Dow chemical refusing to supply Propylene Glycol to e-cigarette industry

[AndriaD]

Just remember folks, in regards to this information as well as the pending FDA developments.

Where there is a will there is ALWAYS a way.......even if that way has to take creative liberties with the truth.

Just like the FDA, WHO, and the CDC! The new sport: creative lying for fun, fascism, and profit!

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

Uh, thought the FDA approved PG for inhalers and they are sold by what drug company? Do know that QuickMist has PG and VG in them as well as flavoring. Not FDA approved here but sold in England and Canada.

Don't know about others, but my Ventolin is made by GSK. Funny thing, they've been supporting my inhaler habit for free for about 5 yrs now, due to low income and no insurance. They're one of the ones agitating for the FDA to "crack down on those vapers!" If I keep vaping and not smoking, there may come a point where I either don't need inhalers anymore, or I need them so little, I could pay for my own.

Andria

 

[aikanae1]

Wouldn't that be sweet - no more inhaler? I suppose if that day comes, you'll be excited to tell them why too. Hee-hee-he.


This is one of those things that I think calls for an FOIA request because I wouldn't be surprised if this is mentioned in some emails. Doing a private FOIA request is not difficult it's just that they fill them years later if there isn't a threat of legal action and that usually takes an organization.

 

[AndriaD]

Wouldn't that be sweet - no more inhaler? I suppose if that day comes, you'll be excited to tell them why too. Hee-hee-he.

It would be sweet! But to be honest, I'm really not sure that I could ever afford to be without an inhaler -- they call 'em rescue inhalers for a reason, and even an asymptomatic asthmatic still has the potential for an asthma attack at any time -- sometimes just from laughing, and almost always from crying. Stress. Anything foreign in the air. Considering modern air, that's pretty much *all* air! So even if I didn't need to huff on it 8 times a day, I'd still need to have it. Really it amazes me that I managed to continue smoking for 30 yrs even after the asthma diagnosis.

Andria

 

[Mowgli]

IF the FDA outlaws the making of ejuice by home users (DIY) or small, unlicensed vendors... THEN it might be more of an issue.

Better an Outlaw with vaping friends than a pallbearer or wormfood. It'll never be an issue for us.

"It is not desirable to cultivate a respect for the law, so much as for the right." HDT - Civil Disobedience 1848

 

[AndriaD]

Better an Outlaw with vaping friends than a pallbearer or wormfood. It'll never be an issue for us.


"It is not desirable to cultivate a respect for the law, so much as for the right." HDT - Civil Disobedience 1848

My hero, and one of the wisest books ever written.

Andria

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

I wouldn't even be remotely concerned about Dow or any other USA PG manufacturer.

Just because they don't support vaping community doesn't mean that they're gonna stop producing PG.

You'll still be able to buy it at places like Essentials Depot and never even give it a second thought.

 

[StefanDidak]

You'll still be able to buy it at places like Essentials Depot and never even give it a second thought.

Not so useful (or cost effective) if you're dealing with 55 gallon drums or larger orders. Which is generally more the kind of order placed at the manufacturers that have recently been avoiding sales based on our particular purpose.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

Not so useful (or cost effective) if you're dealing with 55 gallon drums or larger orders.

You're describing the inherent VENDOR or juice manufacturer problem.

So they'll have to pay a little bit more by using a distributor, not a big deal.

DIY'ers won't be affected.

 

[DC2]

You're describing the inherent VENDOR or juice manufacturer problem.

DIY'ers won't be affected.

So all is good then?

 

[Rickajho]

This doesn't bode well, at all:

[tweet]497303470232195072[/tweet]

Why? They stopped supplying to the tobacco industry in 1995, long before e-cigs even came into play. It's not as if they were ever supplying the e-cig industry to begin with and suddenly reversed policy. Ditto for P&G.

 

[Shekinahsgroom]

So all is good then?

If you look closely at Dow's published literature that member aubergine posted, you'll see some interesting details.

Dow's Statements

• PG USP/EP is the product grade approved for food, pharmaceutical,
beverage, animal feed (except cat food) and cosmetic applications.


A list of non-supported or non-recommended applications for these Dow products
has been developed, primarily based on:

Dow policy on specific applications, such as use in tobacco or medical
devices.


That would rule out a ton of pharmaceuticals, which you can see is a contradiction of their own terms since their PG is classified for use in pharmaceuticals.

But here's their key statement....."Dow will not sample these products in specific applications, will not knowingly sell these products for use in specific applications...."

So a vendor or supplier could just create a shell company (d.b.a.) and by-pass all of it.

 

[StefanDidak]

You're describing the inherent VENDOR or juice manufacturer problem.

You sound surprised. It was exactly that from the start. I don't know what gave you the impression it was not. If I did, sorry.

 

[StefanDidak]

So a vendor or supplier could just create a shell company (d.b.a.) and by-pass all of it.

We had one other manufacturer (not Dow) who did not have a published policy and followed the same process of questioning and denying a sale. Same day they were fine selling a few drums when told it was for use in outdoor fog machines. But, it appears Dow didn't use to care much and has recently started to ask questions so they are clearly increasing the enforcement of their policies.

 

[stevegmu]

As usual, much ado about nothing...

 

[TamiP]

Better an Outlaw with vaping friends than a pallbearer or wormfood. It'll never be an issue for us.

"It is not desirable to cultivate a respect for the law, so much as for the right." HDT - Civil Disobedience 1848

ROTF... so true. Nice collection there.

 

[TamiP]

Not so useful (or cost effective) if you're dealing with 55 gallon drums or larger orders. Which is generally more the kind of order placed at the manufacturers that have recently been avoiding sales based on our particular purpose.

Even if the FDA doesn't get its way with this legislation, the way some big companies like DOW and Paypal are acting, I'm thinking that a lot of vendors are going to have to be more creative with their company names, or they'll have difficulties getting supplies or customers will have difficulties actually making purchases. No more vape/ecig/smoke etc in the names.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Dow Customer Information Group...dCig...

Who's fooling who here?

 

[StefanDidak]

Dow Customer Information Group...dCig...

Who's fooling who here?

They refer to it themselves as "dowcig". Dow Customer Information Group

 

[Oliver]

The reason I flagged this up in the OP was to raise the supply chain issue.

Does anyone have any idea how much PG is produced nationally, how easy it is to produce (it's refined from petroleum products), what the alternative supply chains are capable of producing? Whether VG supplies take take up any slack?

I've spoken with a manufacturer who believes this policy was enacted around 6 months ago, but feels that this is them pushing harder. Apologies if I've caused undue concern, but there are fault lines in the supply chain, and it's worth discussing them openly.