(a little) Canadian perspective

[Tee_Jay]

Wow.. I just read a bunch of the FDA-related threads here.. I had no idea how dismal the legal/political situation is in the US around vaping. Our government is starting to pay attention too. However, we have a fairly recently elected government who ran on a platform of 'evidence-based decision making', And i truly believe (and hope) that when they begin regulating, they'll consider facts over the anti-everything-remotely-similar-to -smoking-(or-not-smoking)-tobacco hype that's going around. So if your fears over there come to fruition, and everything vape-related gets banned, at least there will (most likely) be legal companies operating in Canada to supply your black markets! Hey - we'll trade you guns for juice!

if i were you, i'd have quite a bone to pick with the FDA. One thing that comes to mind is this: There have been cases here where smokers have sued tobacco companies for saying that their products are harmless when those companies were proven to know differently. Has this happened in the US? The reason this is interesting is not to suggest you sue big tobacco, but couldn't someone sue the FDA? For intentionally misleading smokers with warnings on smokeless tobacco stating "This is not a safer alternative to smoking"? This is/was a lie, and the FDA can be proven to have known this at the time. Imagine all of the smokers who died of cancer who were discouraged from switching to safer nic sources if the FDA hadn't pushed this lie onto smokers. There's gotta be a case there.

 

[ENAUD]

Wow.. I just read a bunch of the FDA-related threads here.. I had no idea how dismal the legal/political situation is in the US around vaping. Our government is starting to pay attention too. However, we have a fairly recently elected government who ran on a platform of 'evidence-based decision making', And i truly believe (and hope) that when they begin regulating, they'll consider facts over the anti-everything-remotely-similar-to -smoking-(or-not-smoking)-tobacco hype that's going around. So if your fears over there come to fruition, and everything vape-related gets banned, at least there will (most likely) be legal companies operating in Canada to supply your black markets! Hey - we'll trade you guns for juice!

if i were you, i'd have quite a bone to pick with the FDA. One thing that comes to mind is this: There have been cases here where smokers have sued tobacco companies for saying that their products are harmless when those companies were proven to know differently. Has this happened in the US? The reason this is interesting is not to suggest you sue big tobacco, but couldn't someone sue the FDA? For intentionally misleading smokers with warnings on smokeless tobacco stating "This is not a safer alternative to smoking"? This is/was a lie, and the FDA can be proven to have known this at the time. Imagine all of the smokers who died of cancer who were discouraged from switching to safer nic sources if the FDA hadn't pushed this lie onto smokers. There's gotta be a case there.

Basically most states here in the US sold us smokers and ex smokers out to big tobacco when they agreed to the Master Settlement Agreement, whereby BT companies pay a ransom to the states to be allowed to keep selling their death products, the states reap millions and millions of dollars, and anyone who is stupid enough to smoke and get sick and or die, had their rights to sue the BT companies denied because the government agreed that their unscrupulous nefarious back door tobacco payoff tax was more important than public health and the well being of it's citizens. It's time to burn the whole thing down to the ground and start over...

 

[Tee_Jay]

So you can't sue big tobacco.. But what about the FDA? And i don't mean for "letting you smoke" - I mean for knowingly lying for all of those years about smokeless tobacco not being a safer alternative. To the point of actually putting warning labels on smokeless tobacco stating this. It sounds like your FDA is a really crooked operation..

 

[ENAUD]

So you can't sue big tobacco.. But what about the FDA? And i don't mean for "letting you smoke" - I mean for knowingly lying for all of those years about smokeless tobacco not being a safer alternative. To the point of actually putting warning labels on smokeless tobacco stating this. It sounds like your FDA is a really crooked operation..

I think those folks from the FDA should be tarred and feathered, then drawn and quartered on the evening news.

 

[Tee_Jay]

I think those folks from the FDA should be tarred and feathered, then drawn and quartered on the evening news.

Or short of that, a class action lawsuit might do them some good.. much easier said than done though - i realize that. What they're doing to vapers right now just seems so draconian. Is it a done deal? I hope we make out better up here.

 

[ENAUD]

Or short of that, a class action lawsuit might do them some good.. much easier said than done though - i realize that. What they're doing to vapers right now just seems so draconian. Is it a done deal? I hope we make out better up here.

I hope things do turn out better for you than they are looking for us right now. Best of luck!

 

[BreSha6869]

Things in Canada and provincially are going to change. Heavy taxation, no tasting bars or Vaping in vape stores, plain labels, the inability for consumers to source standalone nic, etc.

Not as far along as in the US, but one would be kidding themself if they think Canada's vaping industry wil look similar in 2 years as it does today.

It's not about the health effects/differences of vaping vs. Smoking, it's about lost tax revenue.

 

[JMC17]

I don't want to scare anyone but back in April I believe, here in Quebec they passed this bill of laws

Bill n°44 : An Act to bolster tobacco control - National Assembly of Québec

In short:

Bill 44 prohibits the testing of e-cigarettes in specialty shops, bans in-store display and promotion and forbids online sales of any vape product.

Luckily, they only prohibit online sales, not purchases so it is still legal for me to own them, use them and purchase them, just not from any Quebec-based vendor.

 

[Tee_Jay]

I'm in Ottawa, so right next to Gatineau. One of my favourite vape shops is there on the quebec side. I was in there shortly after that law was passed. They were bummed but all it meant for them was that they couldn't vape in the store anymore, nor sell to minors (which i'm sure they never did). I didn't know that on line sales are prohibited there though.

Local governments will all take their stances, but that will change when the fed regulates, and i think this is coming in the next 2 years at most. The question is whether they'll take an uneducated and putative approach like the FDA or if they'll follow their advertised mantra and make thoughtful, fact-based decisions for the betterment of public health. I suspect and hope they'll do the latter.

 

[dobroeutro]

Wow.. I just read a bunch of the FDA-related threads here.. I had no idea how dismal the legal/political situation is in the US around vaping. Our government is starting to pay attention too. However, we have a fairly recently elected government who ran on a platform of 'evidence-based decision making', And i truly believe (and hope) that when they begin regulating, they'll consider facts over the anti-everything-remotely-similar-to -smoking-(or-not-smoking)-tobacco hype that's going around. So if your fears over there come to fruition, and everything vape-related gets banned, at least there will (most likely) be legal companies operating in Canada to supply your black markets! Hey - we'll trade you guns for juice!

if i were you, i'd have quite a bone to pick with the FDA. One thing that comes to mind is this: There have been cases here where smokers have sued tobacco companies for saying that their products are harmless when those companies were proven to know differently. Has this happened in the US? The reason this is interesting is not to suggest you sue big tobacco, but couldn't someone sue the FDA? For intentionally misleading smokers with warnings on smokeless tobacco stating "This is not a safer alternative to smoking"? This is/was a lie, and the FDA can be proven to have known this at the time. Imagine all of the smokers who died of cancer who were discouraged from switching to safer nic sources if the FDA hadn't pushed this lie onto smokers. There's gotta be a case there.

NICOPURE LABS JOINS ELEVEN VAPING ADVOCACY GROUPS FOR CONSOLIDATED LAWSUIT

A lot is riding on this one...

 

[JMC17]

I didn't know that on line sales are prohibited there though.

Yeah =( I first noticed because I was looking to buy my uWell Crown Tank and it was sold out everywhere. I found that one website that still had it in store so I tried to buy it and they said they couldn't sell it to me because i'm from Quebec. I assumed they were based in Quebec and could sell it to the world but not in their own province.

After a long day of search though, I did find a place to buy it and I've had it for the past week, great tank!

One of my favourite vape shops is there on the quebec side. I was in there shortly after that law was passed. They were bummed but all it meant for them was that they couldn't vape in the store anymore, nor sell to minors (which i'm sure they never did).

My parents (I'm 28, don't worry) went on vacation in Nova Scotia and on their way, they stopped at a vape shop and were surprised that nothing was on display and the windows were frosted. When they finally arrived in Nova Scotia, they visited another vape shop which didn't have frosted windows and had everything out for display.

Upon their return, when I explained them about Bill 44 they immediately connected the dots and told me about their experience. I hope it doesn't become a trend, not only is it bad for Quebec in general (Less revenue) but it is bad for anyone trying to stop smoking cigarettes.

There's so many bad things in life that we consume every day, why are they so hell bent on stopping that one good thing. I don't mind regulations, making sure everything is safe but to literally ban the one thing that makes people quit smoking, that's insane!

 

[SunnyHours]

Yeah It sucks. I'm in Quebec...and it's more than just that.
Their windows have to be reflective/tinted/whatever so the poor children can't see the devil vapers inside. The ban makes it so every place you can't smoke, now you can't vape either. You are not allowed to smoke or vape <10 foot away from the gov buildings/schools/parks, and a multitude of other places...I get the no smoking in parks where kids play sports, but vaping? Come on...The media is trying (that's Big Pharma and Big Tobacco' Biggest Dream is to lump Vaping (good) and Smoking (bad) together so deeply in people's mind and subconscious that nobody will see the difference between vaping and smoking anymore lol

Truly Prayin That Doesn't Happen...EVER!
Cheers to vapers around the world!
And we hope that making ourself explodes with the goverments device to deactivate all PVs on the Planet!
IT's time to regroup!




Sorry but this ridiculousness is killing me. Makes me wonder what happens in labs, "Boss I've just found this compound that keeps cell from mutating and repairs mutated cells into healthy cells, I mean like it might be a cure!". BossL:"Bill, you know damn well that cures aren't revenue generators. *Pat on the back* Now, destroy this business property you've just created and go and get some cream for your hemorrhoids, they must be killing right about now hehe

 

[Cheallaigh]

tee... I get what you're saying... but I would say a large portion are not vaping any form of tobacco(yes I do know some are), that misconception is an issue right there. I don't vape tobacco, I vape vg/pg/flavouring/nic, lumping it with tobacco is an excuse to treat it like something it's not. you can get more nic really, from eating any nightshade based plant, than from vaping(though I have seen some us such high mgs I think they're really pod people, that breathe nic like we do air). potatoes just don't satisfy the cravings like a good vape!

btw, on average canucks last I checked, have 4 guns per person... we just happen to like long guns and hunting... I know we own 4 lol... and yes we have a moose calf tag and doe tag.

I don't mind regulation to a certain extent... we do not need idiots buying mechs as their first mods and blowing them or something else up because they don't know battery safety or even understand it. I was in a shop in barrie yesterday, mechs came up for discussion(hubby liked the look of one, he's not done his research like I have, as a mechanic he knows ohms law but still...), the owner after I flat out said "yeah... nope!" to my hubby, said they actually require people to write a small exam to establish they understand what they are getting into and know ohms law etc before they will sell one, period. I think he was being responsible both for himself and his business, but for a potential or current customer as well. not everyone will do this, and it's the same for juices, with the chemical that can cause popcorn lung or formalyhide(sp)... a responsible owner will test and make sure none of that is in the juices they sell, not everyone is like that though... I have known a owner of a series of shops for a few years, he even refuses to stock coil killers, despite the fact he could make a few extra bucks off of it.

I've already, since I've joined the forums and in a few other places months ago, seen quite a few non-smokers and parents of teens finding gear/buying.. because it's so "cool" to blow clouds. I get why the gov wants to hide it in shops... but the this issue would be better solved by treating them like a bar, if you're not legal drinking age in that province or territory, you cannot enter. after all, bars don't have to hide their stuff! sure make the windows reflective so teens can't see in, no worries, but don't limit the trying and visual... and gods don't try and kill the making of the tanks and mods industry like the fda is with prohibitive regs on development and approvals of new devices.

 

[SunnyHours]

tee... I get what you're saying... but I would say a large portion are not vaping any form of tobacco(yes I do know some are), that misconception is an issue right there. I don't vape tobacco, I vape vg/pg/flavouring/nic, lumping it with tobacco is an excuse to treat it like something it's not. you can get more nic really, from eating any nightshade based plant, than from vaping(though I have seen some us such high mgs I think they're really pod people, that breathe nic like we do air). potatoes just don't satisfy the cravings like a good vape!

btw, on average canucks last I checked, have 4 guns per person... we just happen to like long guns and hunting... I know we own 4 lol... and yes we have a moose calf tag and doe tag.

You actually just made me think about something else that bothers me...there are Herb vaporizers, granted they are mostly used for a specific flower I won't name but some people use them for tobacco. Why should they pay the health taxes charged to those who smoke their tobacco.
In the same way that when I had my Pastel Ball Python snake I had to give him mice and rats. And at the animal store, they charge me a lower price when it's for feeding than if it was to be used as a pet...(and both Boas, Pythons and Rats make excellent pets...*not in the same space please!*

P.S: I'm in Quebec and it boggles my mind that there are statistics that says there's 4 guns/1 Canadian in Canada. I don't own a gun, neither does anyone else in the family and only know 2-3 people who owns 1-2 guns each max I'm guessing so I'm really surprised...

Cheers everyone!

 

[JMC17]

I'm in Quebec and it boggles my mind that there are statistics that says there's 4 guns/1 Canadian in Canada. I don't own a gun, neither does anyone else in the family and only know 2-3 people who owns 1-2 guns each max I'm guessing so I'm really surprised..

Yeah, i'm sure most people that lives in cities don't own guns.
Personally, we have probably about 6 rifles because we used to hunt.
I loved to shoot when I was younger but it kinda faded away with time, now I have too many things to worry about.

They're not home defense weapons either.. They're doubled locked (locker+trigger lock) and the shells/ammo are stored away.

But yeah, to stay on topic, it boggles my mind how they're able to pass laws when there's no unbiased scientific data available. How can you pass a law when you know nothing!
I vape 0nic, there is no nic anywhere near me, I don't own any nicotine in any form and yet they label me as a tobacco smoker!? I've never even tasted a cigarette, or tobacco.
It's ridiculous that as someone who has never been in contact with tobacco or nicotine, I get treated as such.
I use vaping to help me stop smoking that flower SunnyHours was talking about, I even own one of those "medical" vaporizers. That flower is ruining my life and vaping has helped me more than anything else before. I even sought help from the gov a few years ago and long story short, they screwed me.

I have more energy, more memory and more awareness than I've had in more than 10 years.
All thanks to vaping.

My family literally can't get me to shut up and I used to be the most silent; passive zombie ever.

 

[Imfallen_Angel]

Yeah =( I first noticed because I was looking to buy my uWell Crown Tank and it was sold out everywhere. I found that one website that still had it in store so I tried to buy it and they said they couldn't sell it to me because i'm from Quebec. I assumed they were based in Quebec and could sell it to the world but not in their own province.

Actually, stores OUTSIDE of Quebec CAN sell and ship to Quebec.

Stores IN Quebec CAN'T sell online at all, cannot do any publicity or advertisements, etc. can't have unlocked displays, and can't assist clients much. All the can do is sell locally. From what I understand, they can't really help clients with builds, or explain much, they can only guide the clients to get information online.

Some people with stores got caught using their homes as the shipping address for their incoming stock, and were fined pretty badly over it, and set off a big panic a month ago about getting stuff shipped to Quebec. But it's ok to order and ship TO individuals living in Quebec, as long as it's for personal use and not to resell.

 

[Cheallaigh]

well I deal with one quebeqios and i'll cry if double trouble no longer exists...

 

[Hitmetwice]

We won't likely see any Fed regs in Canada for a long time unless of course it's with regard to the "medical" stuff.

They seem to want the provinces to deal with it. And it seems some provinces are okay letting municipalities deal with it through bylaws. This makes it confusing as there will be different rules on one side of the street to the other if it happens to be in a different town, city or municipality.

In Ontario they tried pushing through Bill 45 the Healthier Choices Act last year. Section 3 related to vaping. It would have grouped vaping with smoking even though we all know vaping is a more "healthy" choice. It would have made it more difficult for smokers to actually choose vaping, the more healthy choice.

In the end it didn't go thru on the whole, only the laws regarding sales to minors passed.

BUT....

I popped into a local glass shop as I'd heard the sell some e-cigs too, just to see what they had and check prices, just for fun.
I looked for 5 minutes or so, went to take a vape and was promptly told by the worker there that I could not vape in there because it was against the law. I respectfully told her I thought she was mistaken but would comply with her wishes.

Trouble is though, if they've been telling their customers for almost an entire year it is illegal how many of them think it's true? When I went home I printed off the actual laws that came in effect Jan. 1st from the Ontario gov website and took them in for her to read. Of course it only related to selling to minors and signage.

Problem is though (in my eyes) many shops will look at the most strict bylaws in the region (Ontario or nearby municipalities) and adhere to them, even though there may be no such restrictions where they do business.

End result is lots of misinformation making it harder for smokers thinking about switching to make a logical choice.

Bullcrap.

Cheers.

 

[Cheallaigh]

certain shops that cater to both crowds will not allow anything, because they are NOT allowed...

and umm hit? it's been announced:
Liberals to regulate e-cigarettes to help shield young people from addiction

 

[retired1]

Let's be careful here folks.

Why we don't allow drug talk

We're dancing around a topic that's not permitted here in some of these posts.

Considering the Health Minister is already on the record regarding e-cigarette use, I don't hold out much hope for common sense legislation out of Ottawa. Especially as she's spouting the same crapola that the FDA spouted just before they decimated the US vaping industry with the deeming regulations.