5 and 6 volt mod ?

[500KV]

Are those of us who use the 5 and 6 volt mods heating these VG based liquids to the dangerous level?
Been seeing these posts about the release of acrolein (a toxin) when VG is heated to a certain temperature.
The acrid taste was mentioned as occurring at this point and I've noticed this at times, especially at the 5 or 6 volt level.
Just wondered whether anyone has any definitive information about this.

 

[CaSHMeRe]

no definitive answer yet ... I was planning to test liquids, but have yet to get to that point. I doubt there is any *factual analysis* done at this point in time...

 

[kinabaloo]

no definitive answer yet ... I was planning to test liquids, but have yet to get to that point. I doubt there is any *factual analysis* done at this point in time...

I'd say it is an absolute fact. And quite easy to demonstrate.

I had the idea some months ago of a way to test if VG heat decomposes without expensive equipment. And the test itself was carried out by Exogenesis, who repeated it with PG.

Simple idea: mix VG with water, vape 30ml of this with a new atty; look for any deposit. If no decomposotion, no deposit.

The results were extremely clear: with VG big deposit (equivalent to about 0.3%-1% having decomposed. With PG, clear atty; no decomposition at all.

VG decomposes to acrolein ('acrid oil') and water (it is a dehydration 'reaction' under heat and begind to occur at a bit lower temp than its boiling point).

I still use VG for its greater fog and thickness for juice holding/wicking.

By comparing the residue volume as a guide to toxin level, a VG juice is at least 100x safer than an analog (by this measure).

 

[kinabaloo]

As to the voltage making a difference; this could be checked quite easily by the same test procedure. I would expect that a higher voltage would increase the decomposition proportion somewhat; it all depends on the coil temp. Whatever voltage is used, the key is to not let the atty begin to get dry. And for manuals, to time the on and the off to avoid overheating (heating without drawing air though).

 

[CaSHMeRe]

kinabaloo ... its not a fact until proven ... I see no detailed analysis with your response -- therefore, it remains optimism ...

EDIT: Waiting in heavy anticipation for kinabaloo's response -- don't let me down brother !!! LOL

 

[500KV]

I still use VG for its greater fog and thickness for juice holding/wicking.

By comparing the residue volume as a guide to toxin level , a VG juice is at least 100x safer than an analog (by this measure).

I still use Vg also kina.
Do you believe this comparison is an accurate method of determining the actual toxin level of the vapor itself?
I'm about to develop a minor case of paranoia.

 

[kinabaloo]

kinabaloo ... its not a fact until proven ... I see no detailed analysis with your response -- therefore, it remains optimism ...

EDIT: Waiting in heavy anticipation for kinabaloo's response -- don't let me down brother !!! LOL

To my mind it was never really in doubt as that is the science. But the experiment is unambiguous: VG partially decomposes in the atty. It doesn't prove that any acrolein is produced, but science tells us that this is the decomposition reaction: that acrolein is produced in decomposition. Obviously some of this acrolein (a volatile liquid) reacts further (probably polymerisation) and further degradtion to amorphous carbon and likely amorphous carbon chain fragments (what is seen on the coil). Some acrolein probably is emitted in the vapor and partly accounts for the bad small noticeable when the atty is running dry (and also the burning of dry deposits to carbon ash).

I have said how to do the test and it's easy to do. Exogenesis used a pump so the vaping was automatic and could be left running unattended. But simply vaping a VG+water mix, say 10ml (would give a clear result) by hand would also work. Do with a new atty and the same again with PG and compare. That's 90% VG 10% water.

 

[metapuff]

let me get this straight.
the normal voltage levels of our ecigs operate at 3.7v
the high voltage ones are 5-6v
some premium pv's do operate at 3.7v as well as 5-6

if we want to play it safe and have a premium battery
3.7v is as high as we should go.

correct?

the acrolein thing scares me.

 

[kinabaloo]

the acrolein thing scares me.

Though I say acrolein is real (with VG) it is not something I worry about because the amounts are so tiny.

There's no way to avoid acrolein with VG, no matter the voltage.

Similar toxins are produced whenever food is 'browned', even in something as simple as toast. Not quite so toxic as acrolein but more voluminous. With food, this can be avoided by never cooking above 100C, i.e. using only boiling and steaming. But I love toast If I could live forever by avoiding toast I would avoid it, but as life is limited, I want to enjoy it, and getting stressed out is certainly not healthy.

If really worried, PG is totally acrolein free (as far as i can tell, which I'd say is a fairly solid conclusion)

The terrible irony of life, chemically speaking, is that the molecule that sustains life, oxygen, is also the one that kills us in the end - by being oxidised; the body has lots of defences but in the end, there's only one winner.

 

[Nuck]

Air flow and how wet your keep the atomizer both have a significant effect on the temperature of the coil. I found that I tend to use more liquid but also replace it more frequently when vaping at higher voltages. I don't have issues with any burnt tasting liquid but I'm pretty used to my dripping techniques at this point.

The jury is out on the production of acrolein and it's best to wait for actual lab results before make absolute statements.