Our friends at ATR launched a massive counteroffensive
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Well... I just ran a search on CE4 and got 16 pages worth of results. Nothing is foolproof, and if it is, all you have to do is wait for a better fool to be born.
I don't think it's necessarily that hard, but with a tank you can see how much is left, and the disposable part appeals(at least at first) to those looking for something that is just grab and go easy.
Cartomizers are just so hit and miss, and I could never tell when it was fully saturated.
It's not just re-filling, it's also changing coils ( or dryburning and re-wicking ) and washing the tank, not to mention leaking, gurgling dry hits etc... Not a big deal to most of us in this forum, but, you might be surprised how many smokers i have spoken with couldn't be bothered with that.
Just came to me, somewhere in this interview which was conducted exactly a year ago, he mentions that such a product is in development. Don't have time to listen to it again, just wanted to point out it isn't necessarily related to the deemings.
The last figures I saw on that was Wells Fargo Bonnie Herzog who estimated the "vtm" (vapor tank mods) was estimated at $1.1 Billion, while cigalike sales, while down, were still $1.4 billion. However, she expects the vtm sales $2.0 billion to bypass 'ecigarettes' $1.5 billion by 2018.
Do "VTM" sales include the juice used in them or is that just hardware?
I think the 'V" part - 'vapors' is the refillable aspect vs. disposables. It's a bit of a redefining since Bonnie differentiates the vtms from the "ecigarettes" - which we and she have called 'cigalikes' but in most of her analyses - it's vtm vs. ecigarettes.
Just to be clear, I understand eCigs to be cigalikes that are closed systems and can't have refillable cartridges or clearomizers (or tanks) put on them. Would you (or anyone) say this is accurate? I ask because I use cigalike device (pretty much always have), but not sure where my device fits in. I know first time I vaped (nicotine), it was on closed system, and I honestly thought that was decent. But not as good as what I use now, and what I use now is likely not as good as what you people who use mod devices are used to / routinely using.
I also find it hard to believe with all the information around that half of vapers are on closed systems only. I think a segment will always be using those, but I honestly can't see anyone sticking to that beyond year one. And not (only) because those products are sub standard, but more along lines of shinyitis and/or general awareness that there are better (not necessarily more expensive) products. Kinda like thinking here in 2015 that half the population uses flip phones and are convinced those are the best type of mobile phones around (vs. smart phones).
The cigalikes I started with could be refilled (the eRoll); I don't think they make them anymore, but there are some Halo cigalikes that can be refilled, which I think are still made.
Andria
Even with 'disposables' - people found a way to refill and I think the breakdown for cigalikes are disposable (closed systems) and refillable small cigarette size (or close) ecigs. eGo sized - not cigalike.
I don't think it's 'half of the vapers' - only half of the sales and it doesn't take a year for those who bought cigalikes to move to eGos or vtms. Although some stick with those (cigalikes) even after trying others.
And I agree - I think there will always be someone buying cigalikes - esp. someone not 'connected' to other vapers, but will eventually 'wonder' about those 'other ones' :- )
This chart makes me wonder.... Are the sales higher on cigalikes because of the disposable nature of most of them?I think the 'V" part - 'vapors' is the refillable aspect vs. disposables. It's a bit of a redefining since Bonnie differentiates the vtms from the "ecigarettes" - which we and she have called 'cigalikes' but in most of her analyses - it's vtm vs. ecigarettes.
I mean we don't buy a new mod everyday or every other day the way cigalike users have to replace theirs.
Also someone asked earlier if the juices we buy are part of the numbers on the mod side. If not then I would think that number would be astronomically higher.
I think it's because it is the most common 'first buy' ecig. I agree with the rest of what you say and I tried to find the 'projection for 2018' graph where vtms overtake ecigs but couldn't find it to post. It exists in this pdf:
http://natoshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/NATO-2015-Marking-E-Cig-Territory-Herzog-Panel.pdf
I like it.
Although It does seem like an awfully high projection for a segment of the market that is projected to be gone by then.
I like it.
Although It does seem like an awfully high projection for a segment of the market that is projected to be gone by then.
Well, she's a Wells Fargo analyst and she's also informed the market of the deeming and what it could mean - but it's a bit like beta max and VHS in one sense - give the analysis of each - let the investor decide using all the data not just part of it.
I was being a little bleak. Of course I don't think they can make those projections with speculation of the fate of the industry in mind.
As for me, I'm pessimistic but hopeful. Hoping for the best while preparing for the worst.
As for me, I'm pessimistic but hopeful. Hoping for the best while preparing for the worst.
But that's the market. There were people who "absolutely knew" mainly based on the quality picture, that Beta would win. There are so many other examples - some on products and some on what the gov't is going to do - new Coke, keystone pipeline, gun control, beta-blockers, RU486, etc. etc. Investors need to know the most data available - I should say 'good investors'
rather than those who throw darts and the WSJ :- )- Status
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