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Why is Ejuice so Expensive$$$$

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid' started by mwa102464, Jun 25, 2010.

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  1. mwa102464

    mwa102464 ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
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    Outside of the Philadelphia Burbs, NJ & Fla
    I would just like to know why Ejuice is so expensive, it seems to me that I have been making some very good DIY juices and my cost is somewheres around .25 on the high side per ML. This would be around $6-8 for 30ml's of juice, yet I see everyone selling juice from anywhere from $15-$25 per 30ml's. I also see more and more people starting juice companies these days as well as selling carto's which is telling me that money is being made for sure but does juice have to be this expensive people ( personally I don't think so ). I have no problem spending money or backing a good business and do, lots of them. Its just that if your a heavy vapor like I then it would make lots of sense to DIY and pay $5-$7 for 30ML's of juice

    I know I'm gonna get many of people here tell me all about the different cost involved in making the juice and how good some of it is, and I dont disagree on how good some of it is because it is good real good and I do buy some of it from vendors. Making my own DIY has gotten really good per my own taste buds & thats all that counts for my own personal juice that I vape. After having a ton of bottles laying around one would only have to purchase a small amount of DIY supplies to mix there own juices. I'm not going to go on and on here but with scubadans calc and some other good recipes that are out these days I'm sticking with my own DIY its awesome and it's cheap and I know whats in it.!!!

    Want to share what you have made.???

    Some positive thoughts on what others think and recipies they make would be great to see in this thread.

    Thanks:p
     
  2. Mr.Self_Destruct

    Mr.Self_Destruct Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Location:
    Queens, NY
    I need to start making my own juice.
     
  3. mwa102464

    mwa102464 ECF Guru ECF Veteran

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    Oct 14, 2009
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    Outside of the Philadelphia Burbs, NJ & Fla
    Indeed Bert
     
  4. Orion

    Orion Super Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2010
    Location:
    Central Florida
    I know, I think it's outrageous too. But just like any other form of business some product have a higher margin of profit and those businesses use that to make up for the products they make squat on.

    I worked in a gas station when I was around 20 and I had to print the reports every week and it got me to start asking questions out of curiosity.

    We made a killing on milk & grocery items, but 20oz sodas? yeah, if someone stole one, we had to sell like 50 more to make the money back because the profit margin was literally a couple cents in the store I worked at.
     
  5. Nikhil

    Nikhil Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    Skilled (usually) labor. Chinese factory liquid is cheap.
     
  6. Hoosier

    Hoosier Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Location:
    Indiana
    Did you figure paying yourself a fair wage for the time you have in mixing? For us it is a hobby. We're not trying to make a living out of it.

    McD's has less than $0.20 in material cost for a burger they sell for $1.00. Because they are so big, the material costs are lower and because they are so big they need that 5x to cover overhead. The $1 burgers don't make them money, that comes from the usual add-on items.

    Figure it up. Say you need about $20 an hour to make a living. Let's add in some health care, liability insurance, property insurance, self employment tax, income tax, inventory tax, property tax, or to make it simple, double your $20/hr to $40 to pay for all this other stuff.

    How long does it take you to mix a batch of 30ml? Don't forget the setup and clean up time and throw a bit on there for all the experiments you've done. Multiply that by $40, how is your cost now? Now add a bit for profit so your business can grow because a business that doesn't grow dies very quickly.

    The costs for premade juice don't seem too far out of line when you put all the factors into it.

    Yep, I buy juice and make my own. More my own than premade. I prefer mine. It's also fun. It's a hobby. I like it a bunch. I've also sold off the businesses I used to own because I hated the paperwork and the feeling that every government agency had a sucker attached to my nipple and/or posterior.

    If I calculate my DIY jucie cost by only the materials in what I am vaping, it's cheap. If I add all my costs for equipment, flavors, and dumped experiments, it's not cheap, but that isn't the point of DIY anyway. It gets cheaper as time goes on, but like any hobby there is the startup phase that is a bit more expensive.

    My favorite vape is my Cuban Cigar. Tastes just like the real thing. Materials come from 5 different vendors and I had 30 dumps before I got it right. (26 before I got real close) It is my go-to vape and just based off material alone is less than 20 cents/ml, but I'm going to have to vape many batches before my total costs into it come down to 20 cents/ml... I am getting close already though so all the dumped juice was worth it.

    It is much like cooking, good fun, but not for everyone.
     
  7. mwa102464

    mwa102464 ECF Guru ECF Veteran

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    Hoosier,

    Sounds like you have it down, good story Pal. To answer your question though. it takes me 10 min now to mix my daily Vape. I dont always work and I have free time so this is a thing I do in my free time, when working im billing at a rate of $250 an hour, my point is I dont think people have to figure in a labor rate for do it yourselfers, you dont charge yourself to vape (right) so i just dont figure in my time to Mix simply because work is work, play is play and this is all play for sure. I really think that posting a recipies thread is right on tract. This would help out everyone bigtime and it would only take minutes to make a bottle if your set up correctly and try other peoples DIY.

    Would you be willing to post your Cuban recipie, sounds like a winner buddy I would like to try it.
     
  8. Switched

    Switched ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010
    Location:
    Dartmouth, NS Canada
    LOL

    ... at $250/hr you can afford to buy commercially made liquids.

    DIY is not cheap contrary to popular belief, commercial entities even more so. Now I am not going to deny that there are juice vendors out there that indeed are using their kitchen table for mixing liquids, and there are others that have quite a set up, and those are not cheap.

    Rolling your own IMHO is more for consistency with flavours than anything else, because the initial outlay is anything but cheap. I am not defending vendors but perhaps your expectations are a little off.

    I stocked up because of the possible all points ban. I make my own liquid but I am not even close to seeing $0.20/ml, when flavouring is $1/ml.

    To compound the problem, flavourings have the same shelf life as their carriers 18-24 months then, they start to brake down and must be tossed. Add to that the costs of seized or returned shipments, and well it all adds up.

    Speaking of recipes, there is an entire sub section dedicated for exactly that.

    E-liquid Recipes - E-Cigarette Forum

    Edit: Check out the Buttery Nipple recipe, no charge ;)
     
  9. Hoosier

    Hoosier Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Location:
    Indiana
    Thanks for the offer, but I suspect my Cuban Cigar recipe will stay in the family like my Christmas Cheeseball, fudge, and Slick'ems.

    Some things are special.
     
  10. mwa102464

    mwa102464 ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Location:
    Outside of the Philadelphia Burbs, NJ & Fla
    Switched,

    I can afford to do a lot of things and I do, as well as afford to do a lot of things I dont. I'm just into making my own DIY, nothing wrong with that right, especially if it's going into my system, I like the fact that I know exactly what I'm vaping since there is know regulation yet and think its really a blast to mix my own and love doing so.

    It's one of those past time things for me when I'm sitting around with some spare time I mix a batch. Thats a good philosophy on the .20 but when you buy in bulk like I am you can do it for that maybe .25 to the moon for me. Seeing supplies last 18-24 like you say thats plenty of time to use what I'm buying, plenty. I'm also buying all, all of my supplies right here in the USA so no risk of any seizures happening at all. Im fact Levy over at Extremevaping.com has some very good nic juice of the best quality found yet by myslf, yes it comes from China but im buying it here in the sates from him

    I guess it's all in the educated buyer and DIY mixer what there final cost is per ML of juice and can depend on what there making and how. Even if it where double the .20 @ .40 that would still only be $12 for 30ml's of juice, pretty cheap. As far as original layout well thats really not that much for me, no biggie since I will be at this probably for a long long time maybe the rest of my life I enjoy vaping so much. So bottom line is ya even at .25 DIY it's very cheap and the juice I'm making is really good, love it.

    As you say I get to add all the flavoring I want and can keep it consistently great. Lastly, I know there is a dedicated sub forum for recipes, however many people on ECF stay on the new post threads and suppliers forum so I'm looking for those people to come out and let us know what there doing on there own with DIY, this is a DIY thread where im posting therefor the perfect place for this.



    Hoosier,

    You sound like you have an awesome family, Holidays must be very traditional at your house and a tasteful time for sure. Cuban Cigar is a great vape buddy.( Still want that recipe of yours ) Keep making your own buddy and have a great weekend.

    Anyone mixing DIY join in let us know what your brewing at home these days.!!
     
  11. Switched

    Switched ECF Guru ECF Veteran

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    Wrong! all recipes find their way via moderation to the link I provided :)
     
  12. cliff5550

    cliff5550 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    Location:
    West Central Illinois - USA
    Those of us who can, DIY. Those of us who can't, buy.
    Cheaper to change your own oil but I'd rather pay the guy to do it.
     
  13. Orion

    Orion Super Member ECF Veteran

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    Feb 23, 2010
    Location:
    Central Florida
    LOL!!! I agree on the oil change part. And yeah there's plenty I'm sure that can't DIY. I've become the DIYer for my whole family. When I try to teach them I get a blank look that is priceless and has me feeling superior for all of two seconds before someone knocks me into me place ;).

    I'm with the others who stated it's more of a hobby/interest in creating consistent flavor. I have in no way, shape or form broken even on my initial and still growing investment in DIY.
     
  14. Switched

    Switched ECF Guru ECF Veteran

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    ... and that is basically my feelings as well.
     
  15. ryanmercer

    ryanmercer Full Member

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    Speedway, IN
    +1 on that post, and hi fellow Hoosier!
     
  16. mwa102464

    mwa102464 ECF Guru ECF Veteran

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    Mine too, nice to hear we agree on that switched, it is a cool pastime thing to do, I still buy from some vendors as I said in my original post but dam making some Juice while sitting around is a cool thing and sometimes I know I even surprise myself. It's good to know all recipes go to that thread via the mods Switched thats a good thing if thats how it works.
     
  17. boochips

    boochips Super Member ECF Veteran

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    Aug 6, 2009
    Location:
    Marianna, Florida
    I have been making my own menthol since last summer. I believe I have saved a TON of money. I even make it for my best friend and my sister. We are all former menthol smokers. Instead of them paying me for it, I just have them take turns buying the unflavored nic juice for me and I supply the rest of the mix. This makes it really cheap for me. :p
     
  18. sailorman

    sailorman Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Location:
    The Florida Oil Coast
    I'd give you a +1 for this post, but I have to take 1/2 of it away for the first bolded paragraph.and 1/4 for the second.

    McD's has tremendous economies of scale and leverage over suppliers that keeps their raw material costs down. Their profits on each employee hour is enormous, even if all they sold was value meals. Their sheer volume of sales and enormous franchise fee structure ensures that they do make money on that $1 hamburger even if the franchise owner doesn't. But they make even more on the coke and fries they sell to the local McD's franchisee. Their overhead is 3x higher than it needs to be because they pay enormous executive salaries and tens of millions for advertising and marketing to go with the corporate jets, real-estate, palatial offices, six figure bonuses, expense accounts (that exceed the entire payroll of a typical franchisee), stockholder dividends, corporate lobbying, nine figure PR budgets, etc., etc, etc.,. Nearly all of which is tax deductible, I might add. Now do you get an idea of why their overhead is so high?

    As for insurance, their size ensures that they pay far less than you or I do for each dollar of potential loss. And although McD's might pay corporate income tax, they are almost an exception. Around 1/2 of the largest U.S. corporations paid absolutely zero corporate income taxes in 2008. In fact, one small office, about 2000 s.f., in Bermuda is the registered address of 18,000 U.S. corporations. As with the wealthiest individuals among us, any corporation that pays a higher rate of taxes than the guy who cleans their bathrooms is too small and/or too stupid. And don't forget all the other corporate welfare schemes, special privileges and tax dodges reserved for large corporations, like property tax abatements, zoning variances and foreign trade assistance, to name but a few.

    You say you sold your businesses due to burdensome gov't regulations and taxes. Well, like hotel magnate Leona Helmsley once said in a burst of candor "Only the little people pay taxes".

    I agree that ejuice makers have a lot of unseen costs and their prices are probably not really out of line at all. But to mention McD in the same breath as any ejuice company, even one like Dakang, is just plain silly.
     
  19. mwa102464

    mwa102464 ECF Guru ECF Veteran

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    Sailorman & Boochips thank you for your replies born against I wish you read the original thread instead of just the title of it then made a post
     
  20. mwa102464

    mwa102464 ECF Guru ECF Veteran

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    Boochips,

    I'm a menthol guy as well and would love to see your recipie if you would like to share that, it would be very nice of you.
     
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