustrative of the main bulk of the airflow. as you can see the main bulk of the airflow leaves the stagnant pocket largely still for the most part
now here in this diagram the coil has been moved up to slightly above centerline of the inlet, now when the incoming rush of air "hits the coil" more of this airflow is deflected below the coil, this in turn adds movement and flow and turbulence through the otherwise still stagnant pocket and causes much more of this stagnant aftervapor to mix with the airflow that exits the chamber
I'm reducing some things down to there simplest form for illustration and to not try to confuse things but in doing so there will be technical inaccuracies, calling it throat hit is def one but there are many others, for example, air doesn't really come in and hit the coil, what really happens is by sucking on the driptip you are creating a vacuum and all air movement is really more just a result of pressure differentials, pressure will always equalize with the path of least resistance and this is actually what creates our airflow. this can get very deep and scientific and I really love discussing this because more eyes means more thoughts and more thoughts can help to get an even clearer picture of what is going on. not so sure this is the right thread for it but for now I'm happy to discuss it here.
I have thought of making a thread outlining all of my theories so guys can try to poke holes in it and add to it and bring it to an open discussion but I never got down to really trying to do that, I think that will be one very long first post
. Please do. I remember there was a very interesting thread related to wire temperature that was started by Gdeal. And since then I wanted to have such discussions.Thanks for the explanation. You draw better lol!
I just sold my DNA40 and now have IPV4; 300-350 degrees works well for me. Spider silk by Envy is what I am currently using, which is surgical grade 1 titanium wire. VapingwithTwisted420 has been using it in his reviews on temperature controlled devices. Anyway, I think Envy is US company and I got my spider silk on ebay. Hope this helps. Good luck.
jes aal !
I botched this one ..was ansering quigs thread and could not cut and paste the pix. so it works with photo bucket.
was saying that all the talk about attys and air intakes ...flavor ..I think the air intake should be from the top and then directed to where ever needed with ss tubing ..my reasoning was all the leaking problems . this one I tried in building a genesis a long time ago when I build attys . still have problems with leaking from taifun to all drippers I amtrying to use on the bottom feeder .
quigs was talking about the derringers ..I just thought of drilling a hole from the top and close the side air . I think the coil could be build close to the new hole . once I get an atty with no leaking I can work on the flavor. maybe even an domed insert made with mold making putty ...got some high temp and food safe to try .
the one in the pix worked nice but the base I build not so much ..to bulky . the air came from the side on top and directed down with som ss tubing .
back to my new bottom feeder..casting some parts for it have funn
I botched this one ..was ansering quigs thread and could not cut and paste the pix. so it works with photo bucket.
was saying that all the talk about attys and air intakes ...flavor ..I think the air intake should be from the top and then directed to where ever needed with ss tubing ..my reasoning was all the leaking problems . this one I tried in building a genesis a long time ago when I build attys . still have problems with leaking from taifun to all drippers I amtrying to use on the bottom feeder .
quigs was talking about the derringers ..I just thought of drilling a hole from the top and close the side air . I think the coil could be build close to the new hole . once I get an atty with no leaking I can work on the flavor. maybe even an domed insert made with mold making putty ...got some high temp and food safe to try .
the one in the pix worked nice but the base I build not so much ..to bulky . the air came from the side on top and directed down with som ss tubing .
back to my new bottom feeder..casting some parts for it have funn
captain, you're right,throat hit and harshness are 2 different things but I think the line between them is blurred for many and I think many associate throat hit with harshness, in that I think many will favor a little harshness and say that it is increasing throat hit. the harshness gives the vape a bit more bite and substance, you can "feel" it more, as a hit. that's why I'm just using the term "added throat hit", because I think many will relate to what I'm talking about in this context.
Aal, I have tried to think of good ways to illustrate my thoughts and I think I have a few good ideas for ways to illustrate some of my theories but for now here is a quick sketch, just to kind of show what I mean by "stagnant pocket"
this first diagram is a coil that's slightly below center on the air inlet, the main airflow through the atty extracts fresh prime vape from the coil and brings it out the driptip, most of the dead space that is not in the higher velocity air stream is what I am labeling as stagnant, it's largely and for the most part stagnant, although some will always wind up being mixed back into the slipstream, exactly how much is what determines the overall vape and flavor. I don't mean to try and illustrate that it's really this cut and dry and that all of the airstream is like I'm showing because there are still many other areas of turbulence combined with pressures created from vapor shooting from the coil and many other factors, this is just illustrative of the main bulk of the airflow. as you can see the main bulk of the airflow leaves the stagnant pocket largely still for the most part
now here in this diagram the coil has been moved up to slightly above centerline of the inlet, now when the incoming rush of air "hits the coil" more of this airflow is deflected below the coil, this in turn adds movement and flow and turbulence through the otherwise still stagnant pocket and causes much more of this stagnant aftervapor to mix with the airflow that exits the chamber
I'm reducing some things down to there simplest form for illustration and to not try to confuse things but in doing so there will be technical inaccuracies, calling it throat hit is def one but there are many others, for example, air doesn't really come in and hit the coil, what really happens is by sucking on the driptip you are creating a vacuum and all air movement is really more just a result of pressure differentials, pressure will always equalize with the path of least resistance and this is actually what creates our airflow. this can get very deep and scientific and I really love discussing this because more eyes means more thoughts and more thoughts can help to get an even clearer picture of what is going on. not so sure this is the right thread for it but for now I'm happy to discuss it here.
I have thought of making a thread outlining all of my theories so guys can try to poke holes in it and add to it and bring it to an open discussion but I never got down to really trying to do that, I think that will be one very long first post
Someone should drag the Kiwi over here. IIRC he is the resident computational fluid dynamics expert. I have dabbled in it for engines and still have an old version of Fluent & Gambit, but would have to relearn it.
my squonker family is growing!
any idea how to drill the 510 positive screw?? or what are their real use (besides vaping) so I could have better luck looking for them locally? I won't order from the US as it will take too long, right now the wooden one is on dripper mode
any idea how to drill the 510 positive screw?? or what are their real use (besides vaping) so I could have better luck looking for them locally? I won't order from the US as it will take too long, right now the wooden one is on dripper mode
I've seen some guys buy screws that were already drilled, ther called "vented screws" I think, not sure if you're going to find anything like that in mexico though, for tube I use 1/16"ID silicone tubing. not sure if you have a home depot there but one time I was able to find 1/16" tubing there that worked. it was orange and was supposed to be a fuel line for a chainsaw I think but it worked fine till I was able to get silicone
I'm using IV tubing and works great, the vented screw is what I'm having problems finding, as I have no idea what those are used for I can't seem to find anything here
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