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A bigger concern

Discussion in 'General Vaping Discussion' started by SupplierX, Mar 3, 2009.

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  1. SupplierX

    SupplierX Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Dec 5, 2008
    Ohio USA
    Just a thought, here is something we should be concerned about, much more valid than any other concern:

    A large company like Ruyan will spend the money to get e-cigs approved by the FDA as an NRT. This could mean that only Ruyan e-cigs would be legal and they would only be available with a prescription. Ruyan would do this because they could then be the sole provider of e-cigs to pharmicutical companies. I fear that this is truley the future of e-cigarettes. Just like the patch, after a couple of years it will then be over the counter, but only approved companies will be able to produce and sell.

    This is a real concern, the only plus side is that this won't happen for a year or two.
     
  2. TropicalBob

    TropicalBob Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2008
    Port Charlotte, FL USA
    I find that a valid concern. But Ruyan is virtually the only company carrying out the testing that must be done to shovel a new drug to consumers. Ruyan also owns the original patents for this process. It is enforcing them now.

    So, yes, it's accurate to project Ruyan as the sweep-the-table winner here. And it's also accurate to see these are NRT devices for "nicotine addiction," sold only on a doctor's prescription at about 10 times what we now pay.

    Frankly, the ONLY alternative to what plays out above is that nicotine is approved as a kind of unregulated recreational drug, the way caffeine is. Caffeine and nicotine are kissing cousins, stimulants and relaxants that release the same brain chemicals. Caffeine can be legally added to everything from energy drinks to chewing gum. There are differences, of course, but more similarities, I think. Nicotine and caffeine should have the same regulations, or lack of, as product additives.

    If only the powers would see that nicotine can be used safely the same way caffeine is. I wish at least one manufacturer settled on that argument and pushed it.
     
  3. e-pipeman

    e-pipeman Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Oct 16, 2008
    Brown Edge, England
  4. TropicalBob

    TropicalBob Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2008
    Port Charlotte, FL USA
    Expipeman, we in the States fail to see the significance of Boots. So? Walgreens' is planning to sell e-cigs in the States. That means nothing as far as approval goes. Zero. What's special about Boots selling a Ruyan product? I get lost in the euphoria over Boots ..
     
  5. Valgar

    Valgar Full Member

    Feb 7, 2009
    UK - England.
    In the UK, Boots is an old and well respected major pharmacy. The hype over them stocking e-cigarettes is more to do with the channels of positive public perception it opens. Which in turn, gets the 'powers-that-be' thinking of the product as something more than a short-lived internet fad.
     
  6. fenez

    fenez Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 15, 2009
    N.Y
    I think they will only be able to regulate the nicotine ( carts, juice,) I think the cig part is going to be a little more difficult to regulate because the cigs on there own pose no health threat. they are going to be hard pressed to explain how or why they would need to regulate them because they don't regulate all smoking products (rolling paper,pipes,blank filters) the ecig can be used sans nicotine which could be the reason that its still up in the air.
     
  7. e-pipeman

    e-pipeman Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Oct 16, 2008
    Brown Edge, England
    Tbob,
    Boots are one of the biggest chains of chemists/pharmacies in the UK. The are a long established, trusted high street name. For them to be carrying e-cigs alongside nrt products is a big deal over here and gives e-cigs a kind of legitimacy that so far they have not had. Yes, this is not outright approval as such, but bearing in mind the original post it is interesting. Is it that Nicocig/Ruyan are positioning themselves in the right kind of outlet where they could remain if they were to become a prescription-only item? Who knows - but it does give a sense of legitimacy to a product that is pretty much "underground" over here so far.
     
  8. fenez

    fenez Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 15, 2009
    N.Y
    Bob is right, if a major chain store was to carry them that would be a major development.
     
  9. fenez

    fenez Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 15, 2009
    N.Y
    As far as the juice and carts are concerned it looks to me as johnson creek has positioned themselves to be the big manufacturer in the U.S
     
  10. Cellmeister

    Cellmeister Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 3, 2009
    Beantown, USA
    Ya this is a concern. So When I Go to see my Doctor I will have to...

    Hey Doc,

    Can you Write Me A Prescription for a Dura-C with RY4!

    Oh Yea Doc, Please Specify a Working Unit! LOL

    That Could Happen!

    Lets Keep Vapin For Now!
     
  11. Drag on the Magic Puff

    Drag on the Magic Puff Full Member

    Oct 21, 2008
    Andalucia, Spain
    There are over 2,600 Boots outlets in the UK. That's not exactly small time.

    Out of interest, does anyone know how long they've been available there, is it a fairly recent thing?
     
  12. Valgar

    Valgar Full Member

    Feb 7, 2009
    UK - England.
    As far as I know, it was flagged by another user the other day. So, fairly recently.
     
  13. Drag on the Magic Puff

    Drag on the Magic Puff Full Member

    Oct 21, 2008
    Andalucia, Spain
    Thanks Valgar:)
     
  14. fenez

    fenez Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 15, 2009
    N.Y
    It's hard for us Americans to relate i guess. I didn't mean to trivialize.
     
  15. fenez

    fenez Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 15, 2009
    N.Y
    It would be very nice to just walk into a store & just purchase my ecig. So I guess I'm a little jealous.
     
  16. LaceyUnderall

    LaceyUnderall Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 4, 2008
    USA and Canada
    I 100% agree with you on this. This would/should be our next step: Get the moral campaigners to accept that the e-cig is a "safer" alternative than tobacco cigarettes and get them to focus on banning caffeine sales to those under 18 (here in the states) and 16 (in Canada). It would take the pressure off of us for awhile! ;) I am in full support that Caffeine should not be distributed to children. We would see a HUGE drop in the attention deficit disorders that are now plaguing our youth.

    Big Pharm won't like it one bit and that will take the focus off of nicotine for awhile. God knows they make more money on riddilin than they do their NRT's. Plus, they are also promoting prescription drug dependency starting at very early ages. This keeps their customers coming back for life!
     
  17. fenez

    fenez Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 15, 2009
    N.Y
    The government will never give up the tax cash cow that is regulating nicotine. Caffeine for some reason is way more acceptable.
     
  18. TropicalBob

    TropicalBob Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2008
    Port Charlotte, FL USA
    I've seen your posts on caffeine, Lacey, and agree with your contentions. If the same regulations applied to nicotine and caffeine as stimulants, then we wouldn't have sixth graders guzzling Cokes for lunch and 14-year-olds thinking it's oh-so-cool to down a few Red Bulls.

    Caffeine used to be found in coffee and tea. Nicotine used to be found in tobacco. Now, with our labs, we extract the chemical that causes the brain buzz and jazz up products needing a market boost. That's the case with caffeine. If e-cigs go on the chopping block, how is our use more hazardous than a Mountain Dew freak on deadline?

    Shake on, addicts.
     
  19. LaceyUnderall

    LaceyUnderall Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 4, 2008
    USA and Canada
    Imagine if they could get cash from caffeine AND nicotine! WOO! They'd be in the money then.
     
  20. Cymri

    Cymri Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 18, 2009
    Austin Texas
    I just read the US patent application for Ruyan. The very first section in it is why the FDA is trying get control of it:

    THE SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

    [0006] To overcome the above-mentioned drawbacks, an objective of the present invention is to provide an electronic atomization cigarette that functions as substitutes for quitting smoking and cigarette substitutes.

    Reading through it, it does seem like they have the claim to any ecigs that use ultrasonic atomizers, but that isn't how my vaporizer works!

    They might have claim to the pressure activated switch mechanism and the LED indicator on the end as well.

    Other than that there is nothing new as far as vaporizer designs which have been sold in head shops for years.

    A BIG concern is found on page 9 of the patent app. They mention the nicotine formulation and PG as a component. If they are the first to have come up with that idea of using PG in a vaporizer then they might have a hold on nicotine formulations that contain PG. I seriously doubt they do since they only devote a line or two to it. Looking further there are patents going back to 1959 mentioning using glycerin and the like in smokeless tobacco products so I doubt Ruyan came up with anything new in that formulation.

    I think their hold on vaporizers is pretty flimsy. Just make one with a manual switch instead of a pressure activated and maybe ditch the cool LED and they can't do crap IMHO.

    It's interesting to note that they filed the US patent application in March 2005 and it still isn't approved. I have an idea why- it's NOTHING NEW!! The only thing they are standing on is using old technology repackaged as an NRT.
     
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