A question for all you E-mixologists.

[knotin1]

How do you go about creating a new more complex mix? Meaning do you just make a small batch then taste. Make another batch with changes to percentages then taste. Then repeat until you have it dialed in?

I am thinking a better way, but more mathematically challenging, would be to make a large batch. Taste. Figure out what needs to go down in percentage and what needs to go up. This could be done by adding PG/VG/NIC to bring down some flavors, and then just add more flavoring of the ones you want to up. The only downfall I can see is that you may start out with a 30ml batch and have that grow to a 100ml batch that ends up failing anyway.

The key to making a reproducible juice is to know your exact percentages.

What I tried last few days with a new mix, I will call Sticky Monkey, is start out with a 20ml mix with low percentages. Then adjusted the flavors up. Just curious how others seem to do it once they get into the more complex mixes.



Thanks.

 

[zoiDman]

How do you go about creating a new more complex mix? Meaning do you just make a small batch then taste. Make another batch with changes to percentages then taste. Then repeat until you have it dialed in?

...

Making a "Complex" blend kind be Very Difficult. It is Going to Involve Multiple Flavors.

But as you Mentioned, finding the Percentages that you Like and Work together can be an Trial in Patience.

What some People do is to Dial in Each Individual Flavor in the Desire mg and PG|VG ratio letting it Fully Steep for 4~5 Days. Then they work on the Proportions of Each Flavor for the Final Blend.

The Big Example of this is that there Isn't as Much steeping time required for the Final Blend.

 

[boomerdude]

Sounds like your on the right track. The key is to experiment and by all means write everything down. You never know when an accident becomes a new Boba's Bounty.

 

[knotin1]

Making a "Complex" blend kind be Very Difficult. It is Going to Involve Multiple Flavors.

But as you Mentioned, finding the Percentages that you Like and Work together can be an Trial in Patience.

What some People do is to Dial in Each Individual Flavor in the Desire mg and PG|VG ratio letting it Fully Steep for 4~5 Days. Then they work on the Proportions of Each Flavor for the Final Blend.

The Big Example of this is that there Isn't as Much steeping time required for the Final Blend.

So lets take a 4 flavor mix. To make things easy lets say each one you like independently at 25%. You make each one at 25% and add them altogether to make a 20ml batch. You now have a mix with 4 flavors at 6.25% each. Taste it. Everything seems good, but one flavor is a little weak. Then add more of that flavor and recalculate. Seems easy.

 

[patkin]

Truthfully, I don't think I fit the mold but just do what works for me. I start with a 5 or 10 ml bottle and fill it with my preferred pg/vg mix and then just add drops right from the flavoring bottles and just record the drops I used. The only time I actually measure per se is if I have a flavoring comes in a dram bottle with no dropper and have to use a syringe with. If I hit the "right" mixture of ingredients, then I might get down to precise measuring using a calculator but, so far, even with my ADV I haven't had to do that. But, I can't share recipes of course because not everyone has the same bottles I do for drop sizes. However, I've found that my "drop" method is pretty forgiving as far as getting a bit more or less of particular ingredients.

Edit: that first sentence is misleading... I don't "fill" the bottle with pg/vg... I leave space for flavorings first and nic later if I like the mix. I'm just not a fiddly or perfection type... I just want to geterdone and my way tells me if the flavorings I choose are going to work together sparing myself all that precision in the process.

 

[Stosh]

I would get an approximation first before making a large batch. I mix small bottles of individual flavors to get the correct percentage needed for good flavor. Then mix the resulting juices in various combinations and amounts in a tank to try out. Dumping a tankful of a "failure" isn't as hard to do as dumping a 30 mL bottle.

Some flavors that would seem to be perfect together just do not work, or a different manufacturer's flavor (with the same name) works better in a particular mix. Once I find the flavors that work together, with a approximate ratio, I can fine tune those flavors mixed again in a small batch until it's to my liking.

 

[zoiDman]

So lets take a 4 flavor mix. To make things easy lets say each one you like independently at 25%. You make each one at 25% and add them altogether to make a 20ml batch. You now have a mix with 4 flavors at 6.25% each. Taste it. Everything seems good, but one flavor is a little weak. Then add more of that flavor and recalculate. Seems easy.

For a 4 Flavor Final Mix, you would Make 4 Independent Batches of Each Flavor and Perfect Each One Separately.

Then, you would Mix a Small amount of Each of the 4 Finished e-liquids Together. Adjusting the Amount of each of the 4 Finished e-Liquids to Taste.

 

[zmbgzus]

I mix 3 ml bottles (already have for testers) individual flavors @ 10% flavor for simple variables. After calculating the strength of each, mix equal % of each flavor for cocktails. Tone up or down from there.

 

[knotin1]

For a 4 Flavor Final Mix, you would Make 4 Independent Batches of Each Flavor and Perfect Each One Separately.

Then, you would Mix a Small amount of Each of the 4 Finished e-Liquids Together. Adjusting the Amount of each of the 4 Finished e-Liquids to Taste.

I mix 3 ml bottles (already have for testers) individual flavors @ 10% flavor for simple variables. After calculating the strength of each, mix equal % of each flavor for cocktails. Tone up or down from there.

Good stuff!! Thx.

*Shuffles off to lab cave*

 

[knotin1]

*turns around and shuffles back to mac*


Help with equation. Lets say 3 base flavors all at 10%.


I make a batch using 30% of 1, 50% of 2 and 20% of flavor 3. What is the formula used to figure out the percentages in final mix?

Thanks.

Would it be
Flavor 1 10% of 30% = 3%
Flavor 2 10% of 50% = 5%
Flavor 3 10% of 20% = 2%

 

[HeadInClouds]

I mix 3 ml bottles (already have for testers) individual flavors @ 10% flavor for simple variables. After calculating the strength of each, mix equal % of each flavor for cocktails. Tone up or down from there.

That's my method, too. But I usually mix at 3% for a first shot (using most Flavour Art, pretty strong ones). When I find the standalone flavor percent that's right for me, I write it on the bottle.

I like to try somewhat random 2-flavor or 3-flavor combos. I write down ones I've enjoyed. When I notice a pair or trio with a common flavor, I might try them together. That often gives me a good start on a 4-6 flavor recipe.

It's a head-start if you have some great flavors that are already "complex." FA Tiramisu is one of mine (coffee, chocolate, vanilla, cake). Adding just one or two touches to that is easy, and often results in something tasty.

If you have a favorite flavor or two, it's worth it to try other vendors' versions of them. Once you've found the very best version of your favorites, you can build your recipes around them. I have a few favorites like coffee, creamy vanilla, and caramel. I vaped so many to find the best versions for me - but now I use them in most of my recipes.

 

[vapero]

this is what I do...
when ever I get new flavors I mix them individually in my nic vg/pg, vape a few minutes of each and then figure out which flavors would benefit working together and at what percentage than began mixing those 5ml juices... for example I loved juicy peach so that was going to be my dominant flavor, liked the crispiness of apple but not that much of the flavor, so I just added a little bit, l liked the tangyness of the mango so it went at a higher percentage than the apple but less than the peach and so on....

 

[zoiDman]

*turns around and shuffles back to mac*


Help with equation. Lets say 3 base flavors all at 10%.


I make a batch using 30% of 1, 50% of 2 and 20% of flavor 3. What is the formula used to figure out the percentages in final mix?

Thanks.

Would it be
Flavor 1 10% of 30% = 3%
Flavor 2 10% of 50% = 5%
Flavor 3 10% of 20% = 2%

Correct me if I'm Wrong, but if ALL 3 Bases are at 10% Flavoring, then it Doesn't Matter what Amount of Each you Mix Together, you are Always going to End Up with 10% Flavoring of the Final Mix.

---

But Yes... Your Formula looks Right.

 

[knotin1]

Correct me if I'm Wrong, but if ALL 3 Bases are at 10% Flavoring, then it Doesn't Matter what Amount of Each you Mix Together, you are Always going to End Up with 10% Flavoring of the Final Mix.

---

But Yes... Your Formula looks Right.

Yes, the final "total" flavor will still be 10%(10% flavor and 90% base) What I an trying to figure out is how much of the 10% is for each flavor. That way I can replicate the recipe without having to start with 3 flavors mixed at 10% and then mixing them together.

Lets say I really like a mix I made using three flavors. The way I made it was:

Take flavor base A @ 10% and put 10ml in a bottle. Add flavor base B @ 10% and put 20ml in the bottle. Take flavor C @ 10% and add 30ml to the bottle. I now have 60ml of juice. If I want to replicate the juice from scratch without having to mix 3 seperate bases, I would need to know the percentages of flavors.

Flavor Base A =16.6666% = 1.6666%
Flavor Base B =33.3333% = 3.33333%
Flavor Base C =50% = 5%

So my recipe for the final mix would be 1.6% flavor A, 3.3% Flavor B and 5% flavor C. Allowing me to make a bottle from scratch and share the recipe rather then having to start with 3 flavors mixed in three bottles, then mixed together.

 

[Stosh]

Yes, the final "total" flavor will still be 10%(10% flavor and 90% base) <snip>

Flavor Base A =16.6666% = 1.6666%
Flavor Base B =33.3333% = 3.33333%
Flavor Base C =50% = 5%

So my recipe for the final mix would be 1.6% flavor A, 3.3% Flavor B and 5% flavor C. Allowing me to make a bottle from scratch and share the recipe rather then having to start with 3 flavors mixed in three bottles, then mixed together.

You're right on the money, whatever ratio you add the tester in, is the same ratio for the flavors. This assumes all the testers are mixed at 10%. If one is mixed at 5%, then the flavoring for the recipe would have 1/2 of that flavoring percentage.

 

[flowerpots]

this is what I do...
when ever I get new flavors I mix them individually in my nic vg/pg, vape a few minutes of each and then figure out which flavors would benefit working together and at what percentage than began mixing those 5ml juices... for example I loved juicy peach so that was going to be my dominant flavor, liked the crispiness of apple but not that much of the flavor, so I just added a little bit, l liked the tangyness of the mango so it went at a higher percentage than the apple but less than the peach and so on....

I started this way, by testing each individual flavor both on my tongue mixed with pg and on a 510 atty. I started at 5% for TFA flavors. I think you have to know a flavor individually before you can know what it's going to pair well with. I am still working on my first set to see where each flavor shines, at what % as a standalone flavor.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Lets say I really like a mix I made using three flavors. The way I made it was:

Take flavor base A @ 10% and put 10ml in a bottle. Add flavor base B @ 10% and put 20ml in the bottle. Take flavor C @ 10% and add 30ml to the bottle. I now have 60ml of juice. If I want to replicate the juice from scratch without having to mix 3 seperate bases, I would need to know the percentages of flavors.

Flavor Base A =16.6666% = 1.6666%
Flavor Base B =33.3333% = 3.33333%
Flavor Base C =50% = 5%

So my recipe for the final mix would be 1.6% flavor A, 3.3% Flavor B and 5% flavor C. Allowing me to make a bottle from scratch and share the recipe rather then having to start with 3 flavors mixed in three bottles, then mixed together.

The Math looks Pretty Sound to Me.

Working with Percentages is, I think, the Easiest way to go. Since a Percentage is "Unit Less", you can apply your Base Formula to Any Size Finished Volume you want.

You can also apply a "Scalar" to the Total Flavoring percentage to easily Increases or Decrease the overall Flavor Strength.

So if the Do a Mix and it Taste Good, but you would like it to just be Stronger, you can Boost all the Flavors by say 125%.

 

[Stosh]

And another Mad Scientist is born....welcome to the dark side we have flavors....

 

[zoiDman]

And another Mad Scientist is born....welcome to the dark side we have flavors....

Yeah... You know you're a Budding Mad Scientist when this is what you Ask for on your Birthday...

Micro Glassware Set Micro Glassware Set : United Nuclear , Scientific Equipment & Supplies

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

I just spend a lot of money screwing things up till I get it right...

Actually I keep lots of notes, make lots of different e-liquids. I then mix the completed e-liquids together in various percentages, say a nice chocolate e-liquid and a nice mint, more mint or more chocolate, it isn't so hard getting the basics, but fine tuning is the most difficult thing in the world to nail down.

By way of example I was vaping a particular flavor I made and got it down to 1/3 of a tank on my genesis, I had to go pick up one of the kids so I grabbed a different flavor to top it off a bit of a swirl and BAM it was like magic...holy crap this is freaking nice. So the 2/3 + 1/3 mixture will become a new flavor for me to work on; with some 9 different flavors used to make it, I'm thinking it will be a fun one for sure.

Mostly though I just screw stuff up, and spend far more money than I should.

Maurice