Flavors that may contain Diacetyl, are there really this many?
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Very, very, frankly I'm suspicious. Wouldn't it be shorter and easier to just do a list if flavorings with no possibility of diacetyl's presence? This list pretty well says... DON'T vape! In other words... and again very frankly... it seems to be a bit fear mongering.
Basically, there are thousands and thousands of chemicals used in the flavoring industry. They all have names that you and I can't recognize, spell, or pronounce. Every flavor manufacturer puts these chemicals together in a specific way in specific amounts to create their flavorings, and this is why FlavorWest blueberry is very different from TFA blueberry.
If I'm reading correctly, that list is very accurate, as there is a list below it that cites flavoring chemicals which inherently contain diacetyl. Any flavor (blueberry, graham cracker, tobacco, cream) could contain any of the diacetyl-containing flavoring chemicals. If I feel that exposulare-1AX98 gives my blueberry flavor concentrate a smooth finish and diminishes it's bitter nature a little bit, than I'll throw it in... but it contains diacetyl. This is fine because it's meant to be swallowed, not inhaled.
As vapers, we need a flavoring company to step fourth and become completely vaping-based. This would require extensive research into flavoring agents and their respiratory effects, and thus, I think it'd be a task most suitable for a flavoring company that already exists and is quite experienced. Something along the lines of "TIA - The Inhalation Apprentice" as a side-shoot to TFA. I dunno, but I do know that I've noticed a more enjoyable vape all around when vaping just pure VG-distilled water flavorless nic. Basically when I'm not trying out a new recipe that I've let steep for a week or two, I'm pretty much always vaping flavorless.
Here is a company that is completely vaping-based. Feel free to contact Marcelina for questions.
Flavours 10 ml - - Inawera Shop, The Best E-Liquids, Flavours, Bases And Many More!
Here is a company that is completely vaping-based. Feel free to contact Marcelina for questions.
Hey Jimi! I've already placed an order with these guys due to your guys' raving reviews
Just gotta wait the good wait and then you'll be seeing me asking around in the inawera thread.
Looking forward in seeing ya soon AheadatimeHey Jimi! I've already placed an order with these guys due to your guys' raving reviews
This thread is very discouraging.. Makes me nervous to vape and sad that I almost feel like I need to throw everything in the trash. It sounds like vaping may be just as harmful if not more so than analogs. "so don't vape anything with Diacetyl!" Well... what doesn't have it then? We need a comprehensive list of safe liquids. I used the DIY guide sticky to select my first liquids to start mixing with last week and I thought I was careful not to get anything that was harmful, then I stumble across this thread. I have Teaberry, banana cream, cheesecake (NY), Pralines & Cream and Keoke coffee (all from loran) steeping right now. Are these safe?
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That is definitely scary. I feel like I should have known it was too good to be true. I did run across a juicr shop weeks ago in my vaping journeys that claims to be free of diacetyl Rocket Fuel Vapes, that's something I guess. Much like smoking I don't inhale into my lungs, just my throat and then back out. I hope there's some good news out there somewhere.
Edit: Also apparently Halo has diacetyl free juices
Edit: Also apparently Halo has diacetyl free juices
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It is still extremely difficult to understand when excigexpress, as one example, gives a warning saying a flavoring contains diacetyl on that flavor's ordering page. Any normal, half way intelligent, person would take that to mean those not carrying that warning don't contain it. So are the vendors making "our flavorings don't contain diacetyl" blanket statements on their sites opening themselves to lawsuits for fraudulent statements? So are we all to be scared to death of not only incompetence but downright fraud now? Or, in a perfect world, just not vape? When does the crap ever end? Vaping plain VG is fine for some but it give me terrible problems... been there, done that, not going back. I'm fine with PG but the fear mongers would have others believe its dangerous even though its used in hospital ventilation.... I know, a vaper gets more.... terrible and dangerous to their health. I want to see stats on vapers who've suffered harmed or deteriorated health from vaping. Its been the opposite for me. There are plenty of long-time vapers here at ECF to simply answer a poll on that. I want to know how many are in any stage of pop-corn lung as a result of vaping. In the meantime, given an option, I'll take vaping over the dreadful damage smoking does.
Edit: Having just scanned the thread again.... please, please, please don't make a rash decision and throw your vape equipment away and, for god's sake, don't return to smoking. You can go to youtube and see blown up faces but.... the fear of many of us as noobs... what have you learned about that? Step back, take a deep breath... because you can now... and chill out to put this all in some perspective.
Edit: Having just scanned the thread again.... please, please, please don't make a rash decision and throw your vape equipment away and, for god's sake, don't return to smoking. You can go to youtube and see blown up faces but.... the fear of many of us as noobs... what have you learned about that? Step back, take a deep breath... because you can now... and chill out to put this all in some perspective.
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I think folks are confusing the word "may" with "does".
FA and TPA/TFA were at the forefront of getting the "d-word" out of their flavorings. Example
Capella's is now stepping up and testing to make sure their diacetyl free flavorings are truly diacetyl free.
The report is for the entire flavoring industry. From beer makers to bread makers and it's huge. We should feel pretty good that some suppliers are helping us out instead of ignoring vaping.
That said, flavorings are the biggest unknown with regards to vaping. I'll never say any flavoring is "safe". So if you absolutely require "safe" there is unflavored or smoking, or better yet, breathing in nothing but clean air. There is a whole sub-set of folks on the DIY sub that are unflavored vapers and they seem like nice, sane, folks. I've never seen any sign of them being nearly as crazy as me.
FA and TPA/TFA were at the forefront of getting the "d-word" out of their flavorings. Example
Capella's is now stepping up and testing to make sure their diacetyl free flavorings are truly diacetyl free.
The report is for the entire flavoring industry. From beer makers to bread makers and it's huge. We should feel pretty good that some suppliers are helping us out instead of ignoring vaping.
That said, flavorings are the biggest unknown with regards to vaping. I'll never say any flavoring is "safe". So if you absolutely require "safe" there is unflavored or smoking, or better yet, breathing in nothing but clean air. There is a whole sub-set of folks on the DIY sub that are unflavored vapers and they seem like nice, sane, folks. I've never seen any sign of them being nearly as crazy as me.
I've been toying with the notion of attempting DIY but reading the beginners guide even just made me doubt my ability to do it. the measurement system alone confused me to death I'm used to exact numbers in recipes. But would THAT even be a viable way to avoid this? I don't know. The fact is we don't know every single ingredients chemical makeup, or the reactions when its mixed and heated.
the damage from cigarettes is cumulative too though, to be a bit morbid here. We as ex smokers could still get screwed by that habit down the road right? And we won't know whether it was years of tobacco or our time vaping, or the pollution in the air, our jobs ventilation....
the damage from cigarettes is cumulative too though, to be a bit morbid here. We as ex smokers could still get screwed by that habit down the road right? And we won't know whether it was years of tobacco or our time vaping, or the pollution in the air, our jobs ventilation....
Yes, there are things being done. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater quite yet! I've asked Marcelina at Inawera Shop if any of their flavoring contained diacetyl and she said no. Tactical (now a real name that I can't remember lol) is in touch with the owner of Capella and he is aware and on this. He said he'd some back with results of more convos. Flavour Art is on it. Dr. Farsalinos is doing a study of about 150 ready made e-liquids. What he is testing for, I don't know, but I'd imagine diacetyl would be one thing.
As far as I'm concerned DIY is the safest thing for me. I know what's in my liquids (as much as I can anyway).
As far as I'm concerned DIY is the safest thing for me. I know what's in my liquids (as much as I can anyway).
Yeah. Almost seams as if vaping is just as detrimental to your health as smoking. I only smoked about 3-5 cigarettes a day and I vape here and there through out the day. This thread makes me want to go back to smoking. I'm actually serious too. I don't know what to do now.
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http://www.cbsnews.com/news/can-microwaved-popcorn-ruin-your-lungs/
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The important thing to remember I think, is that not ALL people exposed to this stuff have suffered from this, just like not all smokers get cancer, all asbestos workers, etc etc. It's going to depend, like anything else on your body. The stories say a couple hundred cases, and that does sound high. BUT how many thousands of people have worked with this in the air for years and NOT suffered from any ill effects? There's no way to know, and the media isn't going to tell us. Not when the big thing these days is to cut all risk of anything from everything ever.
Yes, we should be concerned, and be more careful of our supplies. But as glasseye said, there's awareness now, and progress coming. My first instinct was sadness, and disappointment, but there's hope. And I'll hang on to that for now and be careful in the future with what I'm vaping.
Yes, we should be concerned, and be more careful of our supplies. But as glasseye said, there's awareness now, and progress coming. My first instinct was sadness, and disappointment, but there's hope. And I'll hang on to that for now and be careful in the future with what I'm vaping.
I have a lot of juice that probably contains this stuff though. Lol don't know what to do with it now.
I don't want to spend more money on different juice now.
This thread is depressing.
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I don't want to spend more money on different juice now.
This thread is depressing.
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I think that the only thing that anyone can do, is due diligence. It's better to know then to not know, and prior to this I had been avoiding diacetyl for the most part, but have to admit that I did not think that there were other flavors that should be avoided other then the "cream type" ones and even then looked for the diacetyl free "cream type".
I do agree with those that dilute their flavoring to the lowest possible levels or vape no flavor at all. I think that low flavor, is the direction that I am going to head, might take me a while as I will taper down as to not be tempted to go back to analogs. It makes me think of the times I have purchased pre-mixed juice with extra flavor shots.
This is why for me this site is so important, I can't get this information from the smoke shop I bought my first Ego from. At least you can make an informed decision about what you use, based on the most current information available to us. I would imagine that no one is going to come out with a list and say these are "safe to vape", that is just not going to happen at least not anytime soon.
I do agree with those that dilute their flavoring to the lowest possible levels or vape no flavor at all. I think that low flavor, is the direction that I am going to head, might take me a while as I will taper down as to not be tempted to go back to analogs. It makes me think of the times I have purchased pre-mixed juice with extra flavor shots.
This is why for me this site is so important, I can't get this information from the smoke shop I bought my first Ego from. At least you can make an informed decision about what you use, based on the most current information available to us. I would imagine that no one is going to come out with a list and say these are "safe to vape", that is just not going to happen at least not anytime soon.
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I think the next step is for vendors is to provide msds sheets. Every product should have one of these sheets. I have only seen MSDS/SDS provided by companies such as Hangsen and Johnson Creek. This would be the next step for clarity and safety in the vaping community.
An example of msds sheet ....http://ergoliquid.com/1.pdf
An example of msds sheet ....http://ergoliquid.com/1.pdf
Well this thread just ruined my night a bit. Time to do more research.
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