Question on using flavoring

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid' started by paulw2014, Mar 30, 2013.

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  1. paulw2014

    paulw2014 Registered Supplier - Offline ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2012
    Location:
    Batavia, IL
    I've heard that one can use the flavoring commonly found in supermarkets to make e-juice, as opposed to more expensive flavorings from companies like Wizard Labs, Lorann, Flavor Art, etc...

    A few questions:

    1. How does the flavors from supermarket compare with those from Lorann or other specialty venders?

    2. Can someone recommend a few big brand name for supermarket flavorings? Is McCormick one of them?

    3. We can use both water based and oil based flavorings for e-juice right? Or are there important differences I should know about? I got my current flavors from Wizard Labs, that is an oil based is it?

    thanks
     
  2. patkin

    patkin Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Arizona USA
    Short answer: Grocery store flavorings are made for food. Most contain ingredients that will kill an atomizer.

    Longer answer: I have lots of food flavorings (diabetic) both natural and artificial and haven't found one without an atty-offending ingredient. Go to some artificial flavoring sites that make/sell vaping flavorings and read the ingredients. If one you're looking at the grocers contains anything else, I wouldn't risk it. On down the road, if you ever get into DIYn, you can make your own flavorings but it will require lots of reading in the DIY section here.
     
  3. glassmanoak

    glassmanoak Registered Supplier ECF Veteran

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    Lafayette, La
    Excellent answer, Patkin! And, No, WL flavorings are not oil-based
     
  4. paulw2014

    paulw2014 Registered Supplier - Offline ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2012
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    Batavia, IL
    So we can use both water based and oil based flavoring for e-juice right? Any significant differences or ramifications I should know about? Thanks?

    BTW, if I purchase flavors from Lorann or Flavor Labs, they are not oil based either are they?

    Thanks
     
  5. philderbeest

    philderbeest Full Member Verified Member

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    I may be wrong so people please correct me if this is the case. It has been a couple of years since I started DIY and back then oil based flavours were a big no no. This wasn't a component issue but directed towards health and the effects of an oil based substance in the lungs. As I said it's quite possible that research may have been done and it may be safe so I welcome any input on this. (As a sidenote I do use a PG based shop raspberry mixed with TPA coconut extra quite often.)
     
  6. Hoosier

    Hoosier Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Indiana
    I'm a bit confused here. The idea of a flavoring that is not known to make great juice is less expensive how? I know Capella's Sweet Tangerine at 15% makes a great juice and costs about $6 for 13ml which makes over 80ml of juice. How much cheap flavoring do I have to buy and experiment with to make a great vape? I don't know, but it's a very short path to hitting the $6 mark which makes the cheap stuff more expensive real quick.

    When I started I questioned everything. I tried flavorings that nobody was using, from all kinds of sources. As an example, I tried these big bottles of baking extractions. They were cheap and smelled great. They busted a number of dripping/test attys and never could get them to make a half way workable juice. I considered them an expensive way to get some great bottles to premix my PG and VG together after all was said and done. I don't discourage anyone else from trying these kinds of things, but to think it is a less expensive way to go is completely wrong. I never thought it was going to be cheap doing what others weren't and it wasn't. I did discover some stuff, but you have to pay for education when going your own way. For folks that want a cheap and easy way to make their own juice I nearly always recommend Cap's Sweet Tangerine at 15% because it just works and anybody can do it.

    Oils, yes I use some. Mostly mint oils. There are risks with a type of pneumonia from inhaling veggy and mineral oil. Mint oils have not been linked to this risk as far as I know. (Look up the health risks of the demographic of fire-eaters and you will find this lung issue from inhaling oils being fairly common.) And to further confuse the issue is that Lorann's Oils is a trademarked brand name and a majority of their flavorings are not actually oils. But if anyone wants mint flavor and wants to avoid oils there is TPA/TFA who has mint flavorings that are PG based. While it takes much more PG based mint flavoring to have the same taste impact than mint oils, it's still a good way to go. When I choose to avoid oils, it is because they can be an absolute bear to mix. (I abandoned one recipe that required the bottles to be placed on a homemade vibrator for a week to get the oil to mix because the noise drove everyone in the house nuts.) Oddly enough I am currently vaping a juice that has a tiny touch of anise oil which makes it just perfect and the tiny amount mixes just fine. I don't recommend using oils, more so because they are tough to work with than the risks, but I do note that mint oils can be used in tiny amounts.

    Gums, sugars and fats will clog heating coils. These are common in flavorings used in baking. Even natural vanilla flavoring will have fats and sugars to add to the fact that it is weak and will require a higher percentage of flavoring makes it undesirable. I vaguely remember a few years ago someone posted they got a McCorm's flavoring to work for them somewhere around 50% total flavoring. Since that brand is generally considered weak, that fits fairly well, but I've since tired of working with weak flavorings so I have never attempted working with them.

    There are a number of reasons that you find nearly everyone here using PG and alcohol based flavorings, and a few VG based, and not looking at $/ml of flavoring. The value conscious are looking at $/cubic yards of great vape or $/fun time.

    I encourage you to try the flavorings from your local store. Experiment and report back. Feel free to use my flavoring level blog as a guide in your experiments if you like. If you were to track all your costs to make a good vape with these flavorings and report that too, I think you would be providing a great service to other mixers. That's the best part of this sub, the experimenting.
     
  7. paulw2014

    paulw2014 Registered Supplier - Offline ECF Veteran

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    Hoosier, that was a comprehensive and very helpful post, thanks.

    I'm not looking to exactly save money, just want to find flavorings that'll work the best. You recommended the tangerine flavor from Capella, so I will give that a try.

    If you or anyone else can recommend a few other great flavors to try, I'd appreciate it.

    thanks
     
  8. patkin

    patkin Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2012
    Location:
    Arizona USA
    I have 20 or so Super Concentrated flavorings from Vapingzone and they're all good. Some are very dark but since so little is required, I haven't had a problem with clogging or quick atty death.

    Ooops... they, however, are not USA flavorings if that factors in for you.
     
  9. Hoosier

    Hoosier Vaping Master ECF Veteran

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    Indiana
  10. paulw2014

    paulw2014 Registered Supplier - Offline ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2012
    Location:
    Batavia, IL
    Great, I'll check those out.

    In the meantime, I really like fruit flavors so just recommended a few fruit flavor sources. I only need two or three good ones, ones that I cannot go wrong with. Since I'm making a batch for some of my smoking buddies, I prefer flavors that not only "one or two person likes", but most people will not mind. Again, just need two or three good ones.

    BTW, if one is trying to make e-juice that'll appeal to the greatest number of people, then fruit flavor should be the safest right? I mean, I heard tobacco (e-juice tobacco flavor is nothing like real tobacco) and coffee flavor can really turn a lot of people off, and that fruit flavors are more “neutral"?

    thanks
     
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