Cotton yarn issue

Discussion in 'New Members Forum' started by phorumph, Oct 29, 2013.

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  1. phorumph

    phorumph Full Member

    Hello all,

    My first ever rebuild was fantastic.

    My subsequent ones have a problem: the yarn wick burns thus I get a burnt taste.

    Here's is the result after 4-5 3 second puffs. Left is the wick, right are the flavor wicks. As you can see those are burnt as well, both of them, although all are soaking wet with eliquid.

    Coil has 2.5 ohm and vaping it at my regular 7.5 W.

    cotton_yarn.jpg

    Any idea what I did right the first time and wrong all the next 3-4 rebuilds I did?
     
  2. RubyRoo

    RubyRoo Super Member ECF Veteran

    Not totally sure what's going on but I have some ideas. I think you might be using too much wicking material and you are suffocating your coil. Try using less cotton wick. Cotton expands as it saturates, so with cotton, less is usually more. Also, try boiled organic cotton balls as they have greatly improved my protank rebuilds. 1/16th drill bit with a small strand of twisted cotton ball as the inner wicking material. I use a tiny flavor wick as well on top as I'm currently rocking a teeny tiny nano coil in my protank and I don't want it to flood. Hope this helps!
     
  3. phorumph

    phorumph Full Member

    Thanks, I'll try with cotton balls tomorrow first thing.

    Another question: if I managed to burn the rubber thingy at the bottom (clear burnt rubber taste, didn't twist the legs) I should just throw away the head or can I remove the taste of the rubber by just coiling a proper twist legs coil?
     
  4. Subdivisions

    Subdivisions Super Member ECF Veteran

    You shouldn't need to twist the legs. The stock coils aren't twisted and don't use non-resistance wire and they don't burn the gasket. The coil wire actually touches the body of the atomizer and the center pin which are both low resistance. The current flows through that metal before it even gets to the coil wire. The only time I've seen the gasket get burnt is if the coil is sitting too low and really close to the gasket or there is a bad connection somewhere. You could try cutting away the burnt piece of the gasket to get rid of the flavor. Otherwise it will always taste burnt
     
  5. AttyPops

    AttyPops Yeah, I type stuff. ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    That doesn't look too burnt...looks brown not black.

    Which leg burned? The positive? Maybe double that one (but don't let it short by having wire hanging lose). You have to twist it together to get wire-to-wire connection and double the wire-width in that short run of the leg. That spreads the current for that leg for a bit until it gets to the coil. Trim the end close and well.

    IDK what device that is. Does the center pin (the positive) have a hole in it through the center of the pin? Or no?

    Also, you have to oxidize the coil to get rid of oils from your fingers too. That can leave a bad taste and a poor connection.
     
  6. phorumph

    phorumph Full Member

    Yes, I am burning the coil thoroughly. In the picture you have a PT2 coil assembly.

    The burn is not on the inner wire (that goes through the gasket and is held in place by the center pin), the burn is on the outer wire that sits between the rubber and the rest of the metal body.

    The wires I trim by applying pressure on them and twist, there's nothing that hangs around.

    Now for the update: I recoiled a fresh coil head with cotton from a cotton ball. While there is nothing burning, I don't get any flavor as well and everything is very very airy, vapor production decreased as well. The coil is around 2.6 ohms and I am firing it at the max of my device (5V), so I guess I need to go much lower if I want the cotton to work (28 GA and 30 GA Kanthal are on the way to me, all I have is 32 GA right now).
     
  7. AttyPops

    AttyPops Yeah, I type stuff. ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    OK. Now we talk gauge.

    The heaver the ga (lower #) the less resistance and also the more watts it takes to heat it to vaping temps.

    So it's not uncommon for people using 28 ga wire to wind a coil that takes 30 watts to heat. That's why most of the SLR stuff uses mechs...most APV's with circuitry can't put out the watts.

    Now, as to flavor, it's a general rule that lower voltage/watts = more flavor on a particular coil. To a point. Too low, and it won't vaporize well. Higher wattage on the same coil usually reduces flavor a bit but vaporizes juice faster.

    I guess I'm surprised it's the ground side. Hmmm. What devices are we talking about here?

    As to the wick....re-do the cotton. It should be touching the coil, but not too squished. It's harder than it sounds for some reason. I suck at cotton wicks. But they work if I fiddle with it a few times. Messy. :/ I've had them too loose and they didn't touch enough coil to vaporize the juice well. Too tight and they restrict juice flow.

    If you just crank the voltage rather than solving the wicking issue you WILL get burnt gaskets and probably burnt cotton too. It's the vaporization of the juice that cools the coil. So if that isn't working well all sorts of stuff can burn.
     
  8. phorumph

    phorumph Full Member

    The device is an eVic. I also have an eGo Twist but never used it, I just bought it for backup.

    Later edit:
    Here, i disassembled it now, I guess I am in the category of too little wick. That should explain poor falvor and poor vapor production.

    cotton.jpg
     
  9. Jonathan Tittle

    Jonathan Tittle Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    When it comes to cotton, less is generally more. If you feel a good amount of resistance when trying to remove the cotton from the coil, you're using too much. It shouldn't fall out of the coil when you tilt it sideways, but it shouldn't feel as if you're about to pull the coil from the head when removed either.

    When I rebuild I aim for 1.5-1.6 ohms max and coils are built on a 1/16" allen key or drill bit using 32 Gauge Kanthal - for micro-coils I step that up to 28-29. At that resistance, 10w works beautifully and I never have an issue with wicks burning. The flavor and throat hit is great and all around, it's pretty much perfect. That's for me, of course, and your experience may differ. It took me a while and a little experimenting to get it where I wanted it.

    That being said, at 2.5 ohms, 7.5w seems a bit low. You're slowing heating up the coil and when it does get hot enough to vape, you've already hit it with a varying level of heat + the heat generated during your 3 second puff. That's one of the reasons I stepped down from higher resistance coils, simply because of the time it takes to heat them up. Even an extra 1-2 seconds adds heat and at the 1.5-1.6 ohm range at 10w, there's no delay.

    Again, this is my experience. I would think with the eVic, yours would be somewhat similar.
     
  10. Taylor7617

    Taylor7617 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Wow, I've gotta say your don't look burnt at all compared to what my cotton looks like when I go to remove it. Guess I'm burning the hell out of mine but it isn't affecting flavor (usually more noticable on darker or sweeter juices). I'm using a 1/16 drill bit, microcoil (10 wraps) of 30ga Kanthal right at 2 ohms. I use 100% organic cotton yarn (4-strand). I break this down and use 3 strands inside the coil and 2 small single strands as flavor wicks. Most of my juice is either 60pg so it's on the thinner side vs say a 100vg juice. Wondering if I should try 2 strands inside the coil? Hmmmm... Sad part is I've read others using all 4 inside same size coil I'm making..now that seems tight. I do twist the end of the cotton just enough to get a point, then gently pull it through and when I do there is just a minimal amount of touching (not tight, but does touch) so I "assume" I'm using right amount. Looks like it might be time to test 2-strand.
     
  11. phorumph

    phorumph Full Member

    By strand do you mean one of those little strings that form the big string?

    Mine has 10 strands, you are saying I should put less than the whole thing? My drill bit is like 1.5-1.6 mm in diameter.

    Here's the yarn and the drill bit for comparison.

    yarn.jpg

    Later edit: I want to make this yarn method work since I am a fan of consistency. The cotton balls might vary between wicks. Just changed the wick with a thicker cotton from cotton ball and now it works properly, flavor, vapor, all good. Previous one was too small apparently.
     
  12. Jonathan Tittle

    Jonathan Tittle Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    If you're using the Peaches & Cream Yarn, you can use 3/4, either or. It's actually small enough to fit through a 1/16" coil/micro-coil without any issues. Any tighter and it'd probably burn up, but the stuff I have requires very little effort to pull a fresh cut piece.
     
  13. Taylor7617

    Taylor7617 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    I'm actually using Sugar & Cream only b/c I find it didn't mute the flavor quite as much as Peaches & Cream. Cosmetically, they look the same thickness and both contain 4 strands.
     
  14. Jonathan Tittle

    Jonathan Tittle Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    My first thought, based on the picture above, is that the strands are way too thin to really absorb any moderate level of juice. The Peaches & Cream or Sugar & Cream yarn would work much better as they consist of 4 strands and they puff up really well. That said, cotton balls do tend to work better overall from my experience.
     
  15. Acespeeed

    Acespeeed Full Member

    I would like to try this, I built a few micro coils using organic cotton as the wick and the Peaches & Cream as the flavor wick (2 short strands) and have some issues with no flavor, possibly too much cotton as someone suggested. Are you happy with the P&C yarn as the main wick and do you also use it as the flavor wick too ? I really love the micro coils, so much easier than wrapping around the ekowool but getting the cotton in just right is a bit of a challenge for me.
     
  16. TastyKakes

    TastyKakes Super Member ECF Veteran

    I've been wrapping 1/16 id micro coils and using a piece of peaches & creme cotton yarn with one strand removed. I can fit all 4 strands through the coil, but have found that using only 3 works much better for me (most of my juices are 50/50 or 100% vg). Haven't had to use "flavor" wicks in a while unless I'm strapped for time and have to throw a stock silica coil in one of my tanks - in which case ill pop the chimney off the coil head, remove the 2 silica "flavor" wicks, and replace with one strand of cotton.
    YMMV, but this has worked quite consistently for me.
     
  17. Acespeeed

    Acespeeed Full Member

    Thanks for the help, i just tried one but still having a heck of a time getting those strands through, i'll need a little more practice. i'm using 50/50 too I think I will try a few without the flavor wick. Any tips on getting the strands through the micro coil or is it just my fat fingers holding me back ?
     
  18. Jonathan Tittle

    Jonathan Tittle Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Take a piece of yarn about 1-2 inches long, wet your finger tips and twist one side as tight as you can possibly get it. This should make a tightly twisted end piece in the yarn which you can slide or twist through just enough to pull the rest of the yarn through the coil. As long as you get it through the other end, you can even use tweezers to pull the cotton through.

    Once you have it through, clip that piece off and trim the other side down. You can water, e-juice/liquid, or just use your tongue - you'll be cutting that piece off anyway.

    edit: With cotton and when using 50/50, 60/40, 70/30 etc, you shouldn't need the flavor wicks. I only use cotton through the coil and that's it. I've even went as low as 40/60 PG/VG and never had an issue.
     
  19. phorumph

    phorumph Full Member

    Is it the same as this one? Sugar 'n Cream Yarn - Big Ball Solids | Hulu
     
  20. Jonathan Tittle

    Jonathan Tittle Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    That, or this one:

    Yarns - Solids | Peaches And Creme

    You'd want #1005 (White) which is the last one at the bottom of the page. Just depends on what you have at your local stores. Walmart carries the one above. I've not seen Sugar 'n Cream locally where I am, but both work as long as it's 100% Cotton.
     
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