Need advice on flavor adjustment

[LarryPer]

Thanks in advance

1- When mixing flavors that may need adjustments is it better to start out high like 10% and add pg/vg Or is it best to go light like 4% and go up?

2-Will one of the two require less or more steep time?

3-I use a syringe and beakers to measure but I see some recipes call for very precise measurement like 6.5 % ..What are they use to measure so precisely?

Thanks Larry

 

[Train2]

First, I'd say definitely easier to add flavor - start "light".
And give it a couple days of vaping - your taste buds may adjust to find that lighter flavoring seems "rich" enough later on...

Second - percentage-based is the "standard" for a recipe, so that you can mix 10 mls, or mix 60 mls, and get the same end result.

I highly recommend you use a calculator. This will convert percentages to mls for you - but more importantly, will do the sometimes tricky math of changing a flavor % but keeping the same PG/VG ratio, or nic strength...

I use ejuicemeup, which is a PC-installed program (lets you save-as, which is handy, and includes built-in recipes you could try). But there are apps and online calculators as well...

 

[Maestro]

I agree. A juice calculator is absolutely essential. And if you want to simplify things, toss the beakers and syringes and get a $25 scale. You can just add your liquids directly into your bottle by weight, taring off the scale between each ingredient. Cap it and shake. Easy, accurate and no cleanup.

 

[IDJoel]

1- When mixing flavors that may need adjustments is it better to start out high like 10% and add pg/vg Or is it best to go light like 4% and go up?

I am of the "Start low and work your way up" school. Flavors, when used to excess, can actually become muted. If you don't know where this threshold is (for you) you can overshoot and add all the flavor you want and it will not be pleasing. Diluting also can be more difficult to accurately calculate for replication.

2-Will one of the two require less or more steep time?

Aging ("steeping") requirements are affected by ingredients (tobaccos, custards, chocolates, etc. require longer times), volumes (the larger the batch-size; the more aging can required), and personal preference.

Whenever I am working with new/unfamiliar ingredients; I always start with small "test" batches and taste frequently (immediately after mixing and then every couple of days) until I learn whether it is a shake-and-vape, few-day/short-term rest, or multi-week rest ingredient/recipe.

3-I use a syringe and beakers to measure but I see some recipes call for very precise measurement like 6.5 % ..What are they use to measure so precisely?

As @Train2 suggests; the use of a recipe calculator is invaluable to know what that "6.5%" really means based on the volume you are trying to mix. As for syringes; a typical medical-grade 1milliliter syringe (like a diabetic syringe) will be graduated (the markings) in 0.01 (1/100th) mL increments. That is plenty precise enough for most recipes. Larger syringes will not be as precise. When using syringes I always tried not to use a larger syringe than necessary.

The other common method of measuring is tomeasure by weight and use a scale that has sufficient capacity (500 gram tends to be the most popular), and is scaled to read to 0.01 (1/100th) grams. This will give you adequate precision. @Capt.shay has a great introductory thread on mixing by weight here:
Mixing By Weight: Basics 101
Both are perfectly fine for DIY and both have their fans. Several moths ago I switched from syringes to a scale because I had a hard time seeing those tiny little marks on syringes. I found the digital read-out much easier to see. But again; either is just fine.

 

[LarryPer]

I am of the "Start low and work your way up" school. Flavors, when used to excess, can actually become muted. If you don't know where this threshold is (for you) you can overshoot and add all the flavor you want and it will not be pleasing. Diluting also can be more difficult to accurately calculate for replication.

Aging ("steeping") requirements are affected by ingredients (tobaccos, custards, chocolates, etc. require longer times), volumes (the larger the batch-size; the more aging can required), and personal preference.

Whenever I am working with new/unfamiliar ingredients; I always start with small "test" batches and taste frequently (immediately after mixing and then every couple of days) until I learn whether it is a shake-and-vape, few-day/short-term rest, or multi-week rest ingredient/recipe.

As @Train2 suggests; the use of a recipe calculator is invaluable to know what that "6.5%" really means based on the volume you are trying to mix. As for syringes; a typical medical-grade 1milliliter syringe (like a diabetic syringe) will be graduated (the markings) in 0.01 (1/100th) mL increments. That is plenty precise enough for most recipes. Larger syringes will not be as precise. When using syringes I always tried not to use a larger syringe than necessary.

The other common method of measuring is tomeasure by weight and use a scale that has sufficient capacity (500 gram tends to be the most popular), and is scaled to read to 0.01 (1/100th) grams. This will give you adequate precision. @Capt.shay has a great introductory thread on mixing by weight here:
Mixing By Weight: Basics 101
Both are perfectly fine for DIY and both have their fans. Several moths ago I switched from syringes to a scale because I had a hard time seeing those tiny little marks on syringes. I found the digital read-out much easier to see. But again; either is just fine.

Very helpful Thanks

 

[dannyv45]

I recommend to start 1 or 2 percent below the minimum recommended flavor amount and work up. Taste the mix right away and if it's good vape it. If not and you determine the mix needs steeping, steep it the full recommended amount of time and taste it again. If flavor is still not where you want it then make flavor adjustments usually in 1% increments or less.
Being that you already steeped the full amount of time the first time, seed steeping takes over which is usually 1/10th of the original steeping time. So if the original steep time was 3 weeks then steep your adjustments 2 - 3 days more then taste, if further adjustments are necessary adjust and steep 2-3 more days. repeat this cycle as many times as necessary until you reached your desired taste.

 

[BrotherBob]

Thanks in advance
1- When mixing flavors that may need adjustments is it better to start out high like 10% and add pg/vg Or is it best to go light like 4% and go up?
2-Will one of the two require less or more steep time?
3-I use a syringe and beakers to measure but I see some recipes call for very precise measurement like 6.5 % ..What are they use to measure so precisely?
Thanks Larry

Might like to read:
diy_beginners_guide - DIY_eJuice
dannyv45's blog | E-Cigarette Forum
Hoosier's blog | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[JCinFLA]

@LarryPer - You're not the only one who uses syringes and measures by volume. Many of us prefer that method, and make great eliquid, too! There is no 1 right, better, faster, more accurate, etc. method that everyone should or must use for measuring when DIY. It's just a matter of personal opinion and what works best/is a more comfortable method...for each individual.

If you like using a few syringes and a beaker, and are happy with it...that's fine! If you decide you want to try mixing directly into the bottle, you can do that, too. Just shoot your measured liquids into the bottle instead of into the beaker first. I made all my eliquids that way for awhile, 'cause I found that also worked for me. Then, fairly recently I came up with a way of measuring and mixing...where I only measure my flavorings and the Nic Base. The plain PG and VG are each just poured/shot into the bottle to designated levels. That's yet another way that works for me personally.

So, as you go along with DIY, you may keep/use your same measuring methods, or change them slightly, or change them alot. That's part of the beauty of DIY. There are a variety of ways to end up with great DIY eliquid!

 

[IDJoel]

@LarryPer - You're not the only one who uses syringes and measures by volume. Many of us prefer that method, and make great eliquid, too! There is no 1 right, better, faster, more accurate, etc. method that everyone should or must use for measuring when DIY. It's just a matter of personal opinion and what works best/is a more comfortable method...for each individual.

If you like using a few syringes and a beaker, and are happy with it...that's fine! If you decide you want to try mixing directly into the bottle, you can do that, too. Just shoot your measured liquids into the bottle instead of into the beaker first. I made all my eliquids that way for awhile, 'cause I found that also worked for me. Then, fairly recently I came up with a way of measuring and mixing...where I only measure my flavorings and the Nic Base. The plain PG and VG are each just poured/shot into the bottle to designated levels. That's yet another way that works for me personally.

So, as you go along with DIY, you may keep/use your same measuring methods, or change them slightly, or change them alot. That's part of the beauty of DIY. There are a variety of ways to end up with great DIY eliquid!

Beautifully said JC!

 

[mcclintock]

Depends on your taste and usage. For small clearos I might mix 10% total flavoring but that's not even good at higher output. I've been leaning towards light flavoring more like 2%.

That's for the usual CAP, TFA, FW; for FA, INW it's more like 1-2% and Super Concentrates 1% max., 0.5% typ..

 

[Capt.shay]

@LarryPer - You're not the only one who uses syringes and measures by volume. Many of us prefer that method, and make great eliquid, too! There is no 1 right, better, faster, more accurate, etc. method that everyone should or must use for measuring when DIY. It's just a matter of personal opinion and what works best/is a more comfortable method...for each individual.

If you like using a few syringes and a beaker, and are happy with it...that's fine! If you decide you want to try mixing directly into the bottle, you can do that, too. Just shoot your measured liquids into the bottle instead of into the beaker first. I made all my eliquids that way for awhile, 'cause I found that also worked for me. Then, fairly recently I came up with a way of measuring and mixing...where I only measure my flavorings and the Nic Base. The plain PG and VG are each just poured/shot into the bottle to designated levels. That's yet another way that works for me personally.

So, as you go along with DIY, you may keep/use your same measuring methods, or change them slightly, or change them alot. That's part of the beauty of DIY. There are a variety of ways to end up with great DIY eliquid!

I agree with every thing said above except that measuring by weight is faster, cleaner and easier.

 

[zoiDman]

...

1- When mixing flavors that may need adjustments is it better to start out high like 10% and add pg/vg Or is it best to go light like 4% and go up?

...

Why not do Both?

For a New Flavor workup, some people will mix Multiple bottles at Increasing Flavoring Levels.

Maybe...

15ml @ 5% Flavoring
15ml @ 7.5% Flavoring
15ml @ 10% Flavoring
15ml @ 12.5% Flavoring

If you are going to go with just 1 Flavoring Level, I would Always go "lite" on the Flavoring. And then add Flavoring to make it Stronger.

 

[JCinFLA]

I agree with every thing said above except that measuring by weight is faster, cleaner and easier.

See, from MPOV...that's perfectly OK that you have that opinion, which is based on your own personal DIY experience. I have a different opinion that's based on my own experience, too, and that's also OK. You're happy with the eliquids you make by weight, and I am with mine, too, that I make by volume. It seems like a win-win to me!

 

[LarryPer]

Thanks for all the great info on scales
Any one have recommendations? (low priced but good)

 

[ceeceeisme]

Thanks for all the great info on scales
Any one have recommendations? (low priced but good)

https://www.amazon.com/American-Wei...e=UTF8&qid=1481414075&sr=8-2&keywords=aws-100

Measures to 2 decimal places - arrives calibrated (I checked with a weight set) and with batteries installed - is cheap and works a charm! Also guaranteed for 10 years - a bonus to be sure. Since I got mine I've been mixing like a maniac

 

[Adam harris]

As others have said..GET A DIGITAL SCALE! It makes mixing so much easier and enjoyable...plus it's faster,less mess,convenient,no cleaning required.


As for your first question...start low and work your way up. Don't go past 20% for a single flavor.

Usually the steeping time depends on what your mixing and not necessarily the amount of flavor used.

Oh yea did I mention GET A DIGITAL SCALE?

 

[Maestro]

https://www.amazon.com/American-Wei...e=UTF8&qid=1481414075&sr=8-2&keywords=aws-100

Measures to 2 decimal places - arrives calibrated (I checked with a weight set) and with batteries installed - is cheap and works a charm! Also guaranteed for 10 years - a bonus to be sure. Since I got mine I've been mixing like a maniac

Warning: that scale has a 100gram max. Make sure it suits your needs. It should be fine for a 30 ml bottle, but I don't know if you can go much higher. My 30 ml bottles weight around 40 grams. Add 30 - 40 grams of ingredients and you're approaching the limit. I doubt you could use that scale for a 50ml batch.

 

[ceeceeisme]

I have 30ml and 60ml glass bottles and it works great for both. I don't mix any batches over 60ml so this suits my needs perfectly. The scale tares out to zero then starts measuring in milligrams. As long as you are not mixing over 100 mg of liquid and as long as your bottle doesn't weigh over 100mg, it will work fine.

It's a good starter scale for a home mixer and the price is right. If I want more than 60ml I can always make up 2 bottles separately.

One can also opt for the more expensive AWS LB-501 which has a 500 gram capacity. Amazon in the US has it on sale right now for $24.99 (which is a pretty good price IMO). In Canada I see it's on sale for $41.66 (when I bought my AWS-100 Amazon had the LB-501 listed for $71 so the smaller scale was a no-brainer for me as I paid $13 for it).

 

[Capt.shay]

I would suggest going with the larger scale as well. I have the LB-501 and it works well (except for the auto shut off when plugged in). You should only have to buy one scale ever so don't skimp out here.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005UGBG20?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

 

[ceeceeisme]

Agreed... if I had the choice between the larger scale at $24.99 or the smaller one at $9.99 I would definitely go for the big one.

I would in fact buy one right now except I would have to have it shipped into Buffalo NY then smuggle it back to Canada ... lol... too much like trouble.