New Shipping Regs. for 60mg & Above Nic Base & Flammable Flavorings

[JCinFLA]

Just got an interesting email from NicotineRiver about new shipping regulations by the DOT and FAA. They are for Nicotine Base that's 60mg-250mg and some flavorings from TFA and CAP that are now considered flammable.

"Here are some quick updates and explanations to current and future changes at Nicotine River. Our goal is to stay as complaint as possible while doing the best we can to serve our loyal clients. We have been notified by the DOT (Department of Transportation) and the FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) of the following changes."

1. "Liquid nicotine with strengths of 60mg - 250mg are considered a Class 6.1 Toxic - Packing Group lll and have to be shipped exclusively as Hazmat by the DOT (Department of Transportation). These items CANNOT be shipped through USPS or Fedex under any circumstances and with no exceptions. These strengths are not allowed to be shipped express or overnight, and UPS GROUND is the only option."

2. "It has been brought to our attention that a tremendous amount of the flavors by the Flavor Apprentice and Capella that we resell are considered flammable in the eyes of the DOT and the FAA. Similar to the higher strengths of liquid nicotine, these flammable flavors are not allowed to be shipped express or overnight, and UPS GROUND is the only option."

They also explain the following...about ordering any of the above along with other things that are not any of the above, in the SAME order:

"You will need to plan your orders ahead as we are unable to expedite services any longer. Also, be aware that by adding one “Hazmat” tagged item to your cart means the only offered shipping method will be UPS Ground. If there are no Hazmat tagged items in your cart then it is business as usual and all normal shipping rates will show."

"There are no additional Hazmat Fees in addition to UPS Ground Charge."

"We are considering eliminating these flavors all together to save us from these troubles - please kindly respond with your thoughts!"

They also included this link, to the TFA and CAP flavorings that are the "flammable ones":

Flammable Flavors

*****************************************************

There was no information in their email, that says when these changes take effect. Thought everyone might want to know what's coming. If the new regs. don't take effect immediately...you might want to stock up while you can, on some of those flavorings and/or more Nic Base that will be affected.

 

[Jdurand]

Just for grins I held a lighter to a drop of 100mg/ml nic. Has anyone been able to get this to ignite even with exposure to an open flame? I sure can't!

 

[DaveP]

I can live with USPS ground for my nic purchases. I'm hoping not to need any more for the next 10 to 15 years. My 2 liters should last at least that long.

I guess there's no way to guarantee total ground ship for UPS and FED EX. It can no longer be shipped by air from what I'm reading.

 

[DaveP]

Just for grins I held a lighter to a drop of 100mg/ml nic. Has anyone been able to get this to ignite even with exposure to an open flame? I sure can't!

They must be looking at nicotine contamination of an airplane with the nic. TFA and Capella must have some ethyl alcohol components that are flammable. Either could be HAZMAT territory.

 

[JCinFLA]

TFA and Capella must have some ethyl alcohol components that are flammable. Either could be HAZMAT territory.

Yep! I checked many of those that I have, that are on the Flammable Flavors list linked above...and they've all got EA in them.

 

[DaveP]

Yep! I checked many of those that I have, that are on the Flammable Flavors list linked above...and they've all got EA in them.

Maybe that's the cause of the strange undertaste I sense from my TFA tobacco flavors. I was thinking it was a clove component or something. I used to sense the same thing from some vendor flavors. I never left the cap off to see if evaporation would fix it.

 

[JCinFLA]

@DaveP - The EA in flavorings gives me an immediate bad headache at the back base of my head. So I let any/all eliquids that have any EA containing flavorings in it...evaporate with the tip and cap off for at least 2 days for a 10-13mL bottle and longer for a bigger bottle. I've found that shaking the heck out of it several times a day also helps speed it up a great deal.

I don't let the EA evaporate off the flavorings before I even add them though, as I thought about doing. Several have said doing that would possibly affect how that flavoring blended with other flavorings somehow, or would otherwise affect the eliquid as a whole.

 

[sofarsogood]

I searched for a government document or government web page that reflects the above and find nothing relating to nicotine. If a rule relating to concentrated nic was going to take effect in the foreseeable future wouldn't there be something authored by government at this point? All I'm finding is restrictions on what passengers can carry on a flight which has been in place for a while.

 

[JCinFLA]

Did you check the DOT for info. relating to "Class 6.1 Toxic - Packing Group lll" mentioned in their email? Or the FAA's own website about what can be sent as cargo on planes? Just wondering if it can be found there?

After I posted initially, I called both Nicotine River and Wizard Labs, to ask for more info. on the above. I wanted to know specifically, when those regulations would take effect.

The guy I spoke with at Nicotine River said they're already in place, and are to be followed now, otherwise there can be a huge fine for not doing so. He went on to say they, NicotineRiver, had been fined $74,000 by the FAA for not following them! Said there's NO way they'll not strictly adhere to them after that! I assume that's true, because the following was also in their email, but I didn't post it as part of my initial post:

"THESE CHANGES ARE NOT OUR CHOICE. THESE ARE THE LAWS AND THE PENALTIES AND FINES ARE SEVERE FOR NOT FOLLOWING THE ABOVE SHIPPING GUIDELINES.

IF THERE ARE OTHER VENDORS THAT RESELL THESE FLAVORS OR CARRYING THESE NICOTINE STRENGTHS AND HAVE NOT MADE THESE CHANGES YET - THEY WILL SOON, OR GET HEAVILY FINED - TRUST US."

I was told that the lady I would need to talk to about the regs. at Wizard Labs, was in a meeting, and she'll call me back tomorrow.

 

[ceeceeisme]

Just for grins I held a lighter to a drop of 100mg/ml nic. Has anyone been able to get this to ignite even with exposure to an open flame? I sure can't!

Nicotine in any strength will not be flammable but it is classified as a poison and is actually used a pesticide for agricultural applications. It's just the flavorings that have flammable properties, and then only some of them, not all.

 

[JCinFLA]

Just checked my emails again, and another email came from Grant Boatman, owner of NR. He said:

"Based off everyone's feedback the list of TFA and CAP flavors that are now labeled as Flammable will not be deleted."

*******************

So, if you order any of those from them, the only way they can be shipped will be by UPS Ground.

 

[sofarsogood]

Did you check the DOT for info. relating to "Class 6.1 Toxic - Packing Group lll" mentioned in their email? Or the FAA's own website about what can be sent as cargo on planes? Just wondering if it can be found there?

After I posted initially, I called both Nicotine River and Wizard Labs, to ask for more info. on the above. I wanted to know specifically, when those regulations would take effect.

The guy I spoke with at Nicotine River said they're already in place, and are to be followed now, otherwise there can be a huge fine for not doing so. He went on to say they, NicotineRiver, had been fined $74,000 by the FAA for not following them! Said there's NO way they'll not strictly adhere to them after that! I assume that's true, because the following was also in their email, but I didn't post it as part of my initial post:

"THESE CHANGES ARE NOT OUR CHOICE. THESE ARE THE LAWS AND THE PENALTIES AND FINES ARE SEVERE FOR NOT FOLLOWING THE ABOVE SHIPPING GUIDELINES.

IF THERE ARE OTHER VENDORS THAT RESELL THESE FLAVORS OR CARRYING THESE NICOTINE STRENGTHS AND HAVE NOT MADE THESE CHANGES YET - THEY WILL SOON, OR GET HEAVILY FINED - TRUST US."

I was told that the lady I would need to talk to about the regs. at Wizard Labs, was in a meeting, and she'll call me back tomorrow.

I searched on your language plus the word nicotine and found no .gov page about this. So a company got fined $74,000 by the FDA for selling vape products and it didn't make the news? That's another surprise. How do the people who sell these products learn about new rules? These days it has to be online by a government source. So where is it?

 

[b.m.]

Just checked my emails again, and another email came from Grant Boatman, owner of NR. He said:

"Based off everyone's feedback the list of TFA and CAP flavors that are now labeled as Flammable will not be deleted."

*******************

So, if you order any of those from them, the only way they can be shipped will be by UPS Ground.

Tfa listed several of their flavors as only being able to be shipped like that a while back,i think they did it maybe 2-3 months ago.

 

[JCinFLA]

So a company got fined $74,000 by the FDA for selling vape products and it didn't make the news? That's another surprise.

No, not fined by the FDA...by the FAA! And not for selling vape products, but for sending 60mg+ Nicotine Base and/or Flammable flavorings in a way that didn't follow the regulations.

AS a side note - My brother worked for the FAA for 35+ years. There have been huge fines doled out to companies for years...that haven't made the news. I don't see how/why this instance would.

 

[sofarsogood]

No, not fined by the FDA...by the FAA! And not for selling vape products, but for sending 60mg+ Nicotine Base and/or Flammable flavorings in a way that didn't follow the regulations.

AS a side note - My brother worked for the FAA for 35+ years. There have been huge fines doled out to companies for years...that haven't made the news. I don't see how/why this instance would.

Stand corrected. It would still be interesting to read the rule at the source. Ground shipping is no big deal if that's as far as it goes. I would have thought this rule has been in force for a while. Nic concentrate has been shipping here and there for years. I got a bottle of nic last summer via USPS from a different vendor. Was this rule in force back then? I wonder how shippers learn about rule changes if this is a recent change?

 

[JCinFLA]

Tfa listed several of their flavors as only being able to be shipped like that a while back,i think they did it maybe 2-3 months ago.

I do remember a member, who lives in Hawaii, has posted about the TFA Honeydew. He said wherever he buys his flavorings from...notified him that they would no longer be carrying Honeydew in its original form, and would only be selling Honeydew II because of the expense of shipping it with the new regs. That was a couple of weeks ago maybe...on the TFA thread I think?

 

[b.m.]

I do remember a member, who lives in Hawaii, has posted about the TFA Honeydew. He said wherever he buys his flavorings from...notified him that they would no longer be carrying Honeydew in its original form, and would only be selling Honeydew II because of the expense of shipping it with the new regs. That was a couple of weeks ago maybe...on the TFA thread I think?

Yeah,i remember that post.I had forgotten about Tfa making the changes on their site until he mentioned that.I noticed it on their site a few months back though,i forget what the symbol is,but all of them that are considered flammable have a little symbol in the description now.

 

[JCinFLA]

Ground shipping is no big deal if that's as far as it goes. I would have thought this rule has been in force for a while. Nic concentrate has been shipping here and there for years.

I think NR just emailed customers about it, since the cost by UPS Ground is going to add considerably more to the normal S/H cost they've had in the past.

As far as how long the rule has been in force...I don't know, nor do I know where to find the info. The words "new shipping regulations" in my initial post were mine, not NR's. I assumed (with what the rest of the email said), that they must be new ones. But, apparently, they may have just been new to NR's knowledge...until they were notified and fined by the FAA for not following them! Or, they knew before, like many other companies who also still ship 60mg+ Nic Base and Flammable flavorings by USPS and FedEx! I don't know which it is.

 

[dobroeutro]

I imagine the answers you're looking for are here: The Hazardous Materials Regulations - Department of Transportation I just skimmed it but didn't bother to read the whole .pdf

 

[mcclintock]

The word "Hazmat" may be used improperly. UPS Hazmat adds a handling fee of at least 27.50 . The next lower hazard grade is usually USPS 3rd class ground (which usually travels longer distances in FedEx cargo planes, no passengers). But there are many categories and I'm amazed how little I could find out rapidly or at least digest. I'm thinking these things UPS doesn't think are dangerous but FAA does, so as long as you keep them on the ground you're alright.

(EDIT: it is Hazmat but not true Hazmat shipping it appears.)