Why has no lab tested the E cigs???

Discussion in 'Organizations with the Ability to Listen' started by dale5671, Jul 6, 2010.

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  1. dale5671

    dale5671 Full Member

    Jun 28, 2010
    indiana usa
    With all the controversy, why has NOBODY done a full lab test of the safety and side effects of the e cig, and the pg vg juices. It just doesn't make sense. These have been out a few years now. I mean they tested cigarettes with smoking machines, isn't there anyone out there that will test these?????????????????????????????????
  2. sanfordf

    sanfordf Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 28, 2010
    Northern San Diego county
    There have been tests by the FDA. The FDA tests are not very favorable towards e-cigs.
    As you explore more of the other areas at ECF. You'll find the forums that talk about this issue and a lot more. Much, much more. And off site please check out yvillas post below for the casaa.org link for non-FDA biased information.
  3. yvilla

    yvilla Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 18, 2008
    Rochester, NY
    It sounds like you've been snowed by all the lies being publicized about ecigs. Here are a whole bunch of studies:


    And that's not even all of them.
  4. JerryRM

    JerryRM ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Nov 10, 2009
    With Friends
    The lies are getting worse yvilla. Did you know that there is not only "anti-freeze" but also "windshield washer fluid" in e-liquid? Also e-cigs users are smoking dope, in order to get high in airplanes?:facepalm::mad:

    The lies are getting so ridiculous, they are becoming laughable to those of us who know differently. Unfortunately, those who don't know differently, believe anything that is said by so called "reputable" groups and organizations.:(
  5. warlike36

    warlike36 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 13, 2010
    I see a fellow hoosier...yes,when Billions of dollars are at stake.... Nothing surprises me..
  6. Lorizgal

    Lorizgal Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 21, 2010
    Really near the mexican border.
    good question, I am wondering that myself.
  7. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    What if a Good study came out and found that e-Cig were harmless? Wouldn't Big tobacco have a fit? Can have the analog makers going broke now can we.

    But what would happen if the study found that they were harmfull? Then the Fed and State governments couldn't regulate and tax them without fear of lawsuits.

    It's kinda a "Catch 22" situation for both sides. For and Against.

    Remember: There is Big money to be Gained and Big money to be Lost. No one wants to rush into anything quickly just yet.
  8. Webby

    Webby Moved On ECF Veteran

    Mar 31, 2009
    I believe Kristin wrote a piece called "Top Ten E-Cigarette Myths" or something similar. Perhaps it needs it's own thread and FAQ Sticky?
  9. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    Funny that everyone quotes the antifreeze thing. I first saw it in the FDA report. They need to qualify that statement with some other food products. Sunbeam Premium Snow Cone Syrup (made in Florida) and sold at Kmart lists propylene glycol as an ingredient. So, does that mean that kids on playgrounds have antifreeze in their snow cones? Sheesh!
  10. Vocalek

    Vocalek CASAA Activist ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 7, 2009
    Springfield, VA
    Dave: FDA was referring to diethylene glycol as "an ingredient found in antifreeze", not the propylene glycol.

    FDA and Public Health Experts Warn About Electronic Cigarettes
    (Emhapsis added).

    PG is listed as an ingredient in e-cigarette liquids, and the FDA did not take issue at all with PG. We don't know how DEG turned up in 1 of 18 cartridges tested. DEG is used as a humectant to keep tobacco moist. The nicotine in e-cig liquid is extracted from tobacco. Maybe that's how the DEG got in there. On the other hand, the Chinese have been known to dilute PG with DEG (DEG apparently costs less?), which has caused deaths and injuries in other countries as a result of consumption of DEG through cough syrups and acetaminophen syrup. So perhaps a little DEG crept into the PG the company was using to manufacture the e-cigarette liquid. Another possibility is that the FDA lab made a mistake. We just don't know.

    What we do know is this:

    The quantity of DEG in the liquid is mega-levels below the amount that could cause illness. At 1% of 1 ml., it would take consumption of about a gallon of "smoke juice" for a 150 pound person to reach the minimal risk level dosage of 0.8 mg/kg/day -- but that's assuming that all the DEG makes it into your body.

    No lab has ever found any DEG in the vapor.
  11. Vocalek

    Vocalek CASAA Activist ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 7, 2009
    Springfield, VA
    Regarding research conducted to date:

    The link above that Yvilla provided will take you to a page that contains numerous lab tests on the liquid, and one on the vapor.

    Health New Zealand has also studied the vapor and pronounced it "harmless, inhaled or exhaled." Ecigarette mist harmless, inhaled or exhaled

    After the FDA came out with its accusations of carcinogens (TSNAs), NJOY had tests conducted on the vapor (because after all, folks don't drink the liquid). That testing determined that only one of the TSNAs that FDA found in the liquid can be found in the vapor, and that particular type of TSNA is not carcinogenic! You can read a copy of the test here. http://www.casaa.org/files/Study_TSNAs_in_NJOY_Vapor.pdf

    So all the toxicology testing that we have to date shows no toxins and no carcinogens in the vapor.

    Only brief tests have been conducted on human subjects. Keep in mind that testing that involves humans tends to be quite expensive, and the longer the study, the more expensive. But more pertinent is the fact that any testing that involves humans must be approved by an Institutional Review Board (IRB) to ensure the safety of the subjects. That doesn't preclude a researcher from conducting such tests, but his results would never be approved for publication in a peer-reviewed medical journal.

    Health New Zealand randomized crossover trial: http://www.healthnz.co.nz/2010 Bullen ECig.pdf

    Virginia Commonwealth University, T. Eissenberg: Electronic nicotine delivery devices: ineffective nicotine delivery and craving suppression after acute administration -- Eissenberg 19 (1): 87 -- Tobacco Control

    Comment to the VCU-Eissenberg article: Replies to Electronic nicotine delivery devices: ineffective nicotine delivery and craving suppression after acute administration

    Another type of research is surveys. To date, two surveys of electronic cigarette users have been published.

    This University of Alberta survey report was orginally published as a working paper on the Tobacco Harm Reduction web site: http://tobaccoharmreduction.org/wpapers/011v1.pdf

    It was added to this book as Chapter 19: THR2010. (tobaccoharmreduction.org)

    Jean-Franxois Etter's survey: BioMed Central | Full text | Electronic cigarettes: a survey of users

    Etter is in the process of compiling responses to a survey that had 1500 participants as the goal. We have a link to Etter's new survey posted here on ECF, along with a link to a survey that Kristin put together for CASAA. If most folks responded to both surveys, then judging from the number of CASAA responses Etter had more than 2,000 responses to his new survey.
  12. AvatarIII

    AvatarIII Full Member

    Jul 5, 2010
    West Sussex UK
    to be honest, from what research i have done, there have been plenty of tests done on e-cigs and e-liquid, most of which show no problems at all, and the only other way to know exactly how safe e cigs are are human trials, which have been going on in nearly every user of this forums home for a long time, years in some cases, and no-one has dropped dead yet right?

    but it is difficult to say, since how many smokers die within the first few years of smoking? not many. but the facts speak for themselves, vapers feel healthier than smokers.
    will a vaper live as long as a non-smoker? possibly not.
    will a vaper live longer than a smoker? its extremely likely.
  13. Captu4ik

    Captu4ik Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Feb 17, 2010
    Puerto Cabezas, Nicaragua
    DEG has shown up in cheap VG. I would bet (if, in fact, it was really there at all) that the Chinese used non-USP grade Glycerin, and that was the source of the DEG.

    Just my $.02 ...
  14. Janetda

    Janetda Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 24, 2009
    Orange County, CA
    You should all be aware at this point that the Vapers Coalition is raising funds for the IVAQS study too. This study will use smoke machines to access air quality issues pertaining to e-cigarettes. That is to say, second-hand vaper. We would all do well to donate as much as possible to this cause. This study will give us the ammunition we need when talking with legislators about the indoor vaping bans are sure to be heading our way.

    It's also important to know that the NVC has previously submitted two different studies for Internal Review Board (IRB) consideration (necessary for all human subject studies), but both of those were quashed by the FDA before the IRB even had a chance to review them, claiming that that FDA considers nicotine to be a drug and therefore we cannot test it. That would be one of the reasons there are no human tests available. The FDA has put us in a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' position.
  15. kanadiankat

    kanadiankat Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Oct 14, 2010
    Alberta, Canada
    My 2 cents - why should human tests be necessary? Eliquid is NOT a drug. Except for the nicotine - all ingredients are over the counter - food or USP grade. Nicotine in larger quantities than eliquid is also over the counter, already tested and approved.

    I'd have to agree with Dr. C. Phillips (tobacco harm reduction) - this is a purely political issue. Until the Canadian and US governments make plans for alternative streams of revenue to replace tobacco taxes - this political giant will roar and growl and make everyone afraid.
  16. SimpleSins

    SimpleSins Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 18, 2010
    SW Iowa
    You have to keep in mind that many of the ingredients are not tested and approved for the use of vaping and, in fact, there are a couple ingredients that would probably raise a red flag on their own. I think the PG and the nicotine are the only two that have any extensive testing as far as inhalation goes. With that in mind, though, you would think that it would be simple enough for the FDA to treat them a base liquid of PG and nicotine as a tobacco product and tax it as they see fit without it having to go through prolonged clinical trials.
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