3ml To 5ml Flavor change

[hoodlums562]

I just started getting into mixing my own juice and I ran into my first problem. I was wondering if somebody out there could help me out! I created a 3ml mix at 45pg/55vg with the total flavor percentage at 15%. 6% on one flavor and 9% on the other. Ran it through a quick hot bath and tried it. Came out really good. So my brother and his GF wanted me to make them one I created the exact same recipe at 10ml and the flavor is off.

Anyone know what would cause this? Maybe needs to be steeped compared to the smaller size 3ml? Or would I have to raise the flavor percentage someway? Wouldn't the flavor percentage be the same no matter what size batch I am creating?

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[dannyv45]

I would re-check the calculations and make sure your ml measurements were correct. If you calculated and measured correctly it should not be off.

 

[hoodlums562]

I am pretty sure that my measurements were correct. Cant say im 100% certain but im pretty certain I ran out of the flavors I used so I put in an order for more to make another batch to test it again. In the meantime I guess Ill just steep it to see if it fixes itself. But either way they should both taste the same right away as I didn't steep the 3ml at all.

 

[knotin1]

I am pretty sure that my measurements were correct. Cant say im 100% certain but im pretty certain I ran out of the flavors I used so I put in an order for more to make another batch to test it again. In the meantime I guess Ill just steep it to see if it fixes itself. But either way they should both taste the same right away as I didn't steep the 3ml at all.

Other then the absence of shaking or quality of the shake, it has to be user error.

When making a small mix, single digit, there is less room for error in flavor measurements. Most people do not have the equipment and the expertise to be exact with their measurements.


Lets say you average measurement error is only a .05ml. Lets say you are making a 3 flavor mix. Your error will be .15ml. That could be 5% off in either direction on a 3ml batch. The end result can be even more magnified when you also count in the .05ml user error in Nic, PG, VG and then the wide range of equations. Over pour with one flavor, under pour with another flavor and so fourth.......this could have huge affects on a small batch. Larger batches the .05ml would be harder to detect.

You make a 30ml 3 flavor mix and off by .05ml that is still .15ml in user error. But that would equate to only a .5% off in either direction.

 

[Heabob]

I make 10ml test batches for repeatability, 0 nic.
And always use the same 1ml syringe and needle, (for flavorings).
But I still have a goof up sometimes

 

[hoodlums562]

Thanks for the information, I made a 3ml batch because that was the only empty bottle I had left, So would you suggest just making test batches at 10ml only?

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

Depending on the flavors you are using as little as 0.25% (1/4 of 1%) error can make a big difference. That's 25/100ths of 1ml on a 10ml bottle of e-liquid.

Maybe post your recipe and we could better tell where the issue is.

Maurice

 

[knotin1]

Thanks for the information, I made a 3ml batch because that was the only empty bottle I had left, So would you suggest just making test batches at 10ml only?

What are you using to measure? If I were making 3ml bottles, I would be sure to have a very accurate measurement system. You could use the drop method, but be sure to figure out how many drop= 1ml. Every flavor/liquid/and tip will produce different size drops.

Main point, smaller the batch, more accurate you have to be.

 

[knotin1]

Depending on the flavors you are using as little as 0.25% (1/4 of 1%) error can make a big difference. That's 25/100ths of 1ml on a 10ml bottle of e-liquid.

Maybe post your recipe and we could better tell where the issue is.

Maurice

Pretty easy to keep the error under 25/100 ml .25ml. As you said, thats for a 10ml bottle. on a 3ml bottle it would take an even smaller amount of user error to screw up the batch. On a 40ml bottle, that would be 1ml difference.

Good stuff!!

 

[wllmc]

was going to pretty much say the same thing as knotin1 . measuring accurately at 3 ml can be a challenge depending on how you were measuring. 6% of 3 ml is only .18 ml, depending on the flavoring used the difference between .1 and .15 and .2 can be a lot of flavor change. I do 6ml testers because I can vape 6ml of almost any juice in half a day lol so its whatever. If I know I'll really really like a sample batch but I dont know how I want to tweak it Ill make 12ml and vape it all day thinking about ideas and save the leftover 2-4 ml and let it sit in the cabinet for awhile and revisit it later. If Im pretty sure I'll hate it then Ill do 3 ml but thats rare. you should do whatever makes you dance tho

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

Pretty easy to keep the error under 25/100 ml .25ml. As you said, thats for a 10ml bottle. on a 3ml bottle it would take an even smaller amount of user error to screw up the batch. On a 40ml bottle, that would be 1ml difference.

Good stuff!!

True, if you have something that will measure 1/100th of 1ml (an insulin syringe is one example), a 10 or even 3ml syringe is going to require a bit better eyeballage.

Maurice

 

[AmandaD]

I almost always make 6ml testers, because the flavorings I use have a fairly consistent drop size - I know that 0.5ml is 1 drop And like wilmc, if I love it I just put it in the big Reo and vape till gone. If I'm not sure I put half of it in the smaller Reo and decide! Once I know it's good I make a base, and use that in whatever bottle size I make. By making a base it's going to be fairly consistent regardless of bottle size (e.g., one recipe needs 6% of base, another 4% of base - just takes one syringe to measure). All credit for this goes to HeadinTheClouds

 

[hoodlums562]

The Recipe im using is TFA Watermelon 6% TFA Blueberry Wild 9% 45pg/55vg at 3mg nic.

I almost always make 6ml testers, because the flavorings I use have a fairly consistent drop size - I know that 0.5ml is 1 drop And like wilmc, if I love it I just put it in the big Reo and vape till gone. If I'm not sure I put half of it in the smaller Reo and decide! Once I know it's good I make a base, and use that in whatever bottle size I make. By making a base it's going to be fairly consistent regardless of bottle size (e.g., one recipe needs 6% of base, another 4% of base - just takes one syringe to measure). All credit for this goes to HeadinTheClouds

What do you mean by creating a base? I am brand new to DIY so any help or links would be appreciated.

 

[AmandaD]

The Recipe im using is TFA Watermelon 6% TFA Blueberry Wild 9% 45pg/55vg at 3mg nic.



What do you mean by creating a base? I am brand new to DIY so any help or links would be appreciated.

Let's say I have a recipe that uses 0.5% flavor A, 0.5% flavor B, 1% flavor C, 0.75% flavor D. That's a total of 2.75% flavoring total. It's a pain to measure out such small amounts, so I just make a base using the same proportions and measure out 2.75% flavoring to my nic base, however much that may be - 6mls or 30 mls.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

A 5ml batch would look like this;

2.75ml (55.0%) VG
x.xxml (x.xx%) PG
x.xxml (x.xx%) xxmg/ml xx% PG or VG nicotine
0.45ml (9.0%) Blueberry Wild TFA
0.3ml (6.0%) Watermelon TFA

A 10ml batch would look like this;

5.5ml (55.0%) VG
x.xxml (x.xx%) PG
x.xxml (x.xx%) xxmg/ml xx% PG or VG nicotine
0.9ml (9.0%) Blueberry Wild TFA
0.6ml (6.0%) Watermelon TFA

Without knowing what nicotine strength you are aiming for I can't tell what quantity of PG you would need; and without knowing what your nicotine base is mixed with or its strength I can't tell how much of it you would need in the mixture either.

Using more nicotine than planned can really alter your mixtures flavor in a big way, usually in my own screw up it has a very noticeable peppery taste that overpowers the flavoring.

Nicotine base comes in a variety of concentrations for example (M.F.S. Inc.) 24, 36, 48, 60, & 100mg/ml, I started and still have a supply of the 48mg/ml version. With that said...

I for some reason calculated for 24mg/ml once and knew right away I screwed up, looking at my notes it became instantly obvious what I did. I was mixing a 30ml bottle of e-liquid to 6mg/ml and thinking the thinking the base was 24mg/ml I added 7.5ml of the base (that comes out to 12mg/ml not my expected 6mg/ml).

Maurice

 

[knotin1]

There seems to be many schools of thought on how to mix. Some just add this and that until they get something they like. Some measure a bit more closely until they get what they like. Some dial in individual flavors and then mix those single individual mixes together to make a juice.

I strive to get things dialed in using math. Exact measurements and calculations that can be replicated easily using the math. I think to be successful artist you really have to understand math. Having the equations written down really helps to dial in the flavors. My fear would be to have a complex mix, 5+ flavors, that truly is an awesome juice, but not know the exact measurements. Being off on one of the flavors, it could take forever to figure out which flavor is off and by how much and whether it is do to being low or high in flavor. To many variables. Even if one flavor is off by .5ml, there are 10 different things I would have to potentially try to figure out which was off on a 5 flavor mix.

No matter what, as long as you enjoy the end result and having fun, then everything else is meaningless. I happen to enjoy math and mixing and working with the numbers.

 

[hoodlums562]

A 5ml batch would look like this;

2.75ml (55.0%) VG
x.xxml (x.xx%) PG
x.xxml (x.xx%) xxmg/ml xx% PG or VG nicotine
0.45ml (9.0%) Blueberry Wild TFA
0.3ml (6.0%) Watermelon TFA

A 10ml batch would look like this;

5.5ml (55.0%) VG
x.xxml (x.xx%) PG
x.xxml (x.xx%) xxmg/ml xx% PG or VG nicotine
0.9ml (9.0%) Blueberry Wild TFA
0.6ml (6.0%) Watermelon TFA

Without knowing what nicotine strength you are aiming for I can't tell what quantity of PG you would need; and without knowing what your nicotine base is mixed with or its strength I can't tell how much of it you would need in the mixture either.

Using more nicotine than planned can really alter your mixtures flavor in a big way, usually in my own screw up it has a very noticeable peppery taste that overpowers the flavoring.

Nicotine base comes in a variety of concentrations for example (M.F.S. Inc.) 24, 36, 48, 60, & 100mg/ml, I started and still have a supply of the 48mg/ml version. With that said...

I for some reason calculated for 24mg/ml once and knew right away I screwed up, looking at my notes it became instantly obvious what I did. I was mixing a 30ml bottle of e-liquid to 6mg/ml and thinking the thinking the base was 24mg/ml I added 7.5ml of the base (that comes out to 12mg/ml not my expected 6mg/ml).

Maurice

Yea, Im sorry I didn't add this detail. I am using 36mg of PG Based Nic.