I'm glad menthols and mints are our favorite flavors. Not that there is any certainty, but they aren't on any lists I've seen so far.
Flavors that may contain Diacetyl, are there really this many?
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vaping unflavored is still, imo, much, much healthier than smoking cigs. For the time being, I'll keep a tank of unflavored on hand at all times and keep my flavor experiments going. I'm not sure how some are reading this thread and thinking that somehow cigs and healthier than vaping all of a sudden. Did we forget the obvious health transformation that took place when we quit cigs? I haven't, and I won't. To each their own I guess, but I would advise those who are willing to jump back to cigs to slow down and relax a little. Grab some unflavored, have a vape, and think things over.
Dekang provides them. I've emailed vendors who took a look at them because I'm allergic to aspartame. A sheet was provided for each juice individually.
Wizard labs, Nude Nic, ECigXpress, etc. There's a ton of vendors out there.
I think the reason for concern and thoughts of switching back is.. People who smoke cigs may or may not die from smoking related illness in their lifetime... People who vape this chemical will die from vaping in their lifetime. I don't know if this is true, but that is the fear. People are getting popcorn lung just from inhaling the airborne chemical. We are sucking it directly into our lungs. I would say our exposure must be way higher than the documented cases we have read about. Especially those who chain-vape all day or participate in sub ohm. I switched to vaping in hopes that I can increase my lifespan while still enjoying nicotine... This "we all die someday" attitude is contradictory to the general consensus of why we all switched to vaping in the first place. We all die someday, but we are trying to extend that death date aren't we? This thread should be at the front of this website in big warning letters until someone is able to get to the bottom of this. Instead it will disappear into the threads and thousands of eager new vapors will be starting a hobby that just may unfortunately prove to be deadlier than smoking.
An important thing to remember is that in almost every report I read yesterday, the word RARE was used when describing Popcorn Lung. That's an important word, one that shouldn't minimize the fact that this needs researched, but should also not be ignored in favor of panic.
It's rare because up until recently, other than the obscure 'popcorn factory workers' and a random popcorn addict who loved it so much he ate 2 bags a day for 10 years... How many other people are realistically exposed to diacetyl at a high level daily? And then there's us.
I'm not.promoting panic, however this should be something all vapers know going in, before they commit themselves to this hobby. There should definitely be more exposure on these forums so people can make an informed decision. I'm switching to unflavored until there is some amount of regulation/accountability. If people want to take the risk, that's their prerogative but I feel like either way the truth should be out there for all to know so they have the option of choice! And not shrouded under some kind of false sense of safety.
And unfortunately it's not just the Diacetyl we have to worry about. it's all the Alpha-Diketones which are known to be just as toxic to inhale. There's Acetoin which will catalyze right back into Diacetyl. This doesn't even begin to access all the the other potentially harmful chemicals that could make up a flavor as simple as "strawberry". Nobodies out there squeezing fresh strawberries & blueberries into a bottle to make these flavors. As others have said, It's all chemicals. And that would be been fine if these were used as intended, but instead we're inhaling them daily. I'm sure that cannot be without long term consequences.
We all quit smoking to make positive changes and to change our health for the better -- I'm young and quit for my future. I didn't successfully quit & switch to vaping so I had to worry about my lung not functioning by the time I'm 30. If vaping flavors means there's even a 1% chance of that happening, I'm happy to switch to unflavored/or menthol & move on with my life.
Who knows, maybe in a couple years there will regulation and this will all be a thing of the past, & I truly hope so because I love this hobby. I love the community, the variety, the flavors - all of it!
But I think we should also remember that at one point we started vaping not as a hobby but as a smoking cessation aid.. And for most of us, it did just that which is obviously awesome.
In my opinion all of the delicious flavors was simply icing on the cake (sorry bad pun), so maybe we got a little spoiled. But at it's core it was the oral fixation, the vapor, the throat hit & of course the nicotine that helped us quit for good. I think many of us could have quit smoking with unflavored or a light menthol/mint blend... While still being SAFE and worry free about all the unknowns out there. Isn't that why we started vaping in the first place?
I'm not.promoting panic, however this should be something all vapers know going in, before they commit themselves to this hobby. There should definitely be more exposure on these forums so people can make an informed decision. I'm switching to unflavored until there is some amount of regulation/accountability. If people want to take the risk, that's their prerogative but I feel like either way the truth should be out there for all to know so they have the option of choice! And not shrouded under some kind of false sense of safety.
And unfortunately it's not just the Diacetyl we have to worry about. it's all the Alpha-Diketones which are known to be just as toxic to inhale. There's Acetoin which will catalyze right back into Diacetyl. This doesn't even begin to access all the the other potentially harmful chemicals that could make up a flavor as simple as "strawberry". Nobodies out there squeezing fresh strawberries & blueberries into a bottle to make these flavors. As others have said, It's all chemicals. And that would be been fine if these were used as intended, but instead we're inhaling them daily. I'm sure that cannot be without long term consequences.
We all quit smoking to make positive changes and to change our health for the better -- I'm young and quit for my future. I didn't successfully quit & switch to vaping so I had to worry about my lung not functioning by the time I'm 30. If vaping flavors means there's even a 1% chance of that happening, I'm happy to switch to unflavored/or menthol & move on with my life.
Who knows, maybe in a couple years there will regulation and this will all be a thing of the past, & I truly hope so because I love this hobby. I love the community, the variety, the flavors - all of it!
But I think we should also remember that at one point we started vaping not as a hobby but as a smoking cessation aid.. And for most of us, it did just that which is obviously awesome.
In my opinion all of the delicious flavors was simply icing on the cake (sorry bad pun), so maybe we got a little spoiled. But at it's core it was the oral fixation, the vapor, the throat hit & of course the nicotine that helped us quit for good. I think many of us could have quit smoking with unflavored or a light menthol/mint blend... While still being SAFE and worry free about all the unknowns out there. Isn't that why we started vaping in the first place?
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... If it's supposed to be in all these flavors (most of them it's looking like) then wouldn't it be in things other than popcorn? and wouldn't those things be processed in plants somewhere for some reason? And wouldn't the processing of these things in certain ways create vapor that would be inhaled? would it not be dangerous in these as it is supposed to be in popcorn? Why no boysenberry lung or milk lung, or butterscotch lung? Probably a stupid question... but I still asked it.
Reading "Health Effects" at the osha link in the OP:
"In addition to lung disease, exposed workers have also experienced irritation of the eyes, nose, and throat (2, 4, 7, 8, and 42). For example, in a 2007 investigation of a flavoring manufacturing plant NIOSH found "approximately half of the current production and office workers and all current laboratory and warehouse workers reported having experienced nasal irritation. Approximately half of current office workers and warehouse workers and approximately 80% of current production and laboratory workers reported experiencing eye irritation. Skin problems were most common in current production workers (36%), especially in workers who mostly made liquid flavorings (60%)" (7). "
Highlighting and underlining are mine.
I've been at this over a year and half, vaping and DIYn (meaning handling flavorings as well as chain vaping them daily) and have never experienced eye irritation or skin problems. I have had nose irritation but only dryness from vaping. I think those concerned might want to read everything at that link. I've also used every flavoring on the list and my ADV is tobacco with nut flavors.
Edit: BTW, I don't think tobacco flavors can be ruled out of all this. Who knows what goes into making them and I don't mean tobacco flavorings with other flavors in them. I sure don't know how they come up with them and doubt they would be recognized on a list applying to the food industry.
"In addition to lung disease, exposed workers have also experienced irritation of the eyes, nose, and throat (2, 4, 7, 8, and 42). For example, in a 2007 investigation of a flavoring manufacturing plant NIOSH found "approximately half of the current production and office workers and all current laboratory and warehouse workers reported having experienced nasal irritation. Approximately half of current office workers and warehouse workers and approximately 80% of current production and laboratory workers reported experiencing eye irritation. Skin problems were most common in current production workers (36%), especially in workers who mostly made liquid flavorings (60%)" (7). "
Highlighting and underlining are mine.
I've been at this over a year and half, vaping and DIYn (meaning handling flavorings as well as chain vaping them daily) and have never experienced eye irritation or skin problems. I have had nose irritation but only dryness from vaping. I think those concerned might want to read everything at that link. I've also used every flavoring on the list and my ADV is tobacco with nut flavors.
Edit: BTW, I don't think tobacco flavors can be ruled out of all this. Who knows what goes into making them and I don't mean tobacco flavorings with other flavors in them. I sure don't know how they come up with them and doubt they would be recognized on a list applying to the food industry.
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I'm pretty sure the guy with the popcorn cravings was a freak occurrence. Otherwise we'd have movie theater employees and other families that enjoy popcorn daily all over the place reporting the same thing God we popped microwave popcorn daily for years way before this came up. We still eat a pretty decent amount in my house. I do all the cooking, which meansI'm also melting butter on the stove and breathing in the fumes, we all inhale particles of everything we eat and drink, and apparently Diacetyl is in most of that too.
Am I worried? Yes. Am I going to start making sure my flavors don't have this stuff? Yes. Have I adjusted my vaping technique? yep!
I have always only inhaled to the back and sometimes base of my throat. Now I'm stopping short of that. Just to the area behind my tongue. Since we don't need to inhale into the lungs to absorb nic.
And I'll be watching the board for information. And asking my vapeshop about their flavors.
Am I worried? Yes. Am I going to start making sure my flavors don't have this stuff? Yes. Have I adjusted my vaping technique? yep!
I have always only inhaled to the back and sometimes base of my throat. Now I'm stopping short of that. Just to the area behind my tongue. Since we don't need to inhale into the lungs to absorb nic.
And I'll be watching the board for information. And asking my vapeshop about their flavors.
Absolutely! I can taste it (or the substitutes) in several very popular flavorings from the biggest organic flavoring manufacturer I know. I really hesitate to name anything specifically, because I don't have any chemical analysis to back up my statement - but there is no missing the distinctive flavor.
I was recently at TFA's website to check my flavorings for ingredients I don't want to vape, and I found a few flavors I've been using do have a trace of custard notes - yet I didn't detect it at all. I sure appreciate their full disclosure! Now I have a few more flavorings to use only in my (actual) coffee, and I feel safe vaping their others. I avoid diacetyl and the substitutes, artificial color, vitamin E, quinine...Most of what I'll still vape comes from TFA and FlavourArt.
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I'm about to start trying to make my own among all of this. But now I need to know where to start, who to buy from etc. I can cook, and follow a recipe. Stands to reason I could make juice right?
You can smell Diacetyl just from the Vapour in the room?
Hey, this is gonna sound really weird but, uhm, could you come to mine in the UK and smell my eLiquid?
:/
EDIT: On a serious note, this thread worries me. I think that, as Vapers, we are mostly naive to believe that we're completely safe in the long-term. I've encountered problems with Vaping already - such as a very tight chest and wheezing. Hey, I thought: it might be an allergy to PG. So I tried 100% VG and I've had the problem with both 100% PG and the full VG blends. Never had something similar with smoking but hey-ho!
There's always an element of fear with the unknown - we know that in the short term there's not much to worry about. In the long term however, we just don't and CAN'T know yet. We are not sure what could or couldn't be. We may be opening ourselves to long-term complications and that's the depressing thought.
BUT here are my current options: 1. I leave Vaping behind and go back to cigarettes, which I know for certain are harmful and full of carcinogens. With a family history of lung and stomach cancer, that is not an attractive decision. 2: I stay Vaping - I smell better, I function more efficiently, my teeth are 3x whiter and for now it's looking to be a lot less harmful and in fact: mostly harmless. All I have to do is look for harmful chemicals
I think I know which option I'd rather take.
Currently I'm eagerly awaiting the results of Dr Farsalinos' latest study on over 100 worldwide eLiquids and the contents of the Vapour they produce. Hopefully there will be some more optimistic information from that research, as most of his research so far has been looking very positive.
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Even though I DIY, I have not been able to clone my ADV so still buy that premixed. I was all but certain my premix was "safe" as far as diacetyl goes having thoroughly researched my vendor co-owned by two people in the medical field... one working in and for respiratory therapy and the other in addiction treatment. However, having had the crap scared out of me reading this thread, I contacted them again explaining how this diacetyl thing has raised its ugly head aaaagain. They answered me quickly saying "You can be assured none of our juices contain diacetyl." That's the best I can do other than the other measures I've taken since starting to vape. I know my limits on VG and don't use too much VG as it causes me congestion/mucous. Any way its looked at, mucous is never a good thing. I don't inhale into my lungs anymore except for the occasional slip which I dislike now and I cut even my ADV by more than 50% which decreases flavoring as I don't need that much and find I have my limits on it too... too much and I get bronchial mucous. I do this because it only comes 50/50 and I can't tolerate that much VG. I also add DW up to 30% but usually around 10%. As for all the DIY flavoring I've bought... in the hundreds of dollars... most will go in a sealed box in a spare fridge until I can further research each and every one. I did when I bought them but just want to be as safe as possible at this point. I will continue to use my ADV premixeds that I'm trusting my vendor's word on and just make my own peach and menthol for now. I am happy with my newly found health... especially my lungs... and am not going to jump all fours on the panic/fear train that could send me right back to smoking. I still consider vaping safer.
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That would be an "All Day Vape." Don't worry, won't take you long to learn all of them.
Thanks! I don't have one of those yet. My tongue gets bored with flavors so I'm frequently switching.
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