Our friends at ATR launched a massive counteroffensive

[DrMA]

A well-coordinated strike against high-value militant ANTZ targets hit the political infrastructure of the tobacco ConTrol terrorist network. Let's hope this serves as a wake-up call to these blinkered parasites that We, The People, will not stand idly by while politicians try to defraud and exterminate us.

Vaping Claimed First Victim One Year Ago

Grover Norquist: Democrats Vaping Stance Is Election Loser | The Daily Caller

Vaping for Tax Freedom | National Review Online

 

[Kent C]

"But, Representative Thomson didn’t die; voters kicked her out of office for her baseless assault on vapor products and the consumers and voters who use them."

RIP :- )

Wonder how many more?

 

[DrMA]

"But, Representative Thomson didn’t die; voters kicked her out of office for her baseless assault on vapor products and the consumers and voters who use them."

RIP :- )

Wonder how many more?

I have a list of priority targets:

 

[Scottitude]

Great articles. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Mossy]

This is very nice..............thanks for sharing.

 

[Kent C]

I have a list of priority targets:

OMG, 'targets'! Micro aggression (ask Palin) and 'triggering' - Wait! isn't 'triggering' a micro aggression too?

 

[Lessifer]

Good articles but:

Every reasonable person and business supports restricting the sale of nicotine containing products to minors.

Actually, some of us don't. Some of us recognize that if everything we claim to be true actually IS true, there is no reason to restrict sales. Some of us recognize that restricting sales to minors only reinforces the idea that vapor products are something that people need to be protected from.

 

[Scottitude]

Good articles but:

Every reasonable person and business supports restricting the sale of nicotine containing products to minors.

Actually, some of us don't. Some of us recognize that if everything we claim to be true actually IS true, there is no reason to restrict sales. Some of us recognize that restricting sales to minors only reinforces the idea that vapor products are something that people need to be protected from.

I know what you're saying @Lessifer, but if that's the only concession we have to make, I'm okay with it.

And I'll gladly accept one instance of over-generalization over the FUD that the scaremongers on the other side of the fence sling out about like yesterday's bath-water.

 

[Lessifer]

I know what you're saying @Lessifer, but if that's the only concession we have to make, I'm okay with it.

And I'll gladly accept one instance of over-generalization over the FUD that the scaremongers on the other side of the fence sling out about like yesterday's bath-water.

I understand your point, I just don't see that ever happening. Perhaps at a federal level, but get down to a local level and "not suitable for children" is the basis for pretty much every other restriction. I'm also not willing to tell an underage person that they'll just have to keep smoking until they're 18, sorry.

 

[puffon]

I would be concerned with minors, practicing proper battery safety.

Of course if you tell a minor not to do something.....that is what many will do.....

 

[Lessifer]

I would be concerned with minors, practicing proper battery safety.

Of course if you tell a minor not to do something.....that is what many will do.....

I'm concerned with most vapers practicing proper battery safety.

 

[Katya]

I'm also not willing to tell an underage person that they'll just have to keep smoking until they're 18, sorry.

Well, it's not like you're telling them that. They can't legally buy cigarettes if they are under 18... And if they can get cigs, they probably can get e-cigs, too.

I understand your larger point, and I also believe that vaping should be available to smoking teens, or teens who might be thinking about picking up smoking, but that's a battle for another day. Let's make vaping safe, legal and affordable for adults first.

 

[mcol]

Just saving this photo for next year. Here is a list of the
Senators who passed the eliquid restrictions through in Indiana
earlier this year. They are the ones who voted yes on the photo.
Also in Indiana Governor Pence (R) signed this into law.
I have my 'vaper and voter' hoodie in the mail to me now, in
preparation for my upcoming visit to Indiana =)

 

[Lessifer]

Well, it's not like you're telling them that. They can't legally buy cigarettes if they are under 18... And if they can get cigs, they probably can get e-cigs, too.

I understand your larger point, and I also believe that vaping should be available to smoking teens, or teens who might be thinking about picking up smoking, but that's a battle for another day. Let's make vaping safe, legal and affordable for adults first.

Again, I understand the sentiment. What I don't understand is how we can say I should be able to vape unrestricted, not forced to go 25 feet away from the entrance of a building, while also agreeing that children need to be protected from vapor products.

It's not something that I usually proactively advocate for, but I also never say that I support age restrictions.

ETA: cigarettes may be illegal for minors to purchase, but they are much more readily available. You don't have to go into a specialty shop to purchase them. Also, many of the local level laws make POSSESSION of e-cigs illegal for minors, whereas only the SALE to minors is illegal for cigarettes.

 

[Katya]

ETA: cigarettes may be illegal for minors to purchase, but they are much more readily available.

Yes and no. My kids have always told me that it was much easier for the under-age crowd (high schoolers) to obtain the (still unmentionable here) substances than cigarettes. But that's anecdotal and may be only true in my neighborhood, where all stores card mercilessly.

Also, many of the local level laws make POSSESSION of e-cigs illegal for minors, whereas only the SALE to minors is illegal for cigarettes.

That's different and an abomination, indeed.

 

[Mazinny]

Again, I understand the sentiment. What I don't understand is how we can say I should be able to vape unrestricted, not forced to go 25 feet away from the entrance of a building, while also agreeing that children need to be protected from vapor products.

It's not something that I usually proactively advocate for, but I also never say that I support age restrictions.

ETA: cigarettes may be illegal for minors to purchase, but they are much more readily available. You don't have to go into a specialty shop to purchase them. Also, many of the local level laws make POSSESSION of e-cigs illegal for minors, whereas only the SALE to minors is illegal for cigarettes.

Interesting perspective. When you say you are against age restriction, do you mean absolutely no age restrictions whatsoever ? Say a nine year old walks into 7 11 and asks for one of these new Njoy pre-filled clearos and a battery ?

Not disagreeing with your position, i just haven't made my mind up. Need to think about possible outcomes and externalities etc... Mind you, it's really in the theoretical realm since i can't imagine any scenario where it would be legal, but i would still like to hear your reasoning as to why a nine year old should be able to purchase e-cigs.

 

[Mazinny]

Yes and no. My kids have always told me that it was much easier for the under-age crowd (high schoolers) to obtain the (still unmentionable here) substances than cigarettes. But that's anecdotal and may be only true in my neighborhood, where all stores card mercilessly.



That's different and an abomination, indeed.

Honestly, a high school student would not have too much difficulty getting their hands on cigarettes, e-cigs or the " unmentionable " in most cities in the U.S.

 

[Lessifer]

Interesting perspective. When you say you are against age restriction, do you mean absolutely no age restrictions whatsoever ? Say a nine year old walks into 7 11 and asks for one of these new Njoy pre-filled clearos and a battery ?

Not disagreeing with your position, i just haven't made my mind up. Need to think about possible outcomes and externalities etc... Mind you, it's really in the theoretical realm since i can't imagine any scenario where it would be legal, but i would still like to hear your reasoning as to why a nine year old should be able to purchase e-cigs.

I would say it is the responsibility of the parent to ensure that their 9 year old isn't out purchasing a disposable cigalike. However, if they were to purchase it, and use it properly, what exactly would the problem be? There would also be nothing in place saying that the clerk of the store would be REQUIRED to sell anything to that 9 year old. Just like other consumer products, legal age restrictions are not the only barriers to purchasing. I have not heard of any instances where a 9 year old has purchased a chain saw, but I don't believe it would be illegal.

 

[Mazinny]

I would say it is the responsibility of the parent to ensure that their 9 year old isn't out purchasing a disposable cigalike. However, if they were to purchase it, and use it properly, what exactly would the problem be? There would also be nothing in place saying that the clerk of the store would be REQUIRED to sell anything to that 9 year old. Just like other consumer products, legal age restrictions are not the only barriers to purchasing. I have not heard of any instances where a 9 year old has purchased a chain saw, but I don't believe it would be illegal.

Clearly parents have the ultimate responsibility, but that's not what we are discussing. So are you saying yes, a nine year should be able to legally purchase e-cigarettes ? Is there any goods or services that an adult could legally purchase, that you feel children should not be able to ?

Btw, i use to buy cigarettes for my uncle when i was younger than 9, but that was a different day and age !

 

[Stosh]

I'd certainly like to see all the high schoolers who were "smoking in the boy's room"in my HS anyway have access to vaping. I started experimenting with smoking long before high school myself.