◙ Li’l PINCH (←thang) ◙ pdib (←maker) ◙ not sayin’ (←just sayin’) ◙ shuh-ZAM! (←hyperbole)

[B2L]

It's all about risk/reward and what is your tolerance for risk.

If I stock up (I did and am continuing to) what is the worst that can happen (risk)? I skip eating out a few times and/or have a little less walking around $ and my wife gets a little irritated at the loss of freezer space.

What is the reward? I can vape with virtually no extra cash outlay for the foreseeable future therefore my wife doesn't off me in the event I can't get nicotine any more.

If I don't stock up, what is the risk? Nicotine becomes impossible, or just extremely expensive, to get ahold of, I either go without and face eminent suffocation by spouse during my sleep and/or end up homeless in a refrigerator box under the overpass with my mods and expensive (and likely lower quality) black market nic.

If I don't stock up what is the reward? A few extra dollars in my pocket right now and a good bit more space in my freezer for frozen pot pies.

For me, it's a no brainer.

I won't bore you with the whole glass vs plastic internal debate but it's very similar.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

Let's assume we do manage to beat it. What will happen then? I practically guarantee you they will tax it in an attempt to make up for the revenue they're no longer getting from tobacco. I suppose that's not a big deal if you're OK vaping flavored VG, but it is for those of us who aren't willing to give up our nic.

Sorry for the rant below, I'll limit it to this one post:

IMO Nic is the choke point for us in the worst case vapocalypse scenario, be it availability or taxation. (I see taxation as the most likely problem) Hardware we can make if necessary. (Though for most of us not nearly as awesome as Peter, Cory, et al) Flavorings, VG, PG, wire, wick, batteries, etc will always be available if we look outside the tobacco framework due to their multitude of uses. (We just borrowed those items from much larger consumer markets)

We (Those of us whom are active hobbyists) aren't the ones I feel bad for. It's those smokers like my son whom are just regular guys and gals without the hobbyist bug. I introduced him to vaping and 2 years later he was smoke and vape free.

If the FDA doesn't shut it down ("It" being the vaping that actually works for combustible cessation) then most likely the tax man cometh. (Already happening) States upside down borrowing against future Master Settlement revenue and the campaign to demonize smokers has almost guaranteed this.

I don't plan on paying exorbitant taxes or black market rates. Not for at least 30 years assuming Kurt's extrapolation of nic storage viability with his methods. And if I am wrong about availability and or taxation and America comes to its senses about harm reduction then still no loss as I will be able to PIF.

But as always my belief is "à chacun son goût" as my HS French teacher liked to say, roughly translated "To each his own". Stock up or don't, it's your backyard.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programing

 

[CaptSteve]

As I said guys, I in no way criticize anyone stockpiling Nic, I fully understand your fears. I just feel that as a community we're more preoccupied about how we'll work around the regs as opposed to fight to change them. I say WE because I'm equally guilty for the same behavior.

 

[TamiPac]

As I said guys, I in no way criticize anyone stockpiling Nic, I fully understand your fears. I just feel that as a community we're more preoccupied about how we'll work around the regs as opposed to fight to change them. I say WE because I'm equally guilty for the same behavior.

Probably because we have learned that, unless we want to form a mob and loot a city we are ignored. The crooked politicians can do anything they want with impugnity anymore.

 

[supertrunker]

Banning things only changes the supplier.

As Mundy says, the real damage is the current smokers that may not have the same opportunities to quit as we had, which is a criminal shame.

T

 

[B2L]

As I said guys, I in no way criticize anyone stockpiling Nic, I fully understand your fears. I just feel that as a community we're more preoccupied about how we'll work around the regs as opposed to fight to change them. I say WE because I'm equally guilty for the same behavior.

I agree that both are necessary however... I fear that letter writing, contacting my representatives, responding to CTAs, etc. are woefully inadequate to make a difference in an entrenched system fraught with corruption and cronyism. I'm afraid I know what the answer is and what the implications of that would be...

 

[Rossum]

Banning things only changes the supplier.

It also tends to raise prices rather significantly. Suppliers will certainly exist, but will demand high margins as compensation for the risks they're taking.

 

[Nautilusfan]

Happy Independence Day everyone!!

 

[supertrunker]

It also tends to raise prices rather significantly. Suppliers will certainly exist, but will demand high margins as compensation for the risks they're taking.

That's an interesting area - for instance, if nicotine liquid through taxation ends up costing as much as tobacco, then it's difficult for an organisation like the FDA or CDC to claim that they are interested in harm reduction.

Moreover, a black market that came into existence for the liquid could well operate very effectively against legal constraints, just because very pure nicotine - obviously not the stuff we DIY with now, occupies a small volume and is easier to smuggle.

My opinion is that some of the legal challenges currently underway have a realistic chance of success and may at least force some moderation of the deeming rules.

T

 

[pdib]

You open a Kwikee Mart and may end up selling stuff to children.

probably exactly your point but . . . the fact that the same FDA considers everything in that freezer safe and good for regular consumption by children makes me throw up a little in disgust.

 

[Train2]

But if you stash some nic behind the Eggo Waffles, then the Waffles can be said (due to leeching) to have an effect on the quality of your vape, and therefore, Eggo Waffles (and frozen pizza, and french fries) are TOBACCO PRODUCTS.

probably exactly your point but . . . the fact that the same FDA considers everything in that freezer safe and good for regular consumption by children makes me throw up a little in disgust.

 

[supertrunker]

Reminds me of a bacon flavoured vape i tried once, which was truly disgusting!

T

 

[BobC]

We don't do soda and moreover, we don't have a basement!

That's what ya git livin in TX

 

[TamiPac]

That's what ya git livin in TX

True Dat!

 

[BobC]

If I have a tub of vanilla ice cream in the deep freeze, and an orange juice concentrate . . .. will I get orange ice cream?


. . . I mean, if I wait for it.

Nope......
You get a Creamsicle

 

[classwife]

and then...of what we do get to keep on the market...figure up the rumor of 1ml being the equivalent of a pack of smokes...
Use a grab from the air figure of $1/pk (ml) tax...

 

[classwife]

I gotta stay out of that Deeming Thread...it gives me nightmares

 

[supertrunker]

When i first stopped smoking using cigalikes, the marketing guff said a carto was equivalent to a whole pack of cigarettes, but ofc, it was nothing of the sort.

I'd rip through 4 or more a day and that was at 24mg, so it became apparent very fast that i'd have to make my own liquid and use devices with more power, especially when all my co-workers whined because i was charging something in every USB port of every computer in a 100 yard radius.

The level at which any taxation is set is problematic, since, as above, e-liquid has never been directly comparable to tobacco. Worst of all, we all know that taxes are never abolished, rarely reduced and in this case, regressive, in that they will fall disproportionately on the poorer members of society who are typically more likely to smoke anyway.
So rather than helping them away from tobacco use, such a tax would do the opposite and i think that is unethical.

T

 

[Rickajho]

But if you stash some nic behind the Eggo Waffles, then the Waffles can be said (due to leeching) to have an effect on the quality of your vape, and therefore, Eggo Waffles (and frozen pizza, and french fries) are TOBACCO PRODUCTS.

Oh hell, cut to the chase: Major kitchen appliances from the gas stove to the fridge/freezer will be considered tobacco products.

 

[Slots]

I started stocking up on just about everything, of the most reliable devises, attys etc almost 2 years ago. .. if everything got shut down tomorrow, I would be okay.
KAS

You and I think alike
I started taking advantage of the sales when I started vaping years ago. I knew "something" was going to happen to ruin a good thing.
I was more afraid of what my state would do before the FDA got around to it. They have been after us for over a year now.
All I had to do was "follow the money" for motivation.