E-Cigarette Forum Discussion Thread
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Well, some of the articles I've seen with propylene glycol in the headline contained results from studies involving ethylene glycol.
So maybe it's one of those things about the apple not falling far from the tree, or concerns that growing up in the glycol family could mean that in any minute, propylene could start causing people to have kidney trouble too.
So maybe it's one of those things about the apple not falling far from the tree, or concerns that growing up in the glycol family could mean that in any minute, propylene could start causing people to have kidney trouble too.
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I hope so too, I could be wrong, but I think my old one did have it, but I can't remember its name. I apologize for that, but when you're in the Big Brown Bag shelf at the CVS, and the insurance company changes which ones it will pay for every time a deal with a mega-corp falls through, you really can't keep up with all of them, its all I can do to take them at the right time.
And I think now I will go and watch Trasy Reality Shows with Mr lolady, thank you all for putting up with my being mean as a skunk all night!
Just popping in to say... So it seems they have a new strategy, and we will be busy fighting "fires" for a while. 
Good thing they have all this free time to post this nonsense in between helping all those people they are chasing away... er... um... helping quit smoking.
Good thing they have all this free time to post this nonsense in between helping all those people they are chasing away... er... um... helping quit smoking.
My hair gel, shaving cream, and body wash all contain PG. I don't see it listed as an ingredient on my asthma medications that I use with my nebulizer (had to dig them out because I haven't had to use them since switching to e-cigs ). Too lazy at the moment to go into the other room and check my Advair inhaler.
). Too lazy at the moment to go into the other room and check my Advair inhaler.
RE fire hazard...
- According to Lighthound they sell far more AW, IME, Trustfire, Ultrafire, etc. batteries into the lighting market than they do into e-cig mods. And anecdotal readings over at lighting mod forums (yes, there seems to be quite a hobby there), shows they have a lot more things bursting into flames and exploding than we ever have had.
- ClayK can talk to the hobby front.
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RE PG safety...
The safety of PG may be overstated but it's not a general unknown. When I was deep-digging on the topic I found a few things that pointed me toward "occupational" safety concerns with PG. Those included smoke machines to theaters and clubs, various painting tools for the industrial sector, large-scale humidors in use in the cigar, opal, and fragrance industries, and hospital uses tied to IVs and ventilation machines.
In all cases where I could find reports of potential issues they were cleared up within hours of cessation. In the only studies on PG toxicity the exposure and doses directly to blood or through airways were over periods of three to four days of ~continuous~ exposure. And the relief was simply a matter of a day away.
It's hard to say if we take in more than some of those use cases. My first inclination was "of course" we do, then I read about the fragrance industry controls and it's not a temporary exposure. They're in these rooms for full work days, day after day, w/ environmental controls that use PG. No respirators here (unlike say industrial paint tools). Club applications and employees that are exposed to it (strangely it appears that the former Soviet block uses these religiously 24/7) don't seem to be effected regularly enough to have it reported.
So I'm not entirely comfortable but it's certainly safer than the analogs that also contain PG in some cases along w/ the rest of the mess. -Magnus
- According to Lighthound they sell far more AW, IME, Trustfire, Ultrafire, etc. batteries into the lighting market than they do into e-cig mods. And anecdotal readings over at lighting mod forums (yes, there seems to be quite a hobby there), shows they have a lot more things bursting into flames and exploding than we ever have had.
- ClayK can talk to the hobby front.
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RE PG safety...
The safety of PG may be overstated but it's not a general unknown. When I was deep-digging on the topic I found a few things that pointed me toward "occupational" safety concerns with PG. Those included smoke machines to theaters and clubs, various painting tools for the industrial sector, large-scale humidors in use in the cigar, opal, and fragrance industries, and hospital uses tied to IVs and ventilation machines.
In all cases where I could find reports of potential issues they were cleared up within hours of cessation. In the only studies on PG toxicity the exposure and doses directly to blood or through airways were over periods of three to four days of ~continuous~ exposure. And the relief was simply a matter of a day away.
It's hard to say if we take in more than some of those use cases. My first inclination was "of course" we do, then I read about the fragrance industry controls and it's not a temporary exposure. They're in these rooms for full work days, day after day, w/ environmental controls that use PG. No respirators here (unlike say industrial paint tools). Club applications and employees that are exposed to it (strangely it appears that the former Soviet block uses these religiously 24/7) don't seem to be effected regularly enough to have it reported.
So I'm not entirely comfortable but it's certainly safer than the analogs that also contain PG in some cases along w/ the rest of the mess. -Magnus
It funny (or, again, pathetic) that Electricman takes the time to find every negative post he can over here, yet blantantly ignores all the positive ones of those who have sucessively quit smoking using e-cigs.
I hope so too, I could be wrong, but I think my old one did have it, but I can't remember its name. I apologize for that, but when you're in the Big Brown Bag shelf at the CVS, and the insurance company changes which ones it will pay for every time a deal with a mega-corp falls through, you really can't keep up with all of them, its all I can do to take them at the right time.
And I think now I will go and watch Trasy Reality Shows with Mr lolady, thank you all for putting up with my being mean as a skunk all night!
No one can expect anyone to remember all of the inactive ingredients in the various medications they are taking.
I vape a 70/30 PG/VG blend. I'm not terribly worried about PG myself.
That being said, some people have real concerns about the safety of inhaling certain "chemicals". To try to alleviate said concerns someone might say, "Don't worry. It's in asthma inhalers!" If it isn't true, at the least we're doing a disservice to new and would be vapers. At worse, it destroys credibility. I've spent a lot of time searching the internet myself and can't find an asthma inhaler that contains it. It's not in the two that I use myself either.
I wasn't trying to start an argument. I was just curious.
The albuterol inhalers available OTC through most of EU use PG still. I have one from Rzeszów, Poland right here from December of last year. The use faded significantly a few years ago IIRC due to a newer efficient method. I think simultaneously a rumor started that PG was still the preferred "more gentle" approach but when I traced the origins of those papers I found mostly smoke-and-mirrors. Which isn't to sat it's harsher, I just couldn't find actual peer reviewed papers suggesting it was more gentle. -Magnus
EDIT: This one is called Asthalin BTW..
EDIT: This one is called Asthalin BTW..
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Thank you, Magnus. Now if only you had a link to the ingredients of that inhaler.
They sell albuterol OTC in Europe? I have an albuterol prescription, but I found epinephrine to be far more effective in managing my asthma. Of course, if my wife would get rid of the cats that would mean I'd be rid of the allergy and asthma meds. Fat chance of that happening though.
Thank you, Magnus. Now if only you had a link to the ingredients of that inhaler.
It's really only in Poland and Czech it's OTC, and even then you're talking to by a Pharmacist so you can't just take it yourself. Like behind-the-counter here I guess.
It says ipratropium bromide, salbutamol sulfate, propylene glycol.. The pharma site says the PG in the solution and syrup. Not the inhaler.
My Ventolin just says hydrofluoroalkane. The nebulizer version lists various solutions to mix it in and also references Formulations and nebulizer performance. [Respir Care. 2002] - PubMed result ..
And the inhaler that the VC cites, but isn't used anymore, w/ PG is talked about Preclinical safety evaluation of inhaled cyclospor... [J Aerosol Med. 2007] - PubMed result and Mary Ann Liebert, Inc. - Journal of Aerosol Medicine - 20(4):417 ..
The only US references I can find w/ PG are all nebulizer solutions like Asthmanefrin Nebulizer Solution Facts and Comparisons at Drugs.com. And Proventil (Proventil Drug Information, Professional)...
-Magnus
EDIT: http://www.pharmagateway.net/SearchAdvanced.aspx?q=hydrofluoroalkane ..
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While this proves nothing there are a lot of MDI patents, including for albuterol, that include PG in them....
One being... Metered dose inhaler for albuterol - US Patent 6131566 Abstract...
In terms of actual ingredients lists at the pharmacies, drugs.com, getpharma, etc. the only time I see PG is in the tablets and solutions. The solutions while used in respirators and nebulizers aren't the same as inhalers. And when looking for 2008 and earlier information in the CFC era, that doesn't seem to change.
The only time I see PG in actual inhalers in published works are in medical studies, some lung cancer treatments, one failed asthma treatment, and in circular references to something dating back to the 50s but all that points me to is Patent applications which, along w/ PG, include many tens of "possible" ingredients. And while I do find the FDA safety information on it being used, that doesn't mean for inhalers per se... that could be just the respirators and nebulizers.
*shrug* So I either inhaled actual PG as they stuffed this with the syrup version or it's just bad Indian manufacturing/labelling practices. From Advair to anything else I have in my shelves, I can't find another PG reference. -Magnus
One being... Metered dose inhaler for albuterol - US Patent 6131566 Abstract...
In terms of actual ingredients lists at the pharmacies, drugs.com, getpharma, etc. the only time I see PG is in the tablets and solutions. The solutions while used in respirators and nebulizers aren't the same as inhalers. And when looking for 2008 and earlier information in the CFC era, that doesn't seem to change.
The only time I see PG in actual inhalers in published works are in medical studies, some lung cancer treatments, one failed asthma treatment, and in circular references to something dating back to the 50s but all that points me to is Patent applications which, along w/ PG, include many tens of "possible" ingredients. And while I do find the FDA safety information on it being used, that doesn't mean for inhalers per se... that could be just the respirators and nebulizers.
*shrug* So I either inhaled actual PG as they stuffed this with the syrup version or it's just bad Indian manufacturing/labelling practices. From Advair to anything else I have in my shelves, I can't find another PG reference. -Magnus
I started looking at various inhalers when I started vaping. Couldn't find, so researched a bit more, look for it listed under various trade names, (http://www.leylainanir.com/viya/pdf/2en.pdf) and such, then you'll start finding it everywhere.
Halsey
ETA looks like the topic was well covered before I answered
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So basically most people are exposed to PG via food and cosmetics and there aren't many cases where it is being inhaled. Gotcha!
Thanks for confirming my suspicions.
Thanks for confirming my suspicions.
And cleaning supplies. None of which, except for Johnny Jackass, people make a habit of inhaling. -Magnus
I find it curious that the two occupations that seem to get the most inhaled PG exposure in daily life are clubs and hospitals. That's about as full-scale opposite as it comes. -Magnus
You know what's effed up?
The only thing I'm thinking about now is using a 10/90 smoke machine at Vapestock next year w/ nicquid in it too. So next time people break out into dance they won't be waving around those Gods blasted WEAPONS of mods. -Magnus
The only thing I'm thinking about now is using a 10/90 smoke machine at Vapestock next year w/ nicquid in it too. So next time people break out into dance they won't be waving around those Gods blasted WEAPONS of mods. -Magnus
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