3ml to 10ml flavor change!?!

[mgmixology]

Let's just start with the confusion. I have created all of my recipes at the 3ml level.
1% being .03ml and the following percents increased by the same amount leaving 10% to be .3ml
When mixing 3ml sample bottles, I use 1ml syringes, The issue is NOT in the measuring itself. No burps, no hiccups, no ooops I added in .3 instead of .03ml. I am very meticulous.

My mixes are always ready to vape. I run my 3ml samples through the ultrasonic cleaner until it naturally heats to what I would consider 120F. Then I take them out and shake them for a solid minute. They are ready to vape at that point with excellent flavor.
Mixing at the 3ml level, I am unable to do the true test of time (trying a juice weeks later). Because they are ready to vape I end up vaping away all of my sample. Now I know what advice is going to be given, vape 2ml and put 1ml away for a test of time. I'm aware of that but it still doesnt happen.

Anyways I'm having some issues when scaling up my recipes. I mixed up all of my perfected recipes at the 10ml level.
Now 10ml measurements are as follows. 1% being .1ml and the following percents increased by the same amount leaving 10% to be 1ml.

For example: 3ml at 8% would be .24ml of flavoring. 10ml at 8% would be .8% flavoring.

The issue is not in the math but as I scale up I seem to be getting a not so spot on recipe. again my 3ml are perfect.

My 3ml are plastic, as well as my 10ml. I initially thought maybe its the bottles being plastic and the temp rose to high during the ultrasonic steep impacting the flavor. So I took one of my 30ml glass bottles and mixed up the same 10ml sample and get the same flavor as I did in my plastic 10ml.

Also when scaling up. The old one drop of menthol in 3ml does NOT scale up to 3~ drops in 10ml.


*notes - Fresh wicks/coils, no cross-contamination, No issues with math nor measuring. Also since my vapes are ready to vape immediately its not an issue of my recipes needing some more time to change, and im vaping them too early.

I've come to the conclusion with more juice, more time is required to steep....but I just cant wrap my head around that!
Any thoughts, anyone else with this issue? chime in

 

[Chas_L]

I've come to the conclusion with more juice, more time is required to steep....

That has been posted numerious times and I am a believer however seems a bit odd in your case as you used a USC. I use one also and my SOP is 3 hours minium at 125F often longer. I believe the heat has more of a speed steeping effect than the vibration does.

I routinely only fill bottles 2/3 full so that shaking and airing outby squezzing bottles is more effective unless I know it wll be a month or more before I need the juice..

 

[Dave_in_OK]

If your using additives such as ACV Lemon Juice etc it may be that at the higher amount/volume that their effect is more than what is desired. This shouldn't be the case with percentages but who knows.

 

[mgmixology]

The current recipe im dealing with does not have any additives.

 

[mgmixology]

That has been posted numerious times and I am a believer however seems a bit odd in your case as you used a USC. I use one also and my SOP is 3 hours minium at 125F often longer. I believe the heat has more of a speed steeping effect than the vibration does.

I routinely only fill bottles 2/3 full so that shaking and airing outby squezzing bottles is more effective unless I know it wll be a month or more before I need the juice..

I feel heat allows the vibration to be more effective, because the heated liquid allows for more vibration to pass through as opposed to a thick cold one. So I think they both work as a team. Vibration by itself, or just plain heat by itself I feel are far less effective than the combination of the two.

my 10ml bottles are actually closer to 11.2 so there is plenty of room to shake. Maxing out the capacity of a container does not allow any shaking to be done haha so I'm good there.

 

[Dave_in_OK]

Sounds to me as if one of your ingredients/flavors is at a too high of a percentage which only shows when at a higher volume. Of course this is only a guess.

 

[mgmixology]

Sounds to me as if one of your ingredients/flavors is at a too high of a percentage which only shows when at a higher volume. Of course this is only a guess.

I mix appropriately. Most of my complex recipes total to about 12% 4-5 flavors.

in which case you can then tell me at a higher volume they are too low.

Either way I cant make logical sense of why scaling up is having a negative effect on my recipes!
5% of a 10ml or 5% of 100ml is still a 5% solution.

 

[DetraMental]

Could it be a matter of 1 decimal difference. The 3 decimal place round up being closer to a higher number than to a lower number. It's just a thought. I don't know why else it would change your recipe except to say it hasn't mixed completely. It may take longer to mix the larger bottles to ensure all the flavors are distributed thoroughly. Most perplexing.

 

[Dave_in_OK]

5% of a 10ml or 5% of 100ml is still a 5% solution.

Yes but an error at 3ml is 1/3 the error at 10ml so if your off at .003 at 3ml it would be just over .009 at 10ml and might have an effect that only shows up at higher volumes.

 

[keelalagirl55]

I've come to the conclusion with more juice, more time is required to steep....but I just cant wrap my head around that!

Maybe this will help....maybe not....dunno.

The larger the batch, the more bits and pieces there are that have to combine with eachother to get to the same level of your 3 ml batch, more area to have to move through, ect. Trying to think of some silly RL deal to compare it to and for some odd reason all I think of is musical chairs The game of musical chairs is gonna take longer with 40 people and 39 chairs (bits and pieces) than a game with just 6 people and 5 chairs Don't ask why that is what comes to mind, but it did and now it won't go away

 

[FinallyQuit]

Maybe this will help....maybe not....dunno.

The larger the batch, the more bits and pieces there are that have to combine with eachother to get to the same level of your 3 ml batch, more area to have to move through, ect. Trying to think of some silly RL deal to compare it to and for some odd reason all I think of is musical chairs The game of musical chairs is gonna take longer with 40 people and 39 chairs (bits and pieces) than a game with just 6 people and 5 chairs Don't ask why that is what comes to mind, but it did and now it won't go away

But it makes perfect sense!

The larger amount of plain pg and vg are going to take longer to incorporate fully with the flavor molecules.

At least that's my non-scientific, totally anecdotal evidence.

 

[winemermaid]

I've thought this to myself mixing juices all the time (I also use a USC and very picky about mixture proportions). At first, I definitely thought it was just me. But when I started my process of elimination (wicks, bottles, flavoring percent, how big batches were, etc) I ended up making my favorite juices in smaller batches because they tasted better. I have yet to really have an explanation other than "bigger batches have more surface area to mix". But even if I leave it in the USC for an entire 48 hours or let it sit on the shelf for 2 months, it still doesn't taste the same as my favorite 10 ml batch! I've just stuck to making it in 10 ml instead of my normal 30 ml, and yeah it sucks to make it more frequently. But I'd rather have a good tasting ejuice, then to vape garbage to save me 2 minutes of my life. If anyone ever really figures out why this is (and it doesn't happen to all my flavors), I'd be interested in knowing about it.

 

[mgmixology]

Sad face all around =[