A suggestion for Halo

[jlarsen]

It seems that some more frugal vapers and DIYers aren't thrilled about the higher costs required to experience the uniqueness of Halo flavors.

So I thought of what I think might be a good solution. Feel free to use it.

Halo could sell flavoring kits. Basically meet the consumer in the middle, cost wise - and attract a broader market. My thought is this:

Halo could sell a flavor kit (for any Halo flavor) which could be mixed with 100mg/ml nicotine base, and the DIYers favorite ratio of PG and VG, not Halo's standard percentages (to protect the coveted PG/VG ratio of Halo liquid) to produce 120 ml of liquid in a Halo flavor.

120 ml of Halo juice costs $80. Halo could sell the kit for say $25, compared to what, about $5 worth of candy flavoring (a semi-educated guess since I don't DIY much), still a good markup for Halo on the flavor (I would think). The DIYer could produce the 120ml of liquid for (I'm guessing) about $50 (for 24mg/ml liquid).

The kit could include the flavor, strength adjusted for the nicotine strength the DIYer is intending to produce, a recipe stating the amount of 100mg/ml (or other nic levels) nicotine base and combined PG/VG required to complete the liquid, a disclaimer stating that if USP grade ingredients aren't used the juice won't be up to Halo standards and that Halo isn't responsible for inconsistencies caused by mixing mistakes made by the DIYer, and maybe some labels and/or bottles (probably an extra charge for the bottles).

 

[nyabzns]

I see people complain about the cost and I don't see it. Before Halo lowered there prices shipping was included and price wise I come out about the same as purchasing inferior liquids. The 19.99 price seems more than a good price when comparing the quality of juice to other makers. So Halo cost perhaps a few cents more, depending on who and what type of liquid your comparing too, this stuff is like going to the Chevrolet dealer and the salesman catching you eyeing the Chevy Cobalt says "You can buy that for $13,000 but for $13,200 you can get this ZR1 Corvette.
Odds are no one would complain about the extra $200 the vette set them back. I'd be willing to venture anyone complaining about the cost of Halo hasn't tried it. The comparison in just cost is minimal and probably just a few cents once you add shipping. The quality of the stuff is that good. I don't think you'll see Halo selling kits for people to attempt to do what they do rather awesomely.

 

[jlarsen]

I see people complain about the cost and I don't see it. Before Halo lowered there prices shipping was included and price wise I come out about the same as purchasing inferior liquids. The 19.99 price seems more than a good price when comparing the quality of juice to other makers. So Halo cost perhaps a few cents more, depending on who and what type of liquid your comparing too, this stuff is like going to the Chevrolet dealer and the salesman catching you eyeing the Chevy Cobalt says "You can buy that for $13,000 but for $13,200 you can get this ZR1 Corvette.
Odds are no one would complain about the extra $200 the vette set them back. I'd be willing to venture anyone complaining about the cost of Halo hasn't tried it. The comparison in just cost is minimal and probably just a few cents once you add shipping. The quality of the stuff is that good. I don't think you'll see Halo selling kits for people to attempt to do what they do rather awesomely.

The extra cost of Halo is reasonable and justified when you consider the uniqueness of the flavors, the quality of the ingredients, and the extra R&D Halo puts into developing them - on that point I cannot argue.

You are also correct that most people that complain about the cost haven't tried them. A more cost effective Halo option could open up the market to people who otherwise might not try them, and maybe give loyal, heavy Halo vapers a better option for getting their favorite Halo juices in bulk.

The comparison in cost is really not that minimal. Take the Top Vapor line of juices sold at Mad Vapes for example. The cost, with or without shipping costs included, is less than half the price of Halo (7.39 for 30ml), and that is for USA made juices, not the Chinese ones they also sell.

Of course Top Vapor juice is not as high quality as Halo (IMO - though I do like them, and others as well), nor are the flavors as unique, and I'm willing to bet they do what the other cheaper juice makers do and use off-the-shelf candy flavorings, not made from scratch like Halo. But the fact remains, most people that aren't willing to try Halo because of the price are paying half as much per milliliter, maybe less than that if they buy questionable Chinese junk. Some of the die-hard Halo critics are paying 1/3 the price. Those that want to try it, don't want to end up with a 30 ml bottle of a juice they don't like, and really don't want to pay $1.00/ml for the 5ml bottles, plus shipping, just to try it. It might also wrangle in some DIYers that otherwise wouldn't try Halo. Some Halo fans are also going to buy other juices more often (when funds are low), than they would if there were a cheaper option for Halo. Even a larger quantity than 30ml, at a lower price per ml would probably keep more customers coming back.

Compared to more premium USA made juices, such as Johnson Creek, which also has unique flavors, doesn't use off-the-shelf candy flavoring (that I know of), and puts significant R&D into their creations, YES, Halo is at best a few cents more expensive. But if Halo could offer their juices at a lower cost through a kit of some sort, they could undercut those other premium manufacturers which don't.

IMO.

Sometimes you feel like a slice of homemade apple pie ala mode (Halo), and sometimes you just want a bag of skittles (everybody else).

I'm not objecting to Halo's prices, though I'd buy more from them if it cost less (or if I had more money) - but I do think it would help them increase their market.

It's only a matter of time before they are competing with RJR and Phillip Morris... and at the rate things are going, probably a line of Facebook/Microsoft e-juices...

 

[garyinco]

Flavoring
+
Knowhow
+
Supplies

 

[player30]

Halo may not be the juice for the masses. What Halo does have is a consistent juice that tastes the same from bottle to bottle. On the ECF site, I have read complaints about the price, but only a few posts have been about not liking Halo e-liquid. Halo is a quality juice unmatched by anything else I have tried.

And Halo is a business with a goal to make a profit. Making a profit involves more than just throwing some liquids together and slapping a label on it. Think about all of the juice that was poured out when Halo was coming up with its new beta flavors. They don't just happen like some of the juices out there.

I know nothing about Halo other than someone named J B does something. But what he does is genious in a bottle. He may not be known to the masses (the masses don't use e-cigs and the masses don't know what Halo is), but when most of the juice vendors go out of business, Halo will still be standing. In fact I would put money that were PM or RJR to get in the e-cig business (not happening anytime soon) that Halo would be bought out for hundreds of million dollars (yes, hundreds of million).

Imagine the crappy postings that would come on this forum if Halo were to start selling concentrate for someone to screw up their own version of what they once found in a blue bottle.

Halo offers sample sizes for people to try. And there are people that will choose not to pay $19.99 for a bottle of juice. I have bought Halo and had it sent to other people, and I have sent my Halo to other people. But that is because I believe it is a superior product; not because I believe it is the cheapest liquid on the market. I have tried (and will continue to try) other juices, but no vendor other than Halo has ever gotten a repeat juice order from me.

 

[lindam]

It's still way cheaper than analogues

 

[jlarsen]

Flavoring
+
Knowhow
+
Supplies

And yet none of that will ever give you the ability to come close to recreating one of Halo's flavors. Not saying that you can't make a lot of good flavors that way, just that they won't be Halo flavors.

 

[jlarsen]

Halo may not be the juice for the masses. What Halo does have is a consistent juice that tastes the same from bottle to bottle. On the ECF site, I have read complaints about the price, but only a few posts have been about not liking Halo e-liquid. Halo is a quality juice unmatched by anything else I have tried.

And Halo is a business with a goal to make a profit. Making a profit involves more than just throwing some liquids together and slapping a label on it. Think about all of the juice that was poured out when Halo was coming up with its new beta flavors. They don't just happen like some of the juices out there.

I know nothing about Halo other than someone named J B does something. But what he does is genious in a bottle. He may not be known to the masses (the masses don't use e-cigs and the masses don't know what Halo is), but when most of the juice vendors go out of business, Halo will still be standing. In fact I would put money that were PM or RJR to get in the e-cig business (not happening anytime soon) that Halo would be bought out for hundreds of million dollars (yes, hundreds of million).

Imagine the crappy postings that would come on this forum if Halo were to start selling concentrate for someone to screw up their own version of what they once found in a blue bottle.

Halo offers sample sizes for people to try. And there are people that will choose not to pay $19.99 for a bottle of juice. I have bought Halo and had it sent to other people, and I have sent my Halo to other people. But that is because I believe it is a superior product; not because I believe it is the cheapest liquid on the market. I have tried (and will continue to try) other juices, but no vendor other than Halo has ever gotten a repeat juice order from me.

I agree with 95% of that, but I also think that if Halo provided a concentrate, they could keep their trade secrets proprietary and still turn a profit, it isn't as if they would be disclosing the chemicals used for the actual flavorings. I also think that if they provided the recipe for how much PG/VG mixture to use, the DIYer would be able to replicate the flavor quite well, and Halo wouldn't even have to give up their proprietary PG/VG ratio, which I assume hovers near the mystical 70/30 mark anyway.

Anybody can get USP grade VG/PG, usually locally. It is the flavoring that can't be duplicated without a degree in chemistry and theft of their proprietary information, or a million dollars worth of analyzing equipment.

I agree though, there would be some MINOR effects to the consistency due to variation in the quality of the nic juice used, and operator error - that's where the disclaimer would come in.

It isn't as if I really expected Halo to take my suggestion and run with it, it was just a thought.

 

[jlarsen]

Flavoring
+
Knowhow
+
Supplies

Just a guess, but I'm assuming you have either A: never tried Halo juices, or B: don't like their flavors.

Anyone should be able to appreciate the fact that they put more time and money into developing and refining their flavors than other juice makers, and are able to create juices with unique complex flavors no one else can duplicate, clean juices that are easy on the atomizer.

No offense to totallywicked, but their flavorings appear to be more of the same overcolored, candystore flavors that many cheap juice manufacturers use, maybe with the exception of the tobacco flavors. I've never tried them, maybe they are quite good, but I'm willing to bet that nowhere near the same cost and care went into their development that Halo puts into their proprietary blends.

If you don't like Halo's juices, you don't like their juices. Taste is subjective. If you like what you're vaping, that's all that really matters.

Some people can't appreciate a good steak, or a finely crafted microbrew, but those that can understand why they cost more than corndogs and coors.

 

[garyinco]

Just a guess, but I'm assuming you have either A: never tried Halo juices, or B: don't like their flavors.

Anyone should be able to appreciate the fact that they put more time and money into developing and refining their flavors than other juice makers, and are able to create juices with unique complex flavors no one else can duplicate, clean juices that are easy on the atomizer.

No offense to totallywicked, but their flavorings appear to be more of the same overcolored, candystore flavors that many cheap juice manufacturers use, maybe with the exception of the tobacco flavors. I've never tried them, maybe they are quite good, but I'm willing to bet that nowhere near the same cost and care went into their development that Halo puts into their proprietary blends.

If you don't like Halo's juices, you don't like their juices. Taste is subjective. If you like what you're vaping, that's all that really matters.

Some people can't appreciate a good steak, or a finely crafted microbrew, but those that can understand why they cost more than corndogs and coors.

You obviously didn't read the second link.

And your smart-assed last paragraph is a put off. So I won't engage in further conversation.

 

[jlarsen]

You obviously didn't read the second link.

And your smart-assed last paragraph is a put off. So I won't engage in further conversation.

You're right, I only glanced at your second link, and thought it was a more general DIY thread, didn't see it was Halo related. Sorry.

So I just looked at it again, a lot more closely. So either Halo uses Patriot Range flavorings in their juices, re-branding them, mixed, at a high price under a different name, or Totally Wicked gets their flavoring (patriot range) from Halo and sells those flavors under a different name, but nobody knows for sure who is selling to who.

Instead of posting a link to a 14 page thread, and expecting someone to read to page 12 to finally find what you were getting at, a clue would have been nice. The first 10 or so pages lead me to believe that the patriot range flavors were, in some (but not all) people's opinions, similar or maybe even the same thing as Halo's flavors.

Even still, I only see three TW flavors that are allegedly the same as three of Halo's flavors. Maybe Halo is the test market, before they rebrand the flavors to other suppliers. I wouldn't mind DIYing Torque, and my brother would want Smooth 8, but I'm more interested in Menthol Ice and Tribeca.

 

[garyinco]

My strong suspicion is Halo sells to TW. I don't buy anything else from TW.

Halo is the only juice I've ever re-ordered, other than one flavor from BWB. I've re-ordered from them once, but for Halo - I've reordered so many times in the past year, I've lost count. Torque is my favorite, but I also like Freedom. I've recommended Halo to so many people here on ECF...

I posted the long link because I didn't want to hurt Halo's sales. Possibly only the insistent DIYers or those heading that direction. Crap, we all may be doing that if the laws and regulations get squirrely down the road. I will not quit because the govt tells me to, I will vape more.

I can't wait to try the Prime15.

 

[fumama]

If there is any link, then it looks to me like this is a no-brainer:

10-21-2009
Halo E-liquid Introduced

2-14-2010
Patriot Range Introduced

Totally Wicked = UK Company with "Patriot Range" USA Made Juice
Halo = USA Made Juice

 

[player30]

Sounds like we got a conspiracy theory!!!

 

[garyinco]

Sounds like we got a conspiracy theory!!!

Can we shelve it until Sunday. The Judgement Day one is too good to waste.

Top ten things you're likely to hear this Sunday, May 22nd
10. Boy, I bet you are ...... you sold your house
9. Since you already have all that stuff packed up, why not give some of it to Goodwill?
8. Fail.
7. Man, I guess you just didn't believe enough.
6. Hi, if you died today, do you know where you'd spend eternity?
5. Well, at least you don't have to go to church today.
4. Well, looks like Nietzsche was right.
3. I'm sorry, I'd feel bad for you but I'm laughing too hard.
2. Was the Kool-Aid good?
1. Hey, at least Janet Reno never showed up and ruined your party.

 

[Doomed!]

Honestly, if they just offered a size between 5ml and 30ml, that might open their market up a bit. Doesn't cost halo a dime, but I think a lot of people would buy a 15ml bottle for, say, $12-13. It's a good in-between price point. That being said, the $20 price tag isn't bad for 30ml.

 

[emonty]

just ordered some new Halo, the shipping to Europa does not put me off, if you want the best, you have to pay the price!!
I don't use it the whole day, I vape it on special occasions...every day ;-)

 

[pmos69]

There are EU distributors for HALO.
Unfortunately, their pricing is such that it's cheaper to order directly from the US. Shipping and all.
(at least with the current exchange ratio)

 

[emonty]

Yes, I know, thxs. four 30 ml bottles, including shipping for 62 euro's...including the 10% discount for a GREAT experience!!!

There are EU distributors for HALO.
Unfortunately, their pricing is such that it's cheaper to order directly from the US. Shipping and all.
(at least with the current exchange ratio)

 

[nicnac]

How about giving the option of picking the flavors on the sample pack?
That's what stopping me from trying halo. I don't like menthol.