New to forum. Just quit smoking and looking for insight on e-cig safety/recommendations

[DJJonnyT]

Hello people, im new to the forum and decided to join in order to gain some insight. Im looking into e cigs a lot as ive quit smoking but still yearn for something to toke on nights out (3 - 4 times a month).

A good friend of mine is strongly against the e-cigs and has sent me a Scott Johnson podcast with a PDF attached saying how bad these e-cigs are. A study is included in this also and i was wondering your views on that too. I personally from what ive read etc dont see them being as harmful as smoking, and know people who use them as a smoking cessation and claim their health has greatly improved.

My primary concern is lack of regulation meaning the amount of metals and unknown chemicals etc are unknown from brand to brand. If i was to proceed in vaping i would like more info on which brand are the safest, contain the least amount of toxic metals and also which brands contain no diacetyl. I understand vapes are supposed to contain only 4 ingredients and i do not disagree with that.

Any info would be greatly appreciated thanks (most natural e liquid, no diacetyl, lowest nicotine, lowest possible heating temp, most reliable product and best place to buy, no sugars included!.. type 1 diabetic here - and also a plain PG and VG solution with no flavour if possible). If i do vape i would like the safest of the safest, best of the best, lowest temperature for heating, least nicotine and the least and most natural ingredients... Surely you dig me, im a little bit of a health freak (even though i smoked for 7 years - as i am a type 1 diabetic and have been since early childhood so cant keep smoking regular cigs as itll mean my inevitable early(ier) demise, but i really could do with something like an e-cig for going out for a few drinks etc providing they arent as bad as tabs).. I just need some others views on how these studies claiming how bad they are are actually bull? and for the people who support the against studies why is that?

Heres that Podcast please take a look for yourself and let me know. Cheers much siblings of earth. Take it easy and much love. [Removed]

 

[mcclintock]

Wow. In one sense he's right that most things mentioned are things people do for enjoyment that have some risk. If you want to call that "Satan" then feel free to. He takes the typical attack that they're going after kids, while what HE'S selling is the one they have to get them young... but that's all I'll say about religion. However, a big difference is that e-cigs were always meant to reduce risk compared to a more dangerous, legal, widespread addictive product. Any appeal to the young was an afterthought.

He mentions you'd have to eat a cig to be poisoned, but just have to touch e-liquid -- actually drinking enough e-liquid to be poisoned would also be very unpleasant. As to injectable nanorobots -- really? Maybe someday, but for now, what a nut.

It would be more healthy to not vape considered in isolation to everything else but vaping is less dangerous than smoking (or spouting nonsense). Please look around here a little further and you will find plenty of information, including discussion of the shoddy attacks on vaping Johnson quotes from. Talk about a conspiracy ...

P.S. there is also a "Christian Vapers" subforum here, if that's just the way you roll.

 

[retired1]

I've removed the video as it contains subject matter that is not permitted on ECF.

The "metals" testing that have been done to date are so out of whack it's ridiculous. The tests were improperly skewed to come to an improper conclusion.

Learn About Electronic Cigarettes has a lot of good information that you can read up on to put your mind at ease.

 

[suprtrkr]

Hi and welcome to the board. I didn't watch your video, but the short answer is nobody actually knows the inhalation hazards as people haven't been vaping long enough to find out. I was a long term heavy smoker, and I feel a lot better. Similarly, my friends are amazed at how much better I look.

There appears to be variance of opinion regarding exactly how risky juices containing diketones may be; another case of insufficient data. Still, most reputable vendors of ejuice are aware their customers are concerned and are moving to accommodate the market in this regard. I don't know whom, exactly, because I make my own juice and don't buy any. DIY is obviously the way to go, if you want to know what is in your juice, and I am careful about vendors. I buy only USP food or pharma grade PG and VG, my nic juice is produced in an FDA inspected plant, and my flavor supplier notes exactly which contain diketones. They don't normally do so in consumer quantities, but they send a MSDS with bulk orders and upon request. Ejuice components, and the juices themselves, are available in organic, non-GMO and even Kosher grades, if this is important to you. Nicotine content is not a problem; just don't put any in. Anybody who is functional in a kitchen can make ejuice. Unflavored juice with no nicotine is easily made; it's nothing more than PG/VG with no additives.

Physical safety with APVs is another matter. Just as you don't give a shotgun or the car keys to a 5yo, so also does safe usage of vape gear require a certain minimum level of knowledge, competence and adulthood. In general, however, it can be done safely. Stick with a quality regulated mod, buy good batteries from a reputable vendor, don't exceed the parameters of the equipment, and about the only way you can blow that up is through operator error. Temperature control mods are now available. That is, you can set the temperature of the coil wire and the electronics will attain it and not exceed it. A certain minimum is required, of course: you have to get the juice hot enough to vaporize ot you don't get any vapor .

Regarding heavy metals, the only one you're likely to encounter is Nickel, and it is a common component in 3 of the 5 available wire types for vaping: Kanthal, NiCr and Ni200. The first two are resistance wires used in wattage mode, while the latter is a TC wire for Temp Control. The other two choices are Titanium and Stainless Steel in 304 (food) and 316 (surgical) grades; both are pure metals, unalloyed, and not generally thought of as "heavy" metals. Ti wire is for TC; Stainless can go either way.

I realize my commentary raises more questions than it answers, for which my apologies. There simply isn't any firm data to give you. Finally, AFAIK, the only way to avoid risk in life is to die.

 

[DJJonnyT]

Hi and welcome to the board. I didn't watch your video, but the short answer is nobody actually knows the inhalation hazards as people haven't been vaping long enough to find out. I was a long term heavy smoker, and I feel a lot better. Similarly, my friends are amazed at how much better I look.

There appears to be variance of opinion regarding exactly how risky juices containing diketones may be; another case of insufficient data. Still, most reputable vendors of ejuice are aware their customers are concerned and are moving to accommodate the market in this regard. I don't know whom, exactly, because I make my own juice and don't buy any. DIY is obviously the way to go, if you want to know what is in your juice, and I am careful about vendors. I buy only USP food or pharma grade PG and VG, my nic juice is produced in an FDA inspected plant, and my flavor supplier notes exactly which contain diketones. They don't normally do so in consumer quantities, but they send a MSDS with bulk orders and upon request. Ejuice components, and the juices themselves, are available in organic, non-GMO and even Kosher grades, if this is important to you. Nicotine content is not a problem; just don't put any in. Anybody who is functional in a kitchen can make ejuice. Unflavored juice with no nicotine is easily made; it's nothing more than PG/VG with no additives.

Physical safety with APVs is another matter. Just as you don't give a shotgun or the car keys to a 5yo, so also does safe usage of vape gear require a certain minimum level of knowledge, competence and adulthood. In general, however, it can be done safely. Stick with a quality regulated mod, buy good batteries from a reputable vendor, don't exceed the parameters of the equipment, and about the only way you can blow that up is through operator error. Temperature control mods are now available. That is, you can set the temperature of the coil wire and the electronics will attain it and not exceed it. A certain minimum is required, of course: you have to get the juice hot enough to vaporize ot you don't get any vapor .

Regarding heavy metals, the only one you're likely to encounter is Nickel, and it is a common component in 3 of the 5 available wire types for vaping: Kanthal, NiCr and Ni200. The first two are resistance wires used in wattage mode, while the latter is a TC wire for Temp Control. The other two choices are Titanium and Stainless Steel in 304 (food) and 316 (surgical) grades; both are pure metals, unalloyed, and not generally thought of as "heavy" metals. Ti wire is for TC; Stainless can go either way.

I realize my commentary raises more questions than it answers, for which my apologies. There simply isn't any firm data to give you. Finally, AFAIK, the only way to avoid risk in life is to die.

Thankyou all for the comments. sprtrkr cheers for the in depth response, yes its left me with more to think about but thats exactly what i was hoping to hear. i feel good in knowing there are non gmo and organic products out there, its not like you can get that with real cigs is it!! as i said im not sure on them (as no one can be) but anecdotal evidence such as from people like yourself is mounting up and swaying them in a positive direction. also im only considering using them 3 - 4 times a month just for something to toke on lightly as a treat to myself so hopefully doing it as iregularly as that cant do much harm may i ask if you experienced any negatives when starting to use them? (ive heard PG can affect people negatively - so im looking to go for 100% VG if you think thats a wise idea?) and how do you feel now compared to when you were smoking? thanks again bro.

 

[DJJonnyT]

and yeah i kinda dig that that link was dodgy when he was all on about satanic crap. thing is if someone hears something bad (especially people like my good friend - and myself to a certain degree) theyll .... themselves to the point of just avoiding it completely. a lot of the negatives seem to me to be scaremongering influenced by tobacco companies.

 

[suprtrkr]

Thankyou all for the comments. sprtrkr cheers for the in depth response, yes its left me with more to think about but thats exactly what i was hoping to hear. i feel good in knowing there are non gmo and organic products out there, its not like you can get that with real cigs is it!! as i said im not sure on them (as no one can be) but anecdotal evidence such as from people like yourself is mounting up and swaying them in a positive direction. also im only considering using them 3 - 4 times a month just for something to toke on lightly as a treat to myself so hopefully doing it as iregularly as that cant do much harm may i ask if you experienced any negatives when starting to use them? (ive heard PG can affect people negatively - so im looking to go for 100% VG if you think thats a wise idea?) and how do you feel now compared to when you were smoking? thanks again bro.

I rather doubt you'll notice much of any effects either way, vaping 3-4 evenings a month. The biggest negative I have noticed in myself and others is dehydration. PG and VG are both hygroscopic; you need to drink a lot of water-- no, more than that-- especially if, as I suspect, you will vape whilst out for a jar (or 6) as alcohol will exacerbate this condition. PG does cause an allergic reaction in some persons, but you will either be allergic, or not. As for VG... I have found it can condense in the lungs, leaving behind a phlegm you will cough up in high juice concentrations, especially when blowing cloud with subohm gear. I personally didn't find that objectionable so long as not excessive. Indeed, I am about half convinced (with absolutely zero evidence either way) it is beneficial. When I first started vaping, I would hack up some ugly, discolored fluid. But, reasoning it was coming out of my lungs, not going in, I thought it a rather good idea. Certainly vapor is much more cool and soothing on the lungs than hot, dry, acridic smoke. If this was solving deposits in my lungs so I could expell them, all the good; if not, I have noticed no ill effects. Since then I have stopped coughing up dark stuff. I have also reduced my VG ratio so I don't cough as much. Everybody's different; as you vape, your body will inform you of your preferential PG/VG ratio. How do I feel? Better. A lot better.

 

[Analias]

Howdy Human. I'm new to the board but not to vaping. As far as risks go, the British gov't commissioned a study to look at vaping. Worth a read. Her Royal Majesty's scientists said (in a nutshell) no one knows the long term effects of vaping since it hasn't been around that long but they reckon it to be 95% less harmful than traditional tobacco products.

 

[djsvapour]

A lot of the scaremongering was certainly hyped by tobacco companies.

This bought them time to
1. Buy up e-cig companies.
2. Encourage regulation and when that regulation comes, be the only products on the market.
and coming it is.... May 2016, 72 million Europeans are in jeopardy.

So - BLU (the new BLU, not the old BLU). I salute you and your evil plan. You are the kings of the e-cigarette and I am sorry for ever doubting you.
When the day comes, I will give you all the money I used to give you buying my smokes and we'll pretend all this running off for 3 years to another product ever happened.
Mark 10? Yep... I'm sorry I never smoked Marlboro but I can't wait to start puffing on your superior product.

(There is a point to this)

As somebody said the other day. If there was any chance that e-cigarettes were more than a tiny % as dangerous as smoking, then tobacco companies would not be taking over the market. They only ever got away with selling a lethal product as we didn't realise it was lethal for the first 450 years. If e-cigs can (at any point in the future) be proven to kill people then the class actions for killing people all over again, with a new product would finish them off for good, for ever.

Something like that.

 

[DJJonnyT]

I rather doubt you'll notice much of any effects either way, vaping 3-4 evenings a month. The biggest negative I have noticed in myself and others is dehydration. PG and VG are both hygroscopic; you need to drink a lot of water-- no, more than that-- especially if, as I suspect, you will vape whilst out for a jar (or 6) as alcohol will exacerbate this condition. PG does cause an allergic reaction in some persons, but you will either be allergic, or not. As for VG... I have found it can condense in the lungs, leaving behind a phlegm you will cough up in high juice concentrations, especially when blowing cloud with subohm gear. I personally didn't find that objectionable so long as not excessive. Indeed, I am about half convinced (with absolutely zero evidence either way) it is beneficial. When I first started vaping, I would hack up some ugly, discolored fluid. But, reasoning it was coming out of my lungs, not going in, I thought it a rather good idea. Certainly vapor is much more cool and soothing on the lungs than hot, dry, acridic smoke. If this was solving deposits in my lungs so I could expell them, all the good; if not, I have noticed no ill effects. Since then I have stopped coughing up dark stuff. I have also reduced my VG ratio so I don't cough as much. Everybody's different; as you vape, your body will inform you of your preferential PG/VG ratio. How do I feel? Better. A lot better.

Cheers again dude, may i ask when you stopped smoking did you switch straight on to the vape pen?? ive heard of people stating this and im just thinking it could be your lungs' natural response to stopping smoking tobacco. i have been 8 days without a smoke now and i have a little bit of phlegm and a bad throat.

 

[DorianC]

Approximately four thousand (unknown) chemicals in cigarettes versus three or four (known) in e cigarettes. .

Sewer versus water, choices are easy. Making them hard requires misinformation. A billion dollar industry requires false information and smokescreen (like the pun?) to protect revenue. The tobacco industry invests heavily in keeping their customers.

For me, the decision was always based on what programmers always rely on, math.

Inhaling food flavorings may be harmful, but the math of inhaling that compared to the tar and everything else of analogs was a no brainer.

So I now DIY, I know what's in there. Till they tell me flavorings are more harmful than cigarette tar or formaldehyde, I can vape in confidence.

 

[suprtrkr]

Cheers again dude, may i ask when you stopped smoking did you switch straight on to the vape pen?? ive heard of people stating this and im just thinking it could be your lungs' natural response to stopping smoking tobacco. i have been 8 days without a smoke now and i have a little bit of phlegm and a bad throat.

Some years ago. Yes, I went straight to a vape pen, that being all there was then available. Some time later I moved into mechanical mods as the best regulated mods at that time were limited to 15 watts and I needed more power than that. So, I was a mech snob for a while, until I broke down and bought a 200W Snow Wolf some time last year. Since then I have made up for it. In regulated mods I now own the SW, an SX Mini, A Sigelei 150, A Koopor Plus, a Smok Treebox and a Reuleaux RX200. That's in addition to my mechs, of course. Oh, and a Reo squonk box, but that's a mechanical mod too. I still like my mechs, even though I use regulateds to some extent. In fact, if it ever gets here, I just bought a really nice one from Turkey, a Fakir's Mods FX22. And I still have my eye on one from Gus mods. And I'd dearly love to find a used Tree of Life/Elm combo at a price I could afford. Ditto a 3-tube Caravela set.

 

[curiousJan]

Cheers again dude, may i ask when you stopped smoking did you switch straight on to the vape pen?? ive heard of people stating this and im just thinking it could be your lungs' natural response to stopping smoking tobacco. i have been 8 days without a smoke now and i have a little bit of phlegm and a bad throat.

You'll have many of the same symptoms from quitting when you switch to vaping, that's true, BUT ...

Some of us are sensitive to VG. It's not an allergy, just an intolerance for the viscous stuff that is VG. If I use a niquid of greater than 60% VG ratio I feel short of breath and have thick phlegm that is difficult to clear from my throat. I use 50/50 to 55/45 PG/VG ratio daily and am just fine.

 

[DJJonnyT]

All of your comments have been fantastic cheers. Any recommendations for a basic pen nowt proper fancy just a reliable tube that works with temperature settings? and also any recommendations for an e-juice i can buy to start? (i may try 50/50 to start suggestions on what brand does this would be spot on, no diacetyl))

 

[DJJonnyT]

Some years ago. Yes, I went straight to a vape pen, that being all there was then available. Some time later I moved into mechanical mods as the best regulated mods at that time were limited to 15 watts and I needed more power than that. So, I was a mech snob for a while, until I broke down and bought a 200W Snow Wolf some time last year. Since then I have made up for it. In regulated mods I now own the SW, an SX Mini, A Sigelei 150, A Koopor Plus, a Smok Treebox and a Reuleaux RX200. That's in addition to my mechs, of course. Oh, and a Reo squonk box, but that's a mechanical mod too. I still like my mechs, even though I use regulateds to some extent. In fact, if it ever gets here, I just bought a really nice one from Turkey, a Fakir's Mods FX22. And I still have my eye on one from Gus mods. And I'd dearly love to find a used Tree of Life/Elm combo at a price I could afford. Ditto a 3-tube Caravela set.

i know this is a big ask, but is there any chance of a step by step on how you make your e-juice? Cheers

 

[suprtrkr]

i know this is a big ask, but is there any chance of a step by step on how you make your e-juice? Cheers

Honestly, there's no difference between making juice and following a cookbook recipe. The recipe is the important part; you can find lots of good ones online and here in the DIY Forum. From there, use a juice calculator to get the actual amounts of which ingredient, measure them out and mix them together. That's it, really. Some people like to let their juice steep a while to allow the flavors to marry, but I generally make it in large enough quantities it happens naturally by the time I get to the new batch. I happen to make mine in lab glass, using cylindrical graduates and Mohr's pipettes for measuring and beakers for mixing. That's not necessary, really. For making small quantities, a handful of 10ml syringes will serve for measuring; a small glass tumbler-- what's called here a "rocks glass"-- will do as a mixing bowl; and a stainless spoon to mix it up. Pour it into a (clean) empty juice bottle and you're down the road. Really, it's not hard at all. Taking a stock recipe and tweaking it to get exactly what you want is much harder than just making it once you know what you want to do. To this end, I suggest you make some small test batches and vape them to get your recipes settled. Having done so, you need only tell the calculator how much you want to make and it will tell you how.

 

[DorianC]

The key here is proportion. Any recipe will require proper proportion, adjusted to taste.

 

[edyle]

i know this is a big ask, but is there any chance of a step by step on how you make your e-juice? Cheers

The simplest eliquid is just plain pg.
I don't have pg available in my area, so I use vg (glycerine from the pharmacy) mixed with 10% bottled water as a base.

If you are not going to be vaping a lot, there's probably no point getting into full blown mixing of your own liquids and instead you can do like I do and buy a good brand and mix it with your own base liquid of pg and/or vg.

 

[DJJonnyT]

Can someone suggest a top notch efficient pen for me (im not interested in those mods - just after a nice slinky slender tube)?? the aspire ones look good and my mate swears by them. was hoping someone could help me with this.. also which ready made e liquids would you suggest? ones without diacetyl of course and pharma grade ingredients. (im know im being a bit samey in my questions here) cheers again for your time. this is all tempting me to go for it but im still unsure, i dont want something cheap and also would prefer the best coil possible to avoid the leeching of metals much love guys.

 

[curiousJan]

@EvilGenius : Rude and unnecessary