Vapocolypse

[Rossum]

Guns = 2nd Ammendment
Nicotine = They ought to write an Ammendment..

They did. The 10th. But they just ignore it.

 

[skoony]

It's about how it's presented and sold.

Oh, I see. Not such things as batteries,wicking material,flavorings,coil wire,
PG and or VG. No problem then.
Regards
Mike

 

[CMD-Ky]

Guns = 2nd Ammendment
Nicotine = They ought to write an Ammendment..

To Guns, I would add the NRA which is rich, loud and involved at every governmental level.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Yes I studied government also, & yes I know where bills, laws ,regulations differ from each other. I know how our government is supposed to work. I do not trust it to work that way at all. If it worked the way it should, FEMA would not be in possesion of billions of rounds of ammunition, the border patrol would not be blocked from arresting & deporting illeagle aliens, Obama could not threaten gun ownership by private citizens with an exutive order.
The government will do whatever they want & worry about how to placate the people later. Probably give them a new Obama phone.

The govt isn't in charge.
We are.
The sooner you realize this the better.
The media tries to convince you otherwise, but you have the power.
You can even throw a politician out of office.
Ask Gray Davis.

 

[beckdg]

Good lord, are this many people really unaware of how your Goverment works?
No wonder we are in this mess.

I don't think so.

For example, one person you're at odds with is a retired judge. Pretty sure he has a slight grasp.

I just think more people are aware how our government works when it's people have atrophied into the disdain that leads to acceptance of what's to come in lieu of them getting off their lazy tuffs and making things happen than there are people willing to copy, paste and send an email let alone call their representatives and/or show up at local meetings.

So, yes, exactly... no wonder we're in this mess.

Tapatyped

 

[Butch]

The govt isn't in charge.
We are.
The sooner you realize this the better.
The media tries to convince you otherwise, but you have the power.
You can even throw a politician out of office.
Ask Gray Davis.

I stand by what I said & add anyone who trusts our government to do the right thing, will be sadly disappointed.

 

[Bad Ninja]

To Guns, I would add the NRA which is rich, loud and involved at every governmental level.

"Shall not be infringed".

Our founding fathers were very smart men.

I stand by what I said & add anyone who trusts our government to do the right thing, will be sadly disappointed.

Trust has nothing to do with it.
I really don't trust anyone. Especially the government.
lol

I don't think so.

For example, one person you're at odds with is a retired judge. Pretty sure he has a slight grasp.

I just think more people are aware how our government works when it's people have atrophied into the disdain that leads to acceptance of what's to come in lieu of them getting off their lazy tuffs and making things happen than there are people willing to copy, paste and send an email let alone call their representatives and/or show up at local meetings.

So, yes, exactly... no wonder we're in this mess.

Tapatyped

Retired judge?


Kinda drives my point home now doesn't it?

 

[beckdg]

The govt isn't in charge.
We are.
The sooner you realize this the better.
The media tries to convince you otherwise, but you have the power.
You can even throw a politician out of office.
Ask Gray Davis.

Well...

The sooner they realize, the sooner we can take charge.

Again, the state of atrophy by most citizens on most topics affords the government the power.

The criminal establishments they employ "in the name of our safety" create the facade of all powerful to those that despite being forced to go to school and learn better, don't know better.

Which then lends them such power... by the atrophy of citizens.

Most (as shown loud and clear here) give up the fight before they're even contenders.

Most have opinions solely by what's spoon fed to them by the media.

I've not met one person face to face that could tell me what was written in any bill they were actively and loudly whining about.

Hell if they won't mouth off for hours about television terms such as left vs right, tea party, bipartisanship, etc.

But they haven't the faintest clue the first word written in the bill they have the fullest opinion on.

We've gone from grass fed, free roaming, hard working, free citizens to monkey sheeple being spoon fed our opinions by the propaganda machine as a society.

Tapatyped

 

[englishmick]

I've read some of the links, and tried understanding what is going on with the proposed legislation.
Basically, am i going to have to start DIY'ing? Because, honestly, i really don't want to go there. I'm leery of buying litres of anything, not to mention having to buy an extra freezer. Will i not be able to just buy any juice? Or is the US just proposing to tax the juice.
Or will i have to just buy vg at Wally World, and vape on that while i chomp on Nicotrol? I am really confused. And even my cats won't come anywhere near what passes for 'cooking' @ my house. Please advise

Unfortunately one quite likely outcome of what's going on is that the only permitted hardware will be non-refillable.

In that case, there might be untold millions of tanks already out there, but no new ones being sold, and no premade coils. And those tanks would be dependent on power supplies that would mostly not last long. Spinners might last a couple of years. Chips fail. Threads and switches wear out. People would give up on it, and not many new people would come along to replace them because it would be difficult and expensive and involve the black market. Long term there would be a rapidly declining market for juice. It could be death by attrition for juice rather than outright banning.

Even if hardware and juice are still permitted for sale by the Feds, State taxes and restrictions are almost guaranteed on both.

A box freezer big enough for a lifetime supply of juice costs around $150 and fits under your desk. That's around what you might pay for 10 bottles of cheap juice. For the cost of another 20 bottles you could fill it with nicotine. If you want to safeguard your ability to go on vaping long term it seems like the way to go.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Well...

The sooner they realize, the sooner we can take charge.

Again, the state of atrophy by most citizens on most topics affords the government the power.

The criminal establishments they employ "in the name of our safety" create the facade of all powerful to those that despite being forced to go to school and learn better, don't know better.

Which then lends them such power... by the atrophy of citizens.

Most (as shown loud and clear here) give up the fight before they're even contenders.

Most have opinions solely by what's spoon fed to them by the media.

I've not met one person face to face that could tell me what was written in any bill they were actively and loudly whining about.

Hell if they won't mouth off for hours about television terms such as left vs right, tea party, bipartisanship, etc.

But they haven't the faintest clue the first word written in the bill they have the fullest opinion on.

We've gone from grass fed, free roaming, hard working, free citizens to monkey sheeple being spoon fed our opinions by the propaganda machine as a society.

Tapatyped

I'm with ya.
They know we are in charge that's why they try so hard to convince us otherwise.

The media call them elects leaders.
We do not elect leaders.
We elect representatives of the will of the people.
It doesn't matter what they want, they are elected to do what We want.
Doing otherwise is contrary to their office, and their constituents should wake up and hold them accountable.

But you are right. Apathy has allowed a criminal element to rise within our Government.
It won't end until people wake up.

 

[jbnuke]

I just think its really not that big of

Well...

The sooner they realize, the sooner we can take charge.

Again, the state of atrophy by most citizens on most topics affords the government the power.

The criminal establishments they employ "in the name of our safety" create the facade of all powerful to those that despite being forced to go to school and learn better, don't know better.

Which then lends them such power... by the atrophy of citizens.

Most (as shown loud and clear here) give up the fight before they're even contenders.

Most have opinions solely by what's spoon fed to them by the media.

I've not met one person face to face that could tell me what was written in any bill they were actively and loudly whining about.

Hell if they won't mouth off for hours about television terms such as left vs right, tea party, bipartisanship, etc.

But they haven't the faintest clue the first word written in the bill they have the fullest opinion on.

We've gone from grass fed, free roaming, hard working, free citizens to monkey sheeple being spoon fed our opinions by the propaganda machine as a society.

Tapatyped

I have liberal and conservative news feeds just for entertainment... i find it hilarious how much people latch onto stuff and make it seem like if this happens or that happens, the world as we know it will end.

 

[crxess]

Maybe I should have accepted the invitation to the Ag Center from Congressman Delaney..........And VAPED!

I blew the invite off as Political shuffling when he ignored me E-mails about Vaping in general and about HR2058.

Should he venture into this county again, I'll have to get his attention.

@VNeil - You are giving me a headache. I have personal feelings things will get tougher, but I am NOT letting Crystal Balls control my belief as to exactly what the end result will be.

Regulation of use and Taxation Are not the same.

Federal Bills Would Substantially Increase Tobacco Taxes and Allow New Taxes on Electronic Cigarettes — Troutman Sanders Tobacco Team

 

[VNeil]

Maybe I should have accepted the invitation to the Ag Center from Congressman Delaney..........And VAPED!

I blew the invite off as Political shuffling when he ignored me E-mails about Vaping in general and about HR2058.

Should he venture into this county again, I'll have to get his attention.

@VNeil - You are giving me a headache. I have personal feelings things will get tougher, but I am NOT letting Crystal Balls control my belief as to exactly what the end result will be.

Regulation of use and Taxation Are not the same.

Federal Bills Would Substantially Increase Tobacco Taxes and Allow New Taxes on Electronic Cigarettes — Troutman Sanders Tobacco Team

Then take some aspirin. Regulations and taxation are not the same but they are both imminent. I'm not sure why people want to argue by diving into minutia. Try to look at the Big Picture. For a peek at the Future Is Now, take a look at the Georgia legislation thread. How much evidence do people need?

Looks like Georgia is gonna be Indiana'd

And interestingly, I have numerous times said I am not predicting the future. Just observing clearly what gov't intends to do or wants to do, and assume the worst because it is likely to happen. That isn't a crystal ball, that is just simple observation. What they want: about a 100% tax rate, comparable to cigarettes, whose taxes rise even further every year. And ideally closed systems only, which is far easier to tax. Every gov't sponsored "study", every negative media puff piece, every state and local regulation, makes that clear even if their desire to stamp out open systems vaping is not obvious yet. Gov't usually works by taking regular small steps to get where they want to go. That way, the victims can breath small sighs of relief at each step, saying "that wasn't so bad was it?".

That Georgia thread is scary because it isn't the expected small first step. It is sweeping legislation that could, depending on how you interpret semicolons, or doubt that OR means OR, criminalize even DIY. It could even put every vape shop in Georgia out of business by making them all manufacturers, with impossible standards to meet, even if they do no mixing at all. And no matter how big that first step, even if it's a giant leap, it is never the last step when gov't sets its mind to something.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Then take some aspirin. Regulations and taxation are not the same but they are both imminent. I'm not sure why people want to argue by diving into minutia. Try to look at the Big Picture. For a peek at the Future Is Now, take a look at the Georgia legislation thread. How much evidence do people need?

Looks like Georgia is gonna be Indiana'd

And interestingly, I have numerous times said I am not predicting the future. Just observing clearly what gov't intends to do or wants to do, and assume the worst because it is likely to happen. That isn't a crystal ball, that is just simple observation. What they want: about a 100% tax rate, comparable to cigarettes, whose taxes rise even further every year. And ideally closed systems only, which is far easier to tax. Every gov't sponsored "study", every negative media puff piece, every state and local regulation, makes that clear even if their desire to stamp out open systems vaping is not obvious yet. Gov't usually works by taking regular small steps to get where they want to go. That way, the victims can breath small sighs of relief at each step, saying "that wasn't so bad was it?".

That Georgia thread is scary because it isn't the expected small first step. It is sweeping legislation that could, depending on how you interpret semicolons, or doubt that OR means OR, criminalize even DIY. It could even put every vape shop in Georgia out of business by making them all manufacturers, with impossible standards to meet, even if they do no mixing at all. And no matter how big that first step, even if it's a giant leap, it is never the last step when gov't sets its mind to something.

I'm from Georgia.
Georgia is one of the top 3 tobacco farming states in the USA.

Big tobacco owns the state and has for as long as there has been a United States of America.

That bill sucks but it doesn't outlaw DIY.
From the GA bill:
110 (17) 'Manufacture' means the process by which an e-liquid is mixed, bottled, packaged,
111 and stored for introduction into commerce.


FYI most states historically don't follow in Georgia's footsteps.
Lol

 

[VNeil]

I'm from Georgia.
Georgia is one of the top 3 tobacco farming states in the USA.

Big tobacco owns the state and has for as long as there has been a United States of America.

That bill sucks but it doesn't outlaw DIY.
From the GA bill:
110 (17) 'Manufacture' means the process by which an e-liquid is mixed, bottled, packaged,
111 and stored for introduction into commerce.


FYI most states historically don't follow in Georgia's footsteps.
Lol

That bill was modeled from the Indiana law. Last I heard, Indiana is not a big tobacco state. And just like Georgia modeled their law from Indiana's, but adding salt to the wound, the next state will model Georgia's law and add their own flavor of salt.

If Georgia can get that passed it will become the model of how to put vape shops out of business and get vaping solidly into the existing tobacco tax collection scheme.

Why do you insist on throwing out straw man arguments and red herrings? The definition of a manufacturer has nothing to do with DIY. However, you failed to acknowledge the definition of a manufacturing facility:

114 (19) 'Manufacturing facility' means any building, plant, factory, warehouse,
115 establishment, or other premises in this state at which any manufacturing, distributing,
116 or retailing is conducted.

So for sure retailers will be tagged as manufacturers even if they never handle open bottles of eLiquid. Or distributors that might act as middleman. But that has nothing to do with DIY either...

195 (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to mix, bottle, package, or sell e-liquid in this state
196 without having first obtained a manufacturing license from the Commissioner."

That sounds pretty clear to me and I don't see anything above it even implying that "any person" does not mean anyone, including DIYers.

There is additional language criminalizing any sharing of liquids, regardless of who made it. Sharing could even includes spouses and adult children.

If your friend Joe gives you a bottle of eLiquid that he made, or perhaps purchased on the internet, you are subject to criminal prosecution...

602 (b) A person shall not knowingly receive or acquire any e-liquid from a person that does
603 not hold a valid license under this chapter.

 

[Bad Ninja]

That bill was modeled from the Indiana law. Last I heard, Indiana is not a big tobacco state. And just like Georgia modeled their law from Indiana's, but adding salt to the wound, the next state will model Georgia's law and add their own flavor of salt.

If Georgia can get that passed it will become the model of how to put vape shops out of business and get vaping solidly into the existing tobacco tax collection scheme.

Why do you insist on throwing out straw man arguments and red herrings? The definition of a manufacturer has nothing to do with DIY. However, you failed to acknowledge the definition of a manufacturing facility:

114 (19) 'Manufacturing facility' means any building, plant, factory, warehouse,
115 establishment, or other premises in this state at which any manufacturing, distributing,
116 or retailing is conducted.

So for sure retailers will be tagged as manufacturers even if they never handle open bottles of eLiquid. Or distributors that might act as middleman. But that has nothing to do with DIY either...

195 (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to mix, bottle, package, or sell e-liquid in this state
196 without having first obtained a manufacturing license from the Commissioner."

That sounds pretty clear to me and I don't see anything above it even implying that "any person" does not mean anyone, including DIYers.

There is additional language criminalizing any sharing of liquids, regardless of who made it. Sharing could even includes spouses and adult children.

If your friend Joe gives you a bottle of eLiquid that he made, or perhaps purchased on the internet, you are subject to criminal prosecution...

602 (b) A person shall not knowingly receive or acquire any e-liquid from a person that does
603 not hold a valid license under this chapter.

You are all over the place.

You are also misinterpreting what you are reading.

I cannot have a intelligent conversation with you about the law when you keep jumping to a "future" predictions and guesses, bouncing from state to federal laws, ignoring legal procedure, and making wild assumptions.

 

[VNeil]

You are all over the place.

You are also misinterpreting what you are reading.

I cannot have a intelligent conversation with you about the law when you keep jumping to a "future" predictions and guesses, bouncing from state to federal laws, ignoring legal procedure, and making wild assumptions.

Really? Tell me exactly what I am misinterpreting or how I am jumping all over the place?

What part of " It shall be unlawful for any person to mix, bottle, package, or sell e-liquid in this state
196 without having first obtained a manufacturing license from the Commissioner." am I misinterpreting?????

Do you really believe "any person" doesn't really mean me or you, but just those other guys? I can't believe the inane arguments some people make. Do we really have to argue the interpretation of "any person"????

 

[englishmick]

2 FT of 1/8 inch delrin rod.
Insulators for 100+ RDAs for under $6

Amazon.com: Acetal Copolymer Round Rod, Opaque Black, Standard Tolerance, ASTM D6778: Industrial & Scientific

I looked up Peek. Expensive stuff. But you can get a 3" by 3" by 1/4" sample for $12. That would be good for a few insulators.

PEEK SHEET - NATURAL - 3x3x0.500

 

[Bad Ninja]

I looked up Peek. Expensive stuff. But you can get a 3" by 3" by 1/4" sample for $12. That would be good for a few insulators.

PEEK SHEET - NATURAL - 3x3x0.500

2ft 1/4 inch rod for $10.88

Peek Rod | PEEK Unfilled Natural, .250in DIA. X 24in Long Rod | Plastics International

 

[jbnuke]

The worlds gonna end!!!!!!!!!!
They gonna put us all in jail!!!!! They going to kill a billion dollar industry!!!!!!
We all gonna be Criminals!!!!!
Ok did i cover it all?