Please, find an alternative to LiquidWeb

Discussion in 'Site Feedback and Help' started by VapingTurtle, Apr 25, 2012.

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  1. VapingTurtle

    VapingTurtle ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Rolygate, this hosting service is terrible! Please look for an alternative.

    You get us a change to a reliable hosting service and I promise to become a Supporting Member. :)

    I'll bet many would be willing to make that pledge. :)
  2. rolygate

    rolygate Forum Manager Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Please tell us what your issues are - thanks.
  3. Keekers

    Keekers Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Hi Rolygate,

    I'm sure you have gotten responses already but my 2 cents is that the loading of pages is extremely slow. Every time I click a new link, the time to get to the page takes quite a while.
  4. st0nedpenguin

    st0nedpenguin Moved On Verified Member ECF Veteran

    I'm guessing a significant increase in performance could be had if the site didn't refresh pages every time you hit the back button.
  5. bodrell

    bodrell Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Ditto slow...of all the sites I visit regularly, this one is the slowest-loading by far. I love ECF but the sluggishness is really annoying.
    I don't know why that is, since there aren't that many ads or images to load.
  6. wv2win

    wv2win ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    I thought it was my computer. I'm glad to see it wasn't just me.
  7. elfstone

    elfstone Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    It's pretty fast for me, but I'm aggressively blocking all ads and social media plugins. Not because I don't want to support ECF, but because with them allowed it takes five to ten seconds for a page to completely render, sometimes even more which is unacceptable on this side of 1991.
  8. bodrell

    bodrell Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    elfstone, I use an ad blocker too; but I've never heard of a utility to block all the social media nonsense, must look into that!
    Even with the ad blocker, 5-10 seconds sounds about right and that includes using the back button.
  9. rolygate

    rolygate Forum Manager Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    There is nothing wrong with our hosting services, it's one of the best for our purposes.

    If we are talking pageload speed here, a flat HTML page load time is the best guide to the network speed. Otherwise, the speed is dragged down by:-

    (a) the efficiency of the host's systems
    (b) the efficiency of the dynamic site - how fast the server apps work together to interrogate the database and build the pages
    (c) the number of plugins - more plugins = a slower site
    (d) the number of plugins that depend on external services - like social media ones
    (e) how good things are at your end

    To test the basic network & site speed, go to the Contacts page - the button is on the top and bottom navbar on every forum page. It's not quite a straight HTML page as it's within the forum but it should load in under 2 seconds (if it was in the webroot and with a direct path it should load in under half a second). Another useful test is Clone Tab, a right-click command in Opera: it asks the server for the same page without needing much in the way of DB queries, and is a good test of basic dynamic page serving speed - an ECF page will load in about 4 seconds.

    The site is slow because it's a heavily extended forum with millions of pages and dozens of heavyweight plugins. On top of that, the social media plugins depend on external services and probably double or treble the page loading time. We can't speed the site up by using cloud servers or content delivery networks because every page is different according to who you are and what you have just done - each page is built specially for you, on demand. A large, extended forum is the slowest site on the web.

    To improve site speed for your location, these are the steps I'd look at:

    1. Replace your ISP's DNS servers in your router
    This is a bit tricky the first time you do it but easy thereafter (you'll need to know your router's network address and its login). It is done because you may be using an internet route that is suboptimal due to ISP issues. You have to get into your router's management with your browser and change some of the set-up. If you want to know how to do this, please open a new thread such as, "How can I change my DNS server IPs ?".

    Use OpenDNS IPS or any other you prefer, here are some example IPS:
    Computer Security Guide
    - right down at the bottom of the page.
    Or google for 'free dns servers'.

    2. Don't use Internet Explorer
    It's just nasty, nasty, nasty. Use Firefox, Opera, Chrome (or one of the Chrome versions without Google's spyware), Safari, etc.

    3. Update your browser
    Go to the Help (or Tools) menu at top right of your browser's main menu, and find Update.

    4. Update your PC's java install
    I advise using the JavaRa process instead of directly via Sun Java because the JavaRa method is more secure: it removes old Java versions and the installer. Go here:

    5. Use Firefox plus script blocker plugins
    If after all this you still have a pageload time of over 8 seconds, use Firefox with script blockers: plugins like Noscript and AdBlock that stop page elements loading that are not part of the core content.

    However there is a point of diminishing returns with Firefox because like any other PC or server webapp, loading it up with plugins slows it to a crawl. This is so noticeable that Firefox users, tempted by the huge variety of plugins, can bring it to its knees. Firefox loaded with tools can be very useful though, so if you have two PCs it may help to have a skinny one loaded on one computer and a workhorse on the other.

    No page should take longer than about 8 or 9 seconds to load the core content. If it does then the problem is at your end, not here. Fix the issues above and with a standard home internet connection, you'll get down to 8 seconds or faster. If despite the above fixes you can't get this sort of result, your internet connection is the issue. People on the other side of the world can load ECF pages in 8 seconds. As a basic check, time the Contacts page - anything over about 1.5 to 2 seconds indicates a problem at your end, maybe network or PC related. If the Contacts page loads in under 2 seconds but other ECF pages take over 10 seconds to load the central content of the page (other stuff may take longer), then you have a browser or PC issue - your browser can't handle scripts properly. Update it or get another browser.

    Note: the above timings may not apply at peak times since the site will be heavily loaded (lunchtime and mid-evenings East Coast).
  10. Keekers

    Keekers Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    I'm starting to notice sometimes it's slower than others. It must just be the quadrillion people on here.
  11. KentuckyRain

    KentuckyRain Full Member Verified Member

    I have noticed that most times for me at least, it's my isp. I just checked my speed on and its pathetic, it graded mine a
    D- on National and D on Global
  12. tmcase

    tmcase ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    I block all the ads and media crap also but pages still take up to 30 seconds to load. Clicking on "settings" loads quickly but clicking on any of my subscriptions takes forever. Long enough for me to get up and go pee or go for another beer while I wait. It's been like this for about a month and it's getting old.
  13. Keekers

    Keekers Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oh my goodness! You must be banging your head against the wall on this site! Poor girl!
  14. BuzzKill

    BuzzKill Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Roly it is getting very close to useless IMO < the load speeds are WAY up on my end, and I test it against other sites and ping to check connections!!!! so it is ECF being slow .

    25 pings 2 sec apart = 100% failure. California USA
  15. oldsoldier

    oldsoldier Retired ECF Forum Manager Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    that would indicate routing. even on my crappy ISP

    As a comparison here are my ping stats for A forum larger than us and paid for by cannonical...

  16. Keekers

    Keekers Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Yeah...some of the pages are taking about 10 sec to load tonight...
  17. Keekers

    Keekers Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Document Complete Fully Loaded
    Load Time First Byte Start Render Result (error code) Time Requests Bytes In Time Requests Bytes In
    13.325s 8.217s 9.042s 0 13.325s 93 647 KB 14.070s 99 706 KB

    W3C Navigation Timing
    domContentLoaded loadEvent
    9.578s - 9.632s (0.054s) 13.252s - 13.295s (0.043s)
  18. Keekers

    Keekers Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Page size
    Load time
    Perf. grade
    Your website is slower than 88% of all tested websites
  19. Keekers

    Keekers Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    But that's ok I'm not going anywhere :)
    Just wanted to share the results. I tested another one too but I figured I posted enough stats
  20. rolygate

    rolygate Forum Manager Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Google's reported average load time for our pages is 4.5 seconds. My estimate is 8 or 9 seconds for core content load for any user. The 'junk' takes a lot longer to load but doesn't affect the main content.

    Page load times longer than this indicate the problem is at your end: on the network or your PC.

    1. Change the DNS server IPs on your router. Until you've done this you can't pin down any network issue.

    2. You need script blockers on your browser because either the browser or your PC can't handle scripts.

    Once again, try a flat HTML page load test: the Contacts page. If it takes longer than 2 seconds to load completely then the problems are definitely at your end.
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