26650 Battery Questions- NEWBIE

[RiderDragon]

I have read alot on the forums tried to research to really understand it and its just not clicking yet so I will tuck my tail and just ask.

I am not into subohms and dont build my own coils yet. I use coils from 1.8-2.4ohms.

I just ordered a 26650 Battery with the specs-

Capacity:3500 mAh​

Material: Li-Mn​

Discharging current: 50A​

Voltage: 3.7v​

Flat Top

​

Using the above battery in a mod with a 1.8ohm coil is safe? I am just confuzzled on the amp- is that only important with subohms or is that a coninuous amp out that would burn the coil.. Another fellow told me not to use some batterys in VW mods because it could burn out the wiring inside so I have just been using regular IMR 3.7 2000mah on my VW devices. Now I have one with a 50amp rating it has me trying to understand it more since it will be on a regular mechanical mod.. Just bought them waiting to ship so was hoping for some decent answers.

Got the Dino Mechanical Mod- the Aerotank Giant and hoping this battery will be safe for that setup. I have read the ohms law and battery info but it still hasnt quite clicked yet..

Thank you for all help!

6weeks cigg free!

 

[Bassnorma]

Hey Rider,

I am by no means a battery expert but I know a couple of guys on here that definitely are! I am going to grab a couple of blog posts here from Baditude,,,

Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries - Part I
Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries - Part 2

Have you read those yet?

And great job on the 6 weeks!

 

[Stosh]

The amp rating on a battery is the maximum that it can handle. If you use less, that's good, better safety margin. For a 1.8Ω coil you're not going to get near too much for the battery to handle. I vape around 1.8Ω most of the time, a good quality IMR high drain will work easily.

In your car your speedometer may go to 120 MPH, but it doesn't mean that;s the only speed you can drive...:
A lower speed is fine and easier on your engine.

Regarding VW mods, a high drain, high amp rating on your battery is a good thing. The amp rating is the highest you can use safely, not what is drawn every time you fire the mod....

 

[RiderDragon]

Hey Rider,

I am by no means a battery expert but I know a couple of guys on here that definitely are! I am going to grab a couple of blog posts here from Baditude,,,

Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries - Part I
Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries - Part 2

Have you read those yet?

And great job on the 6 weeks!

Thank you! I did read them both and bookmarked them.

 

[RiderDragon]

Thank you! Makes much more sense now.. Thats where I was stuck is if you turned the engine on if it starts at 60mph with a max speed of 120mph... I guess the one guy telling me be careful not to put a high amp into my VW mod had me guessing if i understood and stayed away from the amp labeled ones worried it would toast my VW Mod. So using the calculator for a 50amp battery i can pretty much safely vape from anything fom a .3 and up so using my 1.2, 1.5, 1.8, 2.4 coils.. so using this battery on a 1.2 coil it says pulling about 3amps correct so well below the 50 and safe... Thank you it makes more sense now thinking of it as a max not a startup...

 

[Bassnorma]

I also have a question about how to use the Ohm's Law calculator. I hope you don't mind if I ask it here.

So if I am using this....ohms law calculator ....

and I plug in 3.7 (which is the voltage rating for my battery) and then I plug in the Ohms of my coil, It will give me the other two numbers, right?

Let's say I plugged in an ohm rating of .2 (which when I get around to building coils, I will never do) but for the sake of example:


If my battery has a maximum (continuous?) discharge rate of 10 amps then I am already pushing my battery past it's limits at .2 resistance because that requires 18.5 current (amps?)

So do I have that right?

And also are maximum discharge rate and continuous discharge rate the same thing? I am reading that some battery manufacturers lie more than politicians. But from a nomenclature standpoint are those terms the same?

Trying to sort out, when I get around to building how to best use the calculator. So, if I have anything wrong here, would you mind giving me the Ohms Law Calculator while building for Dummies version?

Thanks!

So, Stosh as long as current in the calculator is in fact the amps...you answered that question but reading the blogs I get a little tangled. So, I still need to know if maximum and continuous discharge rates are the same thing.

 

[RiderDragon]

Bassnorma- I am with you! came with same results on mine. would be 18.5amps wich would push past on your battery so you would want a 20amp rated and higher.. to my understanding now. I think im getting this now.. but brings another question to my mind.. If i can get a 20amp and 50amp IMR battery for same price why wouldnt I want the 50?? since it gives a far larger range of use..

 

[Bassnorma]

Bassnorma- I am with you! came with same results on mine. would be 18.5amps wich would push past on your battery so you would want a 20amp rated and higher.. to my understanding now. I think im getting this now.. but brings another question to my mind.. If i can get a 20amp and 50amp IMR battery for same price why wouldnt I want the 50?? since it gives a far larger range of use..

Good question...and of course I don't know!

But i have been reading that some of these manufacturers play with words and don't use standard terms for things to confuse a buyer into thinking they have a higher amp rating then that actually do.

I hope someone answers that because I want to know too.

I have to laugh because I have read so many battery posts and I barely keep up then when folks start debating I glaze over.....

and then all is lost...all sense all sensibility...everything!!!!

I have a feeling though, like you it is starting to click.

 

[dchemist]

Just a couple of things to consider using the Ohm's Law Calculator:

A 3.7 V battery fresh off the charger will be at 4.2 V (or very close). You are best to figure the amp draw using 4.2 V instead of 3.7 V.

Second, the continuous discharge rate is an industry standard while the pulse discharge rate is something that the vendor specs out (not standardized). When figuring out your build, you are best to use the continuous discharge rate plus a buffer to stay in the safe zone.

Example: I use Sony VTC4s and VTC5s that have continuous discharge rate of 30A. For my safety I won't build anything that requires more than 80% of that or 24A. Using a fresh battery at 4.2V, I could build a coil at a little under 0.18 Ohms and not go over the 24A load. Now the real question; will I? No, I built a 0.5 single coil on my Plume Veil and couldn't get it to wick fast enough (resulting in dry hits). For the Plume Veil a 0.7-0.8 ohm dual coil works great for me. In my Kayfun I like a single 1.5 ohm coil. That knowledge just comes from trial and error about what you like. None the less, you can see that I'm not using my batteries to their fullest potential but I'm getting longer use between charges (which is really where the mAh ratings matter more). Keeping the analogy with a car, I'm getting better fuel economy driving at 60 instead of 120 (granted I'm still driving a full size truck instead of a hybrid but I have the versatility when I need it).

 

[Bassnorma]

Just a couple of things to consider using the Ohm's Law Calculator:

A 3.7 V battery fresh off the charger will be at 4.2 V (or very close). You are best to figure the amp draw using 4.2 V instead of 3.7 V.

Second, the continuous discharge rate is an industry standard while the pulse discharge rate is something that the vendor specs out (not standardized). When figuring out your build, you are best to use the continuous discharge rate plus a buffer to stay in the safe zone.

Example: I use Sony VTC4s and VTC5s that have continuous discharge rate of 30A. For my safety I won't build anything that requires more than 80% of that or 24A. Using a fresh battery at 4.2V, I could build a coil at a little under 0.18 Ohms and not go over the 24A load. Now the real question; will I? No, I built a 0.5 single coil on my Plume Veil and couldn't get it to wick fast enough (resulting in dry hits). For the Plume Veil a 0.7-0.8 ohm dual coil works great for me. In my Kayfun I like a single 1.5 ohm coil. That knowledge just comes from trial and error about what you like. None the less, you can see that I'm not using my batteries to their fullest potential but I'm getting longer use between charges (which is really where the mAh ratings matter more). Keeping the analogy with a car, I'm getting better fuel economy driving at 60 instead of 120 (granted I'm still driving a full size truck instead of a hybrid but I have the versatility when I need it).

Interesting. So when I plugged in 4.2v it raised the amp usage for that .2 ohm coil. Yet another way to be safe! Makes sense, a fully charged battery will have more available (current) amperage and the low resistance on the coil will pull more.

Can you answer RiderDragon's question about...

brings another question to my mind.. If i can get a 20amp and 50amp IMR battery for same price why wouldnt I want the 50?? since it gives a far larger range of use..

 

[RiderDragon]

Thank you Dchemist that does help too. Agree on the higher volt as well I always check my battery volts before using them on my mod. I will have to get a omnitester sometime soon. been using my VW Mod to check Battery Volts and Coil Resistances- it works for now.. Thank you for claryfing the continuous vs pulse rate too

 

[Bassnorma]

Thank you Dchemist that does help too. Agree on the higher volt as well I always check my battery volts before using them on my mod. I will have to get a omnitester sometime soon. been using my VW Mod to check Battery Volts and Coil Resistances- it works for now.. Thank you for claryfing the continuous vs pulse rate too

Like this? Omni Tester

 

[dchemist]

Bassnorma- I am with you! came with same results on mine. would be 18.5amps wich would push past on your battery so you would want a 20amp rated and higher.. to my understanding now. I think im getting this now.. but brings another question to my mind.. If i can get a 20amp and 50amp IMR battery for same price why wouldnt I want the 50?? since it gives a far larger range of use..

Ah yes, the eternal question!

Here's my reasoning/opinion and keep in mind what it's worth.

If you only need a 20A battery and can get a 50A battery for the same price why wouldn't you? EXCEPT, what is the mAh rating of the 20A battery and the mAh rating of the 50A battery? Let's suppose the 20A is a 3000 mAh battery and the 50A is a 2000 mAh battery. In that case, theoretically, you should get 50% more use between charges from the 20A battery then you would from the 50A battery. If the mAh of the batteries were the same you should get the same life between charges.

Of course this is all theoretical because it also depends on how hard you tax your battery (say pulling 2 amps vs 20 amps). There are some really good long life batteries that have a "controlled" discharge limit (around 6-10 amps) that will last longer than my VTC4s & 5s assuming I operate them in that safe range.

When I was just purchasing batteries I wasn't really sure where my Vaping experience was going to take me. I wanted a battery that would last me most/all the day that I could use when I got into rebuilding but also use with my Nautilus, or regulated mod, etc. I chose the 18650 size based on versatility (most mods can accommodate). I chose 30A because I just didn't know what I was going to need.

So once again, back to the car...I wanted something versatile, a truck. I chose the 18650, full size truck, for popularity and choose the 30A for towing capacity. I could get better fuel economy in a smaller truck, or smaller motor, hybrid engine, or even driving a Prius. But for me, a truck is what make me happy.

Edit: the controlled discharge batteries (6-10 amp) are usually higher mAh than my Sony's

 

[Stosh]

If you only need a 20A battery and can get a 50A battery for the same price why wouldn't you? EXCEPT, what is the mAh rating of the 20A battery and the mAh rating of the 50A battery? Let's suppose the 20A is a 3000 mAh battery and the 50A is a 2000 mAh battery. In that case, theoretically, you should get 50% more use between charges from the 20A battery then you would from the 50A battery. If the mAh of the batteries were the same you should get the same life between charges.

Ah, now this gets a bit more complicated, the mah rating is only half the story. Your batteries will start at 4.2 volts off the charger and slowly drop in voltage as you use them. The "get a good vape" goes as low as 3.4-3.5 volts and the USABLE mah is whatever is available while the battery is between 4.2 and 3.5 volts.

Some batteries will drop voltage early in the life of the charge and level off, while others will hold a higher voltage and drop off quickly but after longer use. A battery that holds at least 3.7 volts for the longest time will give you the best vape between charges even if the mah rating might be lower than another manufacturer's unit'.

Vaping at about 1.8Ω gives a good flavor, a lot of vapor and less chance of dry hits. I will go somewhat lower, but then have to pay a lot more attention to how much air flow, how much eliquid flow, wick size and style, topper style, etc to ensure a good vape. The higher wattage you go, the more power you use the more complicated it can get.

Back to the cars, a simple 4-banger rice burner is much easier to maintain than a 700 hp NASCAR race car. There is loads of options between and as you gain experience telling what's going wrong is easier to diagnose.

 

[RiderDragon]

Like this? Omni Tester

Yea one of those. Figure be good to have. Sucks taking my battery outa the mod to put in the vw to test voltage to then put back in mod.

Ride the Waves of Music ¥ - Sandu

 

[RiderDragon]

Stosh and Dchemist you rock! Very helpful and love the car analogy. The continuous discharge thing had me question it but I am getting it now.

I am just hoping this new setup last me longer. I need something that will last a concert. 4-6 hrs.. so ordered 2 of those.

Ride the Waves of Music ¥ - Sandu