A question about threading 3/4" copper pipe

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duckie_44

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Thanks for the quick reply asdaq.......Would copper be softer than aluminum?......No caps involved in this.....collars .......I thought about brass but there is the weight of a brass nipple and collar..... plus the O.D. for a I.D. of 3/4"

I know I sound stupid but please note I'm a wood mechanic not a machinist......use simple words...(chit ?)....

Bye the bye...thanks for the tip on Omnimodels...(21/32" brass tube)
edit....Was that a yes or no on the Die.....:laugh:
duckie.........
 
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Scubabatdan

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Thanks for the quick reply asdaq.......Would copper be softer than aluminum?......No caps involved in this.....collars .......I thought about brass but there is the weight of a brass nipple and collar..... plus the O.D. for a I.D. of 3/4"

I know I sound stupid but please note I'm a wood mechanic not a machinist......use simple words...(chit ?)....

Bye the bye...thanks for the tip on Omnimodels...(21/32" brass tube)
edit....Was that a yes or no on the Die.....:laugh:
duckie.........

12 TPI is pretty coarse, I would go with 28 or 32, everything I thread in SS is 32TPI.
Dan
 

duckie_44

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12 TPI is pretty coarse, I would go with 28 or 32, everything I thread in SS is 32TPI.
Dan

Thanks....Dan......28 or 32 TPI it is.....The 12TPI was just a number picked at random .....

Now I will have to think about copper being too soft..... Plus these tap and die's aren't cheap.....

duckie.........
 

zoiDman

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Would anyone on this forum know if this Die.........7/8"-12-HSS special die(RD-7/8-12-D)......would do the job?

If so, the Die comes in 10 to 48 threads per inch......Any thoughts on that?

Thank you for any help..........duckie

No sure if that Die would work for you or not. Because I'm unsure of what you want the Threaded Pipe to do?

Maybe I haven't had Enough Coffee (actually No Maybe about it) but do you have Enough Wall Thickness to cut a 7/8 thread on a piece of 3/4" Pipe?

Also, what type of Thread Form do you want? Because a Common Unified Thread is 7/8-9UNC and 7/8-14UNF, I think.
 
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duckie_44

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Morning....zoiDman....I been drinking coffee all morning and I'm still confused....

Want the threaded pipe to do?......to carrier elec. (-) current......

Enough wall thickness?

3/4"copper pipe...7/8" O.D....Type K- .745"I.D.> L- .785"I.D.> M- .811"I.D.

Wall thickness.....K -.13"(3.302mm) L- .09"(2.286mm) M- .811"(1.625mm)
between K 1/8 & 9/64" L 5/64 & 3/32" M 1/16 & 5/64"

Thread form? This is the only die I have found that is 7/8" O.D. off the shelf.....

Any help on this matter is greatly appreciated......

duckie.............
 

zoiDman

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OK... I've had a few more Cups of Joe also.

Thread Form is the Geometry of the Thread. There are all kinds of Threads. Square Thread. Acme Threads. Pipe Threads. etc.

Unified Threads are Very Common here in the States. They have a Symmetric 60 degree Included Angle on the Thread and on the "Valley".

Of the Unified Threads, The Most Common are Unified Course (UNC) and Unified Fine (UNC). There are other Less Common Unified Threads like Ultra Fine (UNUF) but most of what you see in a Home Center or General Hardware Store is either UNC or UNF.

If I'm going to design something, and can use Any Thread Form, I'm going to chose Unified Threads because it is Easy to get Tap and Dies to cut the Threads.

And I'm going to chose Either UNC or UNF threads because I can Easily Buy things off the shelf that will screw onto the threads I cut.

In 7/8", Course Threads is 9 TPI (Threads per Inch), 7/8-9UNC. And Fine is 14 TPI, 7/8-14UNF.

So if I was doing it, and it didn’t matter what Thread Form I could use and Loading wasn’t a Factor, like in a Tube to carry Current, I would use 7/8-9UNC. Course threads are Slightly Easier to Cut. And Course Threads are found in More Common Applications so I might be able to use the Die for something else down the road.

Not saying that this is a Good or Bad Die. It was just the First thing that came up on Amazon.

Union Butterfield 2010(UNC) Carbon Steel Round Threading Die, Uncoated (Bright) Finish, 2" OD, 7/8"-9 Thread Size: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Hex Dies are Nice because you can turn them with a Wrench verses having to buy a Big Die Handle.

Union Butterfield 2025(UNC) Carbon Steel Hexagon Threading Die, Uncoated (Bright) Finish, 7/8"-9 Thread Size: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific


Once a Thread for is Chosen, Now I need to think about Drill or Stock Size.

For an External Thread, the OD of the Material you start with will become the Major Diam. And the Die will Cut the Minor Diam.

If you scan down this Chart you’ll see that for a 7/8-9UNC 2A Thread that the Major Diameter should be between .8731” and .8592”. (The larger the Major Diam, the Great the Thread Height, Stronger the Thread, Harder to Cut, Harder to Thread. Visa Versa for a Smaller Major Diam.)

But here's the Deal. A die Isn’t Designed to cut Diameters Much Larger than the Major Diam.

You Can't use a 7/8-9UNC on a Piece of Material that is say .950” Diam. And if you use it on a piece of Material that is Smaller than the Low Limit of the Major Diam., you Don’t get a very good thread.

Check out this Thread Chart for Reference.

Unified Screw Threads, Standard Series

There are numbers in your Post that I don’t understand. They sound like OEM or Vendor Numbers.

And I Don’t Trust Vendor Numbers. What you have to do is to get out a Mic and Physically Measure what you are Actually going to Thread.

Hope some of this Helps or at least, makes some sense.

BTW – When you do cut your Thread, Don’t forget to Chamfer the End of your Material to form a Lead Thread. So many people Forget or Don’t know to do this. And then wonder why it is so Hard to Get the Thread Started.
 
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bapgood

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I have messed around a little trying to cut threads in plumbing copper pipe and it's kind of a pain. Plumbing pipe in my experience hasn't been very true to round, plus its very soft and grabby, and since its typically pretty thin wall I usually end up crunching the tube somehow.

You might have better luck with purchasing some copper tube from somewhere like online metals. I believe the copper tube they sell is a different alloy (harder and less grabby), more wall thickness options (IIRC), and would assume more to true to round.

I have been meaning to order some to try on home built Bear Brass type mech mod, but haven't got to it yet so its kind of speculation at this point.
 

duckie_44

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Thanks....zoi.....And yes most of that when over my head....but that's not a surprise ....

The measurements on the copper pipe are off a chart....The figures I get with my cheap digital caliper from HF is all over the place(no surprise there) .8780 to .8735 depending on where you put the caliper on pipe....

throw out the " between " numbers .......The Die I was looking at was at www.victornet.com > Dies >Special Pitch Dies 17/32 to 1-1/8....

Again ......thanks for the help...... and the chart.....

duckie
 

zoiDman

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I have messed around a little trying to cut threads in plumbing copper pipe and it's kind of a pain. Plumbing pipe in my experience hasn't been very true to round, plus its very soft and grabby, and since its typically pretty thin wall I usually end up crunching the tube somehow.

You might have better luck with purchasing some copper tube from somewhere like online metals. I believe the copper tube they sell is a different alloy (harder and less grabby), more wall thickness options (IIRC), and would assume more to true to round.

I have been meaning to order some to try on home built Bear Brass type mech mod, but haven't got to it yet so its kind of speculation at this point.

Yeah, plumbing copper pipe isn't really designed to be Threaded. And threading ANY thin wall tube be hand can be tough. The best thing if you have to thread thin wall tubing is to put a Rod inside the tube to support it while cutting the threads.

Trouble is, just like the Outside Diam is Out of Round, so is the Inside Diam. Sometimes its a Pain to get a wooden dowel into the tube. And many times it can be even Harder to get it out.
 
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zoiDman

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Thanks....zoi.....And yes most of that when over my head....but that's not a surprise ....

The measurements on the copper pipe are off a chart....The figures I get with my cheap digital caliper from HF is all over the place(no surprise there) .8780 to .8735 depending on where you put the caliper on pipe....

throw out the " between " numbers .......The Die I was looking at was at www.victornet.com > Dies >Special Pitch Dies 17/32 to 1-1/8....

Again ......thanks for the help...... and the chart.....

duckie

.8780" ~ .8735" isn't that bad. Not that bad at all.

Like I said, you can cut Any TPI you want. But I like to use TPI that will work with off the self stuff if possible. It all depends on what you want the thread to do. And more so, how many threads you can cut.

If I only have .200" of Threadable length. 9 TPI isn't going to work to well.

BTW - Did you notice the Category you said you found that die in? Special Pitch Dies.
 

duckie_44

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.8780" ~ .8735" isn't that bad. Not that bad at all.

Like I said, you can cut Any TPI you want. But I like to use TPI that will work with off the self stuff if possible. It all depends on what you want the thread to do. And more so, how many threads you can cut.

If I only have .200" of Threadable length. 9 TPI isn't going to work to well.

BTW - Did you notice the Category you said you found that die in? Special Pitch Dies.

zoi........Special Pitch Dies..?....sorry you lost me......

I guessing about 5/16 to 3/8" on the thread length....

To answer Bapgood on this post....You , Asdaq and you zoi or more than likely right about cooper pipe being too soft...

Looked at onlinemetals and found Brass (or alum) tubing .875 O.D. x .745 I.D. with a wall of .065 <( is that measurement right?)

The problem is what to use as collar?.....Closest thing listed is 1"O.D. x .87 I.D. .87" would that work zoi?

duckie......
 

bapgood

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zoi........Special Pitch Dies..?....sorry you lost me......

I guessing about 5/16 to 3/8" on the thread length....

To answer Bapgood on this post....You , Asdaq and you zoi or more than likely right about cooper pipe being too soft...

Looked at onlinemetals and found Brass (or alum) tubing .875 O.D. x .745 I.D. with a wall of .065 <( is that measurement right?)

The problem is what to use as collar?.....Closest thing listed is 1"O.D. x .87 I.D. .87" would that work zoi?

duckie......

What are you trying to make? (sorry if I missed it)

Most tube mods use internal threads on the main body with the top and bottom pieces threading into the main tube.

I'm lucky enough to have a lathe, so I have a little more leeway.
 

zoiDman

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zoi........Special Pitch Dies..?....sorry you lost me......

...

I was commenting on the link you posted.

"The Die I was looking at was at www.victornet.com > Dies >Special Pitch Dies 17/32 to 1-1/8...."

Man... your going the Wrong way. I would rather cut threads in Copper than I would in Brass. LOL. Brass Alloys is Very "Gummy"

Collar? Now you Lost Me?
 

zoiDman

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...

I guessing about 5/16 to 3/8" on the thread length....

...

I forgot to mention...

If you go with 12 TPI that the Pitch of the thread will be 1/12 = .0833"

And if the Thread length is going to be .375", then .375"/.0833" = 4.5 Threads.

Since at least the First Thread is a Lead Thread, is 3 complete threads going to be enough?

This is a Good Example where More TPI might be Needed or Desired
 

duckie_44

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bapgood.....zoiDman......Did we just pass each other on street, in the middle of the night.....A dark night

My fault guys.......The only mods that I make are pipe mods.....What I have in mind.....is a pipe with interchangeable bowls.....

I need some kind of collar in the base of pipe.....I will only have about 3/4" of depth for the collar - half has to be unthreaded..

The 7/8" part of the tube matches a EPM's switch.... The 3/4" part a 18mm battery.....The tube carrying the ground(-) from the switch to bottom part of the pipe has to do with a Kick.....

zoi......Sorry man.....I don't know from special to not special......In my younger days I used to work on drilling rigs in the west-Texas oilfields..... All I know about metal is when it hits you on the head, it hurts.....

You guys have spent a lot of time today with this idiot child....I appreciate it....

duckie.......
 

duckie_44

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Sorry no CAD Drawing....or Bar Napkin....Don't drink no more.....:D

2vj3k9v.jpg


I have thought about press fit....bapgood.....just would have liked to use threads ....maybe not to be at this time.....

Thanks to everyone that posted....I feel like I got free education....It was free...right?...right?

duckie.....
 
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