The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

Discussion in 'Media and General News' started by Vocalek, Jul 14, 2013.

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  1. Vocalek

    Vocalek CASAA Activist ECF Veteran

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    UTSA scholars to study health effects of electronic cigarettes

    The Good:

    The Bad:

    The Ugly:

    I understand the basics of structuring a research project. Usually a negative hypothesis is proposed: "X does not have the effect of Y." Then when little to no evidence is found to support the negative hypothesis, the study provides evidence that "X does have the effect of Y."

    However, even though the wording of the hypothesis displays a negative attitude toward e-cigarettes, it is not formulated as a negative hypothesis statement. "The scholars will test the hypothesis that inhaling vaporized nicotine does not stimulate the human nervous system in ways that could seriously impact daily living."

    Also, given the fact that e-cigarettes were never intended to be marketed to the entire population, any testing of this sort should compare the physiological effects of Method A of obtaining nicotine (smoking) to Method B (vaping) to provide the public with a complete picture of the effects of switching from smoking to vaping.

    So the full hypothesis to be tested would be "inhaling vaporized nicotine has a worse impact on the human nervous system than inhaling smoke."
     
  2. wv2win

    wv2win ECF Guru ECF Veteran

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    When a study is specifically set-up to prove a negative instead of simply report the findings against a control group, which should be smokers, it doesn't sound like it will be objective.
     
  3. retired1

    retired1 Curmudgeon Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I beg to differ. Where are all those studies that would have been required from the pharmaceuticals before they started marketing NRTs in inhaler form?
     
  4. Vocalek

    Vocalek CASAA Activist ECF Veteran

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    Excellent point.

    Here is an animal study:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8614291
     
  5. AgentAnia

    AgentAnia Vaping Master ECF Veteran

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    Irreverant reaction to this:
    They could, of course, just ask the hundreds of thousands of vapers whether vaporized nicotine has impacted their daily lives...

    But seriously. Nothing in the description of this research project indicates there will be a control group (either smokers, or non-nicotine users), so can I conclude the study will be straight research on the one target population? If so, it will be interesting, but lacking comparison to smoking, pretty much irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. Also, will the test subjects be former smokers, and if so, might not that give different results than if the TSs are never smokers?
     
  6. moonlessnight

    moonlessnight Super Member ECF Veteran

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    I find it funny that they want to prove vaping to hamper physical activity. When I gave up analogs 18 months ago I also changed my life in general I have lost 125 pounds and this last Monday went on a 50 mile bicycle ride. I would say that I wouldn't have been able to accomplish this were I still smoking.
     
  7. Thunderball

    Thunderball Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Thirty thousand isn't much for a study I would think and If I knew any study on anything had this small amount in their check book, I wouldnt even bother to read or concern myself with it. Maybe I am showing my ignorance here, I don't know. How about we band together and take donations to conduct a study of our own and give the money to who ever is the most revered/respected research lab/college that the powers that be know of or would heed or believe in their findings ?

    I would like to think we could certainly come up with more than 30K towards the study.

    If some one starts a fund we would trust, I will pledge 10.00. Thats not much, but if we all pitched in what we could..... just sayin.... or maybe that's easier said than done.
     
  8. 2coils

    2coils Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    CASAA had or has a research fund for a specific project, then I believe they were raising additional funds for other productive endeavors. I believe it went rather well, Though I don't speak for CASAA so I will let them explain. I think donating period is a must at any dollar amount. I just wish there was a way to gain mass exposure for them. I would love to see more awareness at B&M's and e-commerce sites!
     
  9. Petrodus

    Petrodus Vaping Master ECF Veteran

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    Sarcasm Alert
    Guess we just have to prove the water quenches thirst thing
     
  10. Thunderball

    Thunderball Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I was thinking the same thing... A donation tin on every B&M counter. How to do that ? Also, how to explain that to new Vapeing folk.
     
  11. 2coils

    2coils Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I have to defer to the professionals on that one! Many more members better to answer then me! The new vapers, i bet most of them, have no idea about the potential disasters this industry is up against. We are a bit of a special breed lurking the forums. Most that go to convenience stores probably have no idea whats going on. In my area, there are only a couple of B&M's in the entire state. They have very little resources to turn to. I do have to give MAJOR props to AvidVaper. I ordered from them two weeks ago for the first time. In my package was an informative CASAA business card to go along with my order. I had a smile ear to ear because of this. What a great idea!!! For this alone, they have earned my repeat business!!!
     
  12. DC2

    DC2 Tootie Puffer Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    There is a project underway to help accomplish that.
    :)
     
  13. 2coils

    2coils Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    May I ask.....You had mentioned in a couple of threads, that you had some ideas for a project that you wanted to run by CASAA. Is that what you are referring to?
     
  14. DC2

    DC2 Tootie Puffer Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Yes, I asked CASAA if they would be interested in an idea I had and they are.

    I wanted to put together something that vendors could provide to customers...
    And a letter explaining to the vendors why that information is important to provide to customers...

    Basically, the letter would provide the reasons why vendors should encourage their customers to join CASAA.
    Then they could print out the information and give it to walk-in customers, and they could also email the information to their customer base.

    The information provided to the customers would hopefully...
    --Inform them of the threats vapers face
    --Explain who and what CASAA is and how they are fighting for the future of vaping
    --Encourage the customers to, at the very least, join CASAA and add to their number

    CASAA likes the idea, and is trying to find time to put these items together.

    And when they do, we will have something that we can all give to our vendors that will hopefully encourage them to provide to their customers.

    The last step in the plan is encouraging US to get that information to every vendor we know.
    I have some plans for that last step, but I'm still thinking it through and trying to perfect how it will work.

    And once I have the materials available I will also seek additional input from the community.
    And then it's game on!
    :)
     
  15. Petrodus

    Petrodus Vaping Master ECF Veteran

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    Good idea ...
    However, I suggest it would Piss-Off the FDA
    and they would consider it a back-door approach
    for vendors advocating e-cigarettes are a smoking cessation device.
     
  16. Vocalek

    Vocalek CASAA Activist ECF Veteran

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    I didn't see any mention whatsoever about smoking cessation. There is an organized movement trying to get any and all nicotine use treated exactly the same way as smoking is treated. You can't do it here, you can't live here if you do it, and you can't work here if you do it.

    Telling vapors about this is a political statement, not a health claim.
     
  17. Petrodus

    Petrodus Vaping Master ECF Veteran

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    Understood ...
    However, I doubt those opposed to e-smoking consider this politics.
    Would be interesting to see if any vendors would be willing
    to take and run with this ... Most I've talked to wish to avoid
    getting openly involved with these issues with their customers ...
    especially passing out such material.

    We think its a good idea ...
    However, I seriously doubt many vendors will.
     
  18. Petrodus

    Petrodus Vaping Master ECF Veteran

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    For years there's been suggestions about what vendors "Should Do"
    to go high-profile with their customers to push back against those
    opposing e-cigarettes.

    Vendors haven't done so (for the most part) for "business" reasons.

    Blu e-cigs could include such informative packets with each sale ...
    Good Idea from our side of the isle ... not from a sales/marketing
    point of view.

    Edit ...
    Many here will say ... Well, vendors have "skin in the game"
    for reasoning why they should do this or that ...
    I suggest that is exactly why most will not consider many
    of our suggestions.
     
  19. Bill Godshall

    Bill Godshall Executive Director
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    I strongly suspect that this e-cigarette study to be done by UTSA researchers will study the impact e-cigarettes have on nonsmokers (instead of smokers or vapers).

    But since nonsmokers probably consume <1% of all e-cigarette products that have been sold, it makes no sense to study the impact of e-cigarettes on nonsmokers (unless the actual goal of the study is to generate more fear mongering propaganda against the products).
     
  20. 2coils

    2coils Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    For "business" reasons is exactly why they should get involved. I don't see the downside. Can you please clarify your opinion as to why this wouldn't be a good idea? Nobody is suggesting that vendors ask their customers "go to war" for them. But certainly educating them about harm reduction alternatives, being available for them or their family members, even against the will of our government. Mentioning CASAA or handing them an informative packet or card wouldn't hurt IMHO. In the age of the internet, one doesn't have to do much other than plant the seed in someones head. The rest is up to the customer if he/she is interested in learning more. I'm sure some customers who love vaping, would be happy to defend their rights. As I said, AVID VAPER is mailing CASAA cards with their order, maybe that alone is enough. I LOVE IT!! I will also thank them when I make my next order.
     
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