Trying DIY, have some questions....

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid' started by new kid, Oct 25, 2013.

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  1. new kid

    new kid Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2012
    Location:
    Iowa City Area
    I've decided to give the DIY thing a shot. I have order a bunch of supplies for mixing but have a few questions.

    I ordered a bunch of flavors and wanted to see if anyone had any ideas which one(s) might be a good place to start and suggest a starting %. Here is what I have coming (I went kinda wild):


    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD]10 ml New York Cheesecake Flavor Concentrate (CA)
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]10 ml Cheesecake (Graham Crust) (TFA)
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]10 ml Peach Flavor (TFA)
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]10 ml Strawberry Flavor (TFA)
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]10 ml Vanilla Cupcake (TFA)
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]10 ml Orange Cream Flavor (TFA)
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]10 ml Cinnamon Danish Flavor (TFA)
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]10 ml Peaches and Cream Flavor Concentrate (CA)
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]10 ml Watermelon Flavor (TFA)
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]10 ml Sweet Strawberry Flavor Concentrate (CA)
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]10 ml Hypnotic Myst Flavor (FA)
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]8ML Marshmallow Flavor (TFA)
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]8ML Raspberry Flavor Concentrate (TFA)
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]8ML Strawberries & Cream Flavor (TFA)
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]8ML Honeysuckle (PG) Flavor Concentrate (TFA)
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]8ML Banana Nut Bread Flavor (TFA)
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]8ML Blueberry Wild TFA Flavor

    My initial plan is just to try most these "solo" but ideas from those that have some experience are welcome. Thoughts on the CheeseCake/crust/fruit most welcome.

    I saw that the CA concentrates don't have sweeter (which I like). I have some liquid sucralose and thought I might give that a try. Maybe a drop or two at a time in a 5ml test?

    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Next question is has anyone
    tried to test liquids without nic solution, just a VG/PG mix? I have some PG sitting around and I thought I might try that while waiting for some other stuff to come in. I don't think it work for tobacco's but for flavors like these my experience is the flavor does not change notably with 0 nic. I though I might try to make a base out of 50/50 and divvy that up for creating bases. I have 36mg PG coming but its seems it will take awhile ship from wizardlabs.
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    Thanks!
     
  2. dannyv45

    dannyv45 ECF DIY E-Liquid Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Apr 12, 2013
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Your thought of trying each flavor solo is right on track. You need to know how each flavor taste before you can combine flavors. Your going to want to group them into 4 catagories.

    1. Creams and deserts (Cakes, creams,)
    2. Fruits
    3. Tobaccos (I know you don't have any listed)
    4. additives/enhancers (AP, sweetener, spice)

    Usually one selection of either fruits, creams or tobaccos serve as a base then the others can be used as additives or enhancers for instance.

    Use cheesecake as a base (Primary flavor) then you may want to make it a strawberry cheese cake. So you would use the strawberry as a minor additive (Added at a much lower percentage to the cheese cake) So the recipe may look something like this.

    10% cheese cake
    3% strawberry

    Which would give it a primary cheesecake flavor with a strawberry top note.

    Depend on your own taste buds and not somebody elses taste. Do some experimentation.

    As far as all your other questions Read my blogs for more insight. All your questions are answered there.

    E-Cigarette Forum - dannyv45 - Blogs

    And read hoosiers blogs

    E-Cigarette Forum - Hoosier - Blogs
     
  3. new kid

    new kid Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2012
    Location:
    Iowa City Area
    Thanks DannyV45. That is quite helpful. I know I have to find what works for me. However, your comments help give me an idea of where to start. Just the thought of using cheese as the base with less strawberry makes sense but I would not have thought of it -- at least for the first 100-200ml of testing.

    As far as that goes, I'll need to figure out a tobacco to use as a base. tobacco with a flavoring of some sort is one of my main vapes. The fruit flavors just seemed to be an easier place to start.
     
  4. Spydro

    Spydro Sindoyen Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    $in City
    A lot can be learned from this thread for many brands of flavors in stand alone percentages. Closer to the end some lists are updated to include more flavors.

    http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/74109-guide-diy-flavoring.html

    As Danny said, one flavor at a time is a good starting place. And as has been said many times, start small and work up with flavors. Too much of a flavor can cancel it out. You can always add more.
     
  5. dannyv45

    dannyv45 ECF DIY E-Liquid Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Another thing I can recommend is start with hangsen flavorings. They are easy to use and by far the best tasting. If you've seen my other posts you will see I recommend it often almost to the point of sounding like a commercial for hangsen. The reason is because it is good flavoring and are the main flavors that I use.

    Hangsen e-Liquid Flavoring | ecigExpress
     
  6. ardvaark

    ardvaark Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2012
    Location:
    Santa Clara, CA
    I just wanted to pop in and agree with the excellent suggestions here. If I do a 10ml batch of something where I want to mix flavors, I start with trying to figure out which 2 or more flavors would complement each other. Like Danny said above, catagorize flavors. To me, the Cinnamon Danish Flavor and Banana Nut bread sound good together. So I would pick a main base flavor like the Cinnamon Danish at maybe 6-8%, try that alone to see what you have there, then I would add only a drop at a time of the Banana Nut bread to see where that puts it for you. I'm sure there are many here to help you with the chessecake flavors you have, I think you have many excellent combo's there with all the flavors you've chosen. Unfortunately, I'm not a cheesecake fan myself.:facepalm: so I can't be of much help.

    Enjoy!
    Let us know how goes it!

    Peter
     
  7. kparisi

    kparisi Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Saint Augustine, FL, USA
    I've seen a lot of suggestions in general for mixing and then testing your mixtures with your vaping device. This is not my method. It uses up precious resources and I'm just too darn cheap and lazy to want to keep replacing atties and/or cleaning them to get rid of one flavor to try the next. No matter how well you clean them, sometimes the flavor still sticks around and taints the flavor of your newest creation.

    Here's what I do:
    As soon as new flavors come in, I open them and dip a toothpick into a flavor. Then I put the toothpick in my mouth to get an idea of the strength. Use a clean, new toothpick for each taste since saliva is a weak acid and can eventually break down your juices. Yuck, but true. Anyway, figure out your own scale method and write it all down to kind of categorize your flavors. Next, I'll do some mixing in small batches using the base of choice starting at very low percentages. My taste is rather sensitive, so I tend to like flavors somewhat weak. For example, I'll use 5ml of PG and mix in a percentage based on my observations with the toothpick taste test. Once you've mixed and steeped (steep over time or use a hot water bath. I personally use the hot water bath since it speeds the process up a bit), try the toothpick method again. If it tastes too weak, increase the percentage of your flavors, steep, then taste again. Keep in mind that what may taste like garbage now might be your favorite in a week, so get plenty of bottles to store each mixture.

    As for tasting without nic, I never taste test using nic. That's just a waste, imho. Tossing 5ml of mixed juice without nic isn't as devastating to me as if I had to toss 30ml with nic added. Most calculators give you the option of making with or without nic, so just leave that value as 0. If you're using a high nic solution, such as 100mg (please take precautions with this amount and treat it as hazardous materials!!), the pre-mixed 5ml taste test sample won't make a big impact on the nic percentage of your final mix.

    Taste is subjective, so I don't normally mix at suggested ratios. However you do it, you can always add more flavor if you start out with weak flavors instead of trying to figure out how to add the proper PG/VG ratio to dilute a strong flavor. Hope that helps! :)
     
  8. dannyv45

    dannyv45 ECF DIY E-Liquid Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    The problem with tooth picks and dabbing on your finger and tasting concentrated flavors is there not diluted enough to give a true representation. The best way short of mixing a test batch is to get a plain unsalted cracker and break off a small corner of it so you have approx a 1 inch triangle peace and put a drop of flavor on it. Put it in the microwave for about 10 seconds and let it cool a bit. Then taste it.
     
  9. kparisi

    kparisi Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Saint Augustine, FL, USA
    As I said, using a toothpick to taste the bare flavors is only to get an idea of the strength of the flavor, not to get an accurate one. Then again, I've always been one of those cooks (meals, not ejuice for the most part) that eyeballs everything and measures nothing. The cracker sounds...different. Everyone has their preferred methods. :)

    Also, make sure you step away from mixing and trying new flavors after a little while. It'll muck up your sense of taste and smell. What seemed good yesterday might be terrible today after your senses have come back to normal. Chocolate and sorbet are palate cleansers. You could try a spoonful of one of those and a good whiff of coffee grounds to reset your senses if you're on a roll and don't want to quit.
     
  10. souleaterzer0

    souleaterzer0 Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2012
    Location:
    right here
    I always do a 5 ml tester of all my new flavors, usually at 5% on all fruits/bakery/candy/drink types and 2% on tobaccos. I then adjust the flavor either up or down depending of how light/strong the testers are. I then start mixing testers (a drop each in a dripper atomizer) to get a since of what/how the flavors taste/react to each other. Once I think I have a base line for the flavor I then start mixing with other flavors. After a while you get a sense of how a flavor is going to play with others and the certain characteristics each flavor brings to the table. Start small and work your way up. Soon you will be able to say "this recipe needs a fuller taste... needs some marshmellow/tobacco/etc. to round it out."

    I would try lets see here... For you first recipe hmmm....
    TFA Blueberry Extra 4%
    TFA Strawberry 4%
    TFA Marshmellow 2%
    TFA Vanilla Cupcake 1-2%
    Maybe TFA Raspberry 1% as well if you feel adventurous.
    If you possibly have sweetener add up to 1% (I prefer sucralose)

    All else fails you can always do TFA Watermelon at 5-10% and get something at least vapeable.

    Or you can do
    TFA Blueberry extra 7%
    TFA Cinnamon Danish 5%
    sucralose 1-2%
    for a blueberry danish... one of my recipes I made when starting DIY and still vape today
     
  11. new kid

    new kid Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2012
    Location:
    Iowa City Area
    Thanks Everyone, this is what I was looking for. Just some basic ideas on where to start. Everything is headed this way at this point so now it is time to sit and wait. I don't think I will try anything until next weekend when I can work undisturbed.
     
  12. Thunderball

    Thunderball Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    May 5, 2013
    Location:
    Grayson, Georgia
    I have never done this, but I believe that I read on the TFA site that the owner taste tests his flavors using cool whip. This comes from someone that mixes and sells a buch of flavorings. Just an interesting tid bit I read.

    I also disagree about not including nic in my own test juices. Just a personal preference. I have gotten "stung" when I was a newer vapor at a B&M store testing their "juices" and deciding on some great flavors only to have bought 60 bucks worth of juice that tastes much diiferenty than what I tried at the store.....ultimately giving it away or trashing it.......all because there was no Nic in the test juices. So, theres always that aspect.
     
  13. we2rcool

    we2rcool Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    AGREED! Nic alters flavor - sometimes substantially. We always include nic in our testers. We keep about a quart of our base with 12% nic added 'on hand' for our testing. Sure, the addition of the flavors lowers the nic percentage a bit - but rarely enough to affect the flavor (and we don't vape the testers for nicotine, we vape them for taste).
     
  14. dannyv45

    dannyv45 ECF DIY E-Liquid Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    +1 on adding nic to test samples. If you vape with nic test with nic.
     
  15. new kid

    new kid Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Interesting about nic vs no nic. I have heard this before. I have ordered different flavors from different vendors 3 times now with 0mg, 6mg, and 12mg. The only difference is the color. This way they were all mixed at the same time and (likely) by the same person with the same ingredients. Never been able to detect a difference. I am religious about steeping as well, so anything I get sits for 2 weeks. I know how much time affects flavor and typically it is positive for me.

    After a year and a half of vaping i settled on a REO with cotton wicked micro-coil RBA's which beats for me beats I tried in vapor and flavor production (I've tired a lot). It brings out flavor something amazing. It will be interesting to try this with my own mixes :)
     
  16. we2rcool

    we2rcool Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Nicotine has a taste - depending upon the vendor, it can be very strong (or not). Makers of e-juices *know their nic* - and it is commonly known that zero nic juices require less flavoring that juices with higher nicotine (to achieve the same flavor). A vendors flavor at zero nic may taste the same as the same flavor at 24mg nic...but if they have the same flavor it's almost a surety it's because the one with the higher nic has a higher percentage of flavor (to cover up the flavor of the nic).

    Supposedly there are a couple of nics that are filtered/distilled even further after extraction and are virtually flavorless - but I don't know which ones they are (and they're probably ultra pricey).

    In fact, there a quite a few vapers that prefer to vape "unflavored" because it tastes similar to a cigarette. The Wizard Labs nic we have right now is excellent for enhancing tobacco flavors.
     
  17. rasmith1959

    rasmith1959 Super Member ECF Veteran

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    Ya'll have forgotten to give this guy the most important tip! Get yourself a notebook and pencil and make notes on everything that you do. Don't try to "remember" things, write it down! It would suck big time if you created this awesome juice, but couldn't remember what you did to make it.


    Sent from my Nexus 7 (2013) using Tapatalk 4.
     
  18. new kid

    new kid Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    That's something I never thought of before - flavoring differences to adjust for nic. Interesting and makes sense.
     
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